Are we our own mother?

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Are we our own mother?

Post by KingdomSeeker on Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:28 am

Ok, Well, I came across this and i...I'm just not quite sure I understand something...maybe you guys could help me out.

Galatians 4:26
"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

Revelation 21:9-10
"Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,


"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her" (Ephesians 5:25). "

So Jesus, Loves the Church, and the Marriage, will be between Jesus and The Bride.
Ok that i understand.

Heavenly Jerusalem is also Called the Bride. Ok, understandable.

What i never noticed, (which is odd becasue I have read Galatians a few times) if that Paul calls Heavenly Jerusalem the "Mother of us all"


So whats up with this? I know its spiritual language. And not physical.

But its still a bit Odd no?

Heavenly Jerusalem, is our mother. However its also the bride.
The Lamb(Jesus) will mary said bride, who are the saints. Yes?

Just a little stummped...I think im getting it, but...anyway what do you guys think?

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Re: Are we our own mother?

Post by KingdomSeeker on Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:40 am

Or, is Jesus coming back to get his BODY and take us to the bride, New Jerusalem, where we will become a part of the city?


ALso theres this:
Jeramiah 3:14 "Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:"

God is married allready? To Israel?


Im not completly stummped. Its just things i never caught before, so i gets all excited!

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Re: Are we our own mother?

Post by Strangelove on Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:59 am

Well, he's just been using the allegory of Hagar and Sarah...the two mothers...so, he's just tying it in with those expressions.

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Re: Are we our own mother?

Post by Son of Israel on Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:13 am

It is the center of our existence Kingdom Smile

Christ Married the Church in a New Marriage Covenant as explained in the New Testament. We've Marry Him raised from the dead.
Christ is the Husband. We are His Bride in that scenario.
As the Seed of Abraham, in Christ comes the "promise of the Father".
This occurs when He Father's Sons of God in us, by an intimate act of Coming into His Bride, who is NOT barren lol.

Yes, sometimes we are to see things as "Sons" of this union.
Other times, we are to see ourselves as the weaker vessel married unto Jesus, receiving Him in the bed chamber as a fruitful wife, like the New Jerusalem wife of Jesus, bringing forth the Son of God from within us. Other times yet, we are to "be about our father's business" in preaching the gospel and sowing the SEED, as a good "husbandman" does with that wife.
You know all the scriptures,
It is squarely a family affair Smile
Blessings!

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Re: Are we our own mother?

Post by KingdomSeeker on Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:09 pm

The bride of the Lamb, is Heavenly Jerusalem, The Mother of US, meaning the heavenly bearer of Our promise as Gods Children, So our Promise IS Eternal Life(which is Jesus 1 John 1:2) in the eternal heavenly city, both of which are in US allready, and slowly conforming us to God. Ok I get that.

So that brings me to the teaching where "WE, are the Bride of Christ"

The scriptures NEVER, say that we are "The Bride of Christ"

Paul says he wants to present the church(or at least the people HE is writing to), AS A bride,
but never says that the Complete body of Jesus, IS the Bride.
Its never said.

Paul used the metaphor that he wants to present the Corinthians to Jesus AS a bride. But that was pauls metaphor, not Christs.

Paul never said "YOU ARE THE BRIDE!" no..he said "you are the Body"

So are we the Bride? and where is the portion of scripture that says such directly?

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Re: Are we our own mother?

Post by Son of Israel on Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:46 am

The New Jerusalem Wife of Jesus

With Heavenly Love do I set myself apart to our Lord and to you, to share the most intimate of relationships in all this cosmos. Nothing in all of time, space or dimension is as powerful as what our God reveals to us in His Marriage to us!
I, a nobody, have altogether set myself apart for this Blessing and pray so much for you and our brothers and sisters in this world to be filled with the knowledge of the Glory of this Blessing as His Wife! I almost don't know where to start...
But I know Jesus does and I have sanctified myself before Him this morning and have prayed deeply for Him to sanctify Himself in me as I set this silly body in this chair and let HIM use these fingers to lay forth the "unveiling" of His Wife.
This is such an intimate and personal aspect of His Relationship. It is a very private matter to Him in His entering into His Bride in the Marriage chamber.
It is so intimate, that even we flesh and blood people can relate to His personal intimate privacy with His Wife, and how that it is something not for public demonstration. In Revealing Himself to us, we can surely know that He is only this way with His Wife and He only lets HER see Himself so exposed in His Love with Her.
It is only within the Marriage Chamber of our bodies, through the most intimate of relationships, by which we receive His “incorruptible Seed”.
It is something only the Husband shares with His Wife.
Does this make sense? We are created in His image. We "feel" things like He does. We know how deeply private such a thing is. For Him to show Himself to us as He does, is the Highest order of Holy Matrimony.
So when we read scriptures, these deepest and most intimate thoughts and feelings, not to mention His Acts of Love, are reserved only for her.
His Wife.

We know that the scriptures are presented in such a way that not just anyone can pick up the Bible and read it and comprehend it without being led by the Holy Spirit within them. Only by containing Him who wrote it, will His Spirit see through our eyes as we read, what it is that He wrote, by which we can then “see” it.
Even this statement will only make sense to someone who is filled with the Holy Spirit of Christ resurrected and “come” into them.
Everything is written “parabolically” and Jesus Himself tells us why;

(Mat 13:10) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
(Mat 13:11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
(Mat 13:12) For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
(Mat 13:13) Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
(Mat 13:14) And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
(Mat 13:15) For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
(Mat 13:16) But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
(Mat 13:17) For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

It is only Jesus Himself who can reveal the true meaning of what He says;

(Luk 24:45) Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Let us pray for Him to open our eyes to understand the scriptures! For He most certainly will heed this prayer Smile

Open our eyes Lord we beseech thee!!

Moses was a “type” of Christ. He was the one who moderated in between God and Israel on Mount Sinai when God “Married” Israel. That was what people now call the “Mosaic Covenant”.
For whatever reason, today, the word “covenant” has been changed to read “testament”.
When we read our Bibles, we commonly say “Old Testament” or “New Testament” and we think of it as two different “sections” of the Bible.
But the real meaning is “Old Covenant” and “New Covenant”!

In the O.T. we read that when Moses came down from Sinai with the tables of stone, that his face shone with the Glory of the Covenant that God was making with Israel in the wilderness;

(Exo 34:29) And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.

His face shined so bright that none of Israel could behold it, so they asked him to put a “veil” over his face;

(Exo 34:30) And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
(Exo 34:33) And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.

That Covenant that Moses was mediating from God to Israel, was a “Marriage Covenant”.

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

And yet, even unto this day we read that this “veil” over the eyes and hearts and minds of people reading this “Old Testament” is still there!

(2Co 3:14) But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

(2Co 3:15) But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

The fact that words have been changed around in our Bibles by translators and the genders have been changed from “she” or “he” to “the” has further reduced our ability to see the details of “His” Marriage to “Her” in the “New Marriage Covenant” that we simply and ignorantly call the “New Testament”!

Howbeit, plenty still stands out. So since none of us are Greek scholars, we can still discern this wonderful story of this Marriage Covenant even with our English Bibles. With minimal reference to original words I think that we can fathom some great Blessings as we move forward.

But I will make some references. For instance, the definite article “THE” is how we read the titles to each of the Books in the N.T.
But in the Greek, every word is exact. So any of the titles are most correctly going to be titled with feminine gender! Because they are written to Jesus’ Wife! For instance;

“To Her, the Corinthians” or “To Her the Galations” or “To Her the Philipians” and so on for all the N.T. Epistles.

Another example I’ve given earlier is here;

(Rom 8:22) For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

But a proper reading of this verse would be;

“For we know that all of “Her” is groaning and travailing in “birth” pain together even until now”.

Translators literally raped such underlying meaning. How can we, in our limited knowledge of the Greek understand the connection to the scriptures that this relates to??

(Isa 54:1) Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.

Or;

(Jer 4:31) For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.

Or;

(Mic 4:10) Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.

Jesus described His “Coming” as this;

(Joh 16:19) Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

(Joh 16:21) A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

Paul uses the terminology;

(Gal 4:19) My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

We see this woman who brings forth this Christ Child forming from within us, “travailing” in birth;

(Rev 12:2) And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

It is the only means by which we “enter the Kingdom of God”;

(Act 14:22) Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

This “New Marriage Covenant” produces children of God. The “Old Marriage Covenant” that God made with Israel in the wilderness did NOT;

Isa 26:17 Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD.
Isa 26:18 We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth;

NO SAVIOUR from that Wife!! In HER birth pangs, she was “as it were, brought forth wind”!

LOL, sorry, but what a picture that gives, sheesh.

But the time was prophecied when God’s wife would bring forth that Saviour;

(Isa 9:6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

This person, as the “everlasting Father”, would have Children!

(Isa 8:18) Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Joel just HAD to have loved writing about these Children of God to come some day;

(Joe 2:1) Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

(Joe 2:2) A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

Abrahamic covenant of “Ephraim being Great”! Look as how Joel sees these Children of God!

(Joe 2:3) A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

(Joe 2:4) The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.

(Joe 2:5) Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

(Joe 2:6) Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
(Birth pangs!)


(Joe 2:7) They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:

(Joe 2:7) They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
(Soldiers of Christ! Armored!)

(Joe 2:8) Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
(The Sword of the Spirit!)

(Joe 2:9) They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
(Preaching the Gospel!)

(Joe 2:10) The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
(Closing out the Old, bringing in the NEW!)

(Joe 2:11) And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

How does the Lord utter His voice?

He thunders it quietly! LOL!

(1Ki 19:12) And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

(1Co 1:21) For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

How did Joel say this was all going to happen?

(Joe 2:16) Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.

(Joe 2:21) Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things.

(Joe 2:22) Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.

(Joe 2:23) Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.

(Joe 2:26) And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.

(Joe 2:27) And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
(He is within us!!)

(Joe 2:28) And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

(Joe 2:29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

(Joe 2:32) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

She shall be DELIVERED! She Delivers the CHILD in whom we have our Mother!

(Psa 22:30) A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

(Psa 22:31) They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

(Psa 87:5) And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her.

(Psa 87:6) The LORD shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah.

The Children that Jesus Fathers of His Beautiful Mt Zion/Jerusalem Wife;

(Rev 21:9) And there came unto me one of the seven angels… and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

(Heb 2:13) And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

(Gal 4:26) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

These N.T. / New Covenant proclamations are a fulfillment of such Old Covenant hopes, such as what Jeremiah expressed;

(Jer 31:31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

(Jer 31:32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

(Jer 31:33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

(Jer 31:34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The writer to the Hebrews was excited to see this New Covenant fulfilled and quoted this scripture and stated that the Old Marriage Covenant “passes away”;

(Heb 8:7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

(Heb 8:8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

(Heb 8:9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

(Heb 8:10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

(Heb 8:11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

(Heb 8:12) For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

(Heb 8:13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Those in this New Marriage Covenant have had that “veil taken away”.
The picture that God is giving us is exactly preserved in our modern day marriage ceremonies as can be, praise God! For as the Bride stands before the altar with her betrothed Husband, she wears the veil until the time she says, “I DO”.
Then she looks up into her husband’s face, he then “REMOVES THE VEIL” and she beholds His face clearly for the first time, and He Kisses His Bride!

(2Co 3:16) Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

This verse literally reads like this in the Greek;

“Nevertheless, when SHE turns her face upward to Her Lord, Then He takes away the veil” !!

Once He removes Her veil, she beholds His Shining face!;

(2Co 4:4) In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

(2Co 4:6) For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Isn’t this awesome!

As an introduction, it is obviously important to Him to show the beginning from the end first lol. It makes sense though. For we are truly in the time of Blessing as that fruitful wife of the Lamb, bringing forth His fruit, even the Children of His Marriage Covenant.
We can perhaps better appreciate the agony God went through in the beginning now that we’ve seen the fruition of His patience finally bring forth Salvation in His Israel Bride of Christ.

As we next go into the first part of that Old Marriage Covenant, we’ll see how that from the “wife” standpoint, it was always such that the wife was barren for a long long time before that Son finally came. Such as with Sarah, or with Rachel. They were “barren” for a long time. Even Rebecca was barren for awhile. They were passed up in bringing the firstborn son to their husbands Abraham and Jacob respectively. It was always that second son born way down the line that received the “Blessing and the Birthright”. But when they finally did conceive, they are presented as having “more children” than either of their husband’s first wife’s children. Hence the reason we see such scriptures as;

(Gen 11:30) But Sarai was barren; she had no child.

(Gen 25:21) And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.

Gen 29:31 And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.

That last scripture is also interesting in that as Hagar and Leah, that first wife was less than desirable. Of course the meaning of this will be evident soon if not already, that God’s first wife that He married at Sinai is the “type” of these wives that both Abraham and Jacob had to suffer with.
There was no Blessing of the Great Covenant upon the Children of either of those wives.
We will see that fact pressed home upon us continuously as we see how rebellious and adulterous God’s first “Israel” wife was, and why he eventually divorced her.

This topic of the Veiled Lady is going to be perhaps the greatest means of receiving the Revelation of Jesus Christ as possible in our flesh. It will open up every single “mystery of Godliness” and the “mystery of Christ and the Church” and the “mystery of Israel coming in out of the Gentiles” as spoken of in 1 Tim 3:16,Eph 5:32, Rom 11:25 respectively. We will be given to know the mysteries!

(Mar 4:11) And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

(Rom 16:25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

(Eph 1:9) Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

(Eph 3:4) Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

(Eph 3:9) And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

(1Co 2:10) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

(Col 1:26) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

(Col 1:27) To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


(Eph 5:30) For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

(Eph 5:32) This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

(Rev 21:2) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Jesus has been about the "work of the Father" for 2000 years now in His Marriage to the Church/Zion/Israel/Bride/Wife/New Jerusalem bringing forth Sons of God birthed forth in righteousness within us. The Kingdom of God. Christ in you, the Hope of Glory.

(Joh 14:8) Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

(Joh 14:9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?


In Eternal Love in Christ
Bruce

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Re: Are we our own mother?

Post by KingdomSeeker on Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:27 am

That was great Bruce, truly. Thank you. You actually indeed cleared allot up for me, Some i had understood, and beleived allready...then for somereason forgot i knew, adn then read it and went

...oh yeah...

..oh yeah thats right...

...hahah OH! Sigh ...yeah ..

As I read. , and then some that is kind of new, Thank you VERY much for that. God bless.

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