Dispensationalism

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Dispensationalism

Post by zone on Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:12 pm

Doc - i'm personally convinced this system of theology belongs in apostasy, but you're the boss....put it where you will.
~ zone.

Christ and the Gospel not Old Testament Themes at All? A Hyper-Troubling Conclusion of a Hyper-Dispensationalist


“But since I’ve spent almost all my study time in the OT during the last two months, it’s almost as though I’ve left the Gospel Carnival behind. Kind of like going for a drive in the country, but better. It’s been very refreshing, but the funny thing is that, despite the fact that I have been spending considerably more time than normal in my Bible for the past two months, I’ve read virtually nothing about Christ, the Cross, or the Gospel.




Now some of you are probably shaking your heads right now and saying, “This guy doesn’t know how to read his Bible–it’s ALL about Christ if you know how to successfully navigate between the lines!” And I’m not blind to the redemptive thread that winds through the Bible. But the thing is, when I stop reading between the lines and just start reading the lines, Christ and the Gospel do not emerge as major OT themes. In fact, they’re not themes at all.




And so I’m musing here. If robust faith and rigid separatism could flourish in the OT without reference to the themes of Christ and the Gospel, is it really possible to jettison everything else today and base fellowship strictly or even primarily upon fidelity to the Gospel?” – Dr. Mark Snoeberger, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology, Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary[1]



The three paragraphs quoted above are frankly quite troubling on a number of levels. One is their source: Dr. Mark Snoeberger, a professor at Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary, which, although long noted for its adherence to revised Dispensationalism of the Ryrian sort, actually commands some sort of respect in certain Baptist circles as being a basically sound and academically qualified institution of higher learning. Now, not all Dispensationalists would say such extreme things as Dr. Snoeberger has been saying; but it is disconcerting to note that this is not coming from the lips of some wild-eyed radical on the fringe, but from one of the more influential of the fundamental Baptist seminaries that still adhere to Dispensationalism in the basic form it took at Ryrie’s Dallas Theological Seminary, some decades ago


http://psalm45publications.com/c/articles/dispensationalism/
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What the Bible Says About the People of God

Post by zone on Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:15 pm

What the Bible Says About the People of God



Introduction

Dispensationalism is basically the method of interpreting the scriptures that sees two distinct peoples of God, with two distinct destinies – Israel and the Church. In various forms and among various groups, this idea has had a widespread influence – but is it biblical? Following is a select list of tenets that many contemporary mainstream Dispensationalists would hold to, and a list of scripture passages that address these tenets. This list represents a wide segment of popular Dispensational teachings; however, Dispensationalism is by no means a monolithic entity, and many self-professed Dispensationalists, particularly in the Progressive school, would not adhere to many of its points.

  1. The Church is not the continuation of God’s Old Testament people, but a distinct body born on the Day of Pentecost.
  2. The Church is never equated with Israel in the New Testament, and Christians are not Jews, true Israel, etc.
  3. The prophecies made to Israel in the Old Testament are not being fulfilled in the Church, nor will they ever be.
  4. The Church does not participate in the New Covenant prophesied in the Old Testament; it is for ethnic Israel, and will be established in a future millennial kingdom.
  5. The Old Testament saints were saved by faith alone, on the basis of the Calvary-work of Christ alone; however, the object of their faith was not Christ, but rather the revelation peculiar to their dispensation.
  6. The Old Testament saints did not know of the coming “Church Age,” of the resurrection of Christ, or basically, of what we today call the gospel.
  7. When Jesus came to earth, he offered the Jews a physical kingdom, but they rejected him.
  8. When Jesus proclaimed “the gospel of the Kingdom,” it was the news about how ethnic Jews might enter and find rewards in this physical kingdom, and is to be distinguished from the gospel as defined in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, which the apostles later proclaimed to the church.
  9. After the Jews rejected Jesus’ kingdom offer, he inaugurated a parenthetical “Church Age”, which will be concluded immediately before God again takes up his dealings with his national people, ethnic Israel.
  10. During the “Church Age,” Jesus is not reigning from the throne of David; he is engaged instead in his priestly work, and his kingly work will take place in the future millennial kingdom.
  11. At some unspecified but imminent time, Jesus will return (but not all the way to earth, just to the air) and rapture his Church, also called his Bride; for the following seven years, they will feast with him at the marriage supper of the Lamb; meanwhile, on earth, he will begin to deal with his national people, ethnic Israel, again, calling them to himself and preserving them in the midst of seven years of great tribulation; at the midpoint of which, the Antichrist will set himself up as god in the rebuilt Jewish temple, and demand worship from the world.
  12. After these seven years, Christ will return, this time all the way to earth. He will defeat the forces of evil, bind Satan and cast him into a pit, and inaugurate the physical Jewish Kingdom that he had offered during his life on earth. The Jews who survived the tribulation will populate the earth during this blessed golden era, and the Christians will reign spiritually, in glorified bodies.
  13. After these thousand years, Satan will be released and will gather an army from the offspring of the Jews who survived the tribulation. He will be finally defeated and cast into hell. At this time, the wicked dead will be resurrected and judged, whereas the righteous dead had already been resurrected one-thousand-seven years previously, at the rapture. Christ will then usher in the New Heavens and New Earth, and the destinies of all mankind will be finalized. Dispensationalists are divided as to whether or not there will remain a distinction between Christians and Jews in the New Earth.


http://psalm45publications.com/c/articles/dispensationalism/
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The Threat of Christian Zionism

Post by zone on Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:17 pm

The Threat of Christian Zionism


If the phenomenal success of the bestselling Left Behind series indicates anything about the prevailing eschatological mindset across a wide swath of the evangelical landscape in modern America, then we would do well to pause and consider. Where is this fascination with the sensational, and frequently outright bizarre, interpretation of the significance of current events coming from? What is driving the obsession to see end-time prophetic events transpiring in every headline? What connection does this mindset have with the implacable opposition to any measure taken for peace in the Middle East which would leave the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights, the West Bank, or any part of Jerusalem outside of the complete control of the modern state of Israel? More importantly, what ideologies, theological convictions, or ways of understanding the bible lie beneath these phenomena, and how much of an impact are they having on the theological moorings of the Church today?

I suspect that the impact is significant enough to warrant a strong warning statement about the movement known as Christian Zionism, and the hyper-Dispensationalism which drives it, from the leaders of the evangelical Church. Unfortunately, however, it has not received the united front of resistance with which other threats to the health of the Church have been met with, such as Openness theology and gender-role confusion. Is this because many Evangelical leaders share enough theological convictions in common with the more extreme examples of the movement that they are loathe to give a clear denunciation? Or do they simply not perceive the errors as being a significant or widespread enough a danger to warrant the time and effort of a thoroughgoing rebuttal? Whatever the reason, there seems to be a general lack of attentiveness to a very rampant problem in Evangelicalism. Perhaps it is time to make clear just what Christian Zionism is (as well as all its theological bedfellows), what convictions are driving it, and what results it is tending towards in the thoughts and practice of the contemporary believer.

http://psalm45publications.com/articles/the-threat-of-christian-zionism/#more-332
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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by Strangelove on Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:55 pm

Just bookmarking this for a read tomorrow:

Judaized Christianity Does Not Confuse God

~SNIPPETT~

"A huge, embarrassing secret is out of the bottle: it is a political reality that a poorly-described mass of professing Christians have been the swing vote in each of the last seven presidential elections. This group is made up of people from many denominations and non-denominational community groups and churches, most of whom call themselves evangelical, Judeo-Christian, and a few answer to Christian Zionist. We prefer the clearly defined term from Bible history "Judaized Christianity" to describe it."

~SNIPPETT~

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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by ada on Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:09 pm


Yea mr. carlson is one of us.
He has made the 4 part youtube series on
christian zionism called the one dollar dvd.
OneDollarDVDProject.com

The Modern State of Israel: Providence, Miracle, or What Really Happened,






It goes hand in hand with scofieldism.
Here is his website.


Why Judeo-Christians Support War
by Charles E. Carlson
The scheme was to alter the Christian view of Zionism by creating and promoting a pro-Zionist subculture within Christianity. Scofield's role was to re-write the King James Version of the Bible by inserting Zionist-friendly notes in the margins, between verses and chapters, and on the bottoms of the pages. The Oxford University Press used Scofield, a pastor by then, as the Editor, probably because it needed such as man for a front. The revised bible was called the Scofield Reference Bible, and with limitless advertising and promotion, it became a best-selling "bible" in America and has remained so for 90 years.
The Scofield Reference Bible was not to be just another translation, subverting minor passages a little at a time. No, Scofield produced a revolutionary book that radically changed the context of the King James Version. It was designed to create a subculture around a new worship icon, the modern State of Israel, a state that did not yet exist, but which was already on the drawing boards of the committed, well-funded authors of World Zionism.
We Hold These Truths -- A Strait Gate Ministry
http://whtt.org/newwhtt/main.php?nid=158


Philip Mauro on Dispensationalism and Zionism in 1927

Charles E. Carlson Mar 13, 2007

That conceived in error, will die in evil company

By Charles E. Carlson



The Gospel of the Kingdom is a remarkable book, an epiphany to this writer. Philip Mauro, a lawyer, (nevertheless a devout follower of Christ), wrote this as a devastating refutation of the Scofield Reference Bible with amazing insight in 1927. In a chapter headed “Concerning Zionism” he tells us:



The "dispensational" doctrine is that the natural descendants of Jacob will be gathered back to Palestine, still in impenitence and unbelief (Zionism is supposed to be the beginning of this movement); that Christ will come to "the air" above (unseen), will raise dead believers, change the living and take all to glory (1 Th. 4:16, 17), thus leaving only unsaved persons on earth; that the "great tribulation" will then ensue and will last for seven years…”



Mauro continues:

“… Zionism… has for its object the making of Palestine a homeland for the Jews. Concerning that movement a great deal of misinformation has been disseminated during the past twenty years in the interest of dispensationalism. For dispensationalist writers and speakers have painted wonderful word-pictures portraying the multitudes of Jews said to be flocking to their ancient homeland; the miraculously renewed fertility of the soil; the return of the early and latter rain etc. etc.; and it has been made to appear that the re-constitution of the Jewish State and the rebuilding of the Temple were matters of tomorrow or the day after. All these supposed happenings were presented to eager readers and hearers as a marvelous fulfillment of prophecy taking place before our very eyes, and as giving assurance that the time of the end had come. But the sober facts are that Zionism has been a pitiful failure almost from the beginning… Palestine is wretched in the extreme, and that the attitude of the great mass of Jews throughout the world towards the Zionistic project is that of complete apathy and indifference.”



Mr. Mauro concludes his book’s introduction:

“I would point out that this modern system of "dispensational teaching" is a cause of division and controversy between those followers of Christ who ought to be, at this time of crisis, solidly united against the mighty forces of unbelief and apostasy; and further that it tends to bring the vital truth of our Lord's second coming into discredit with many, because it associates that great Bible doctrine with various speculative details for which no scriptural support can be found.” ( 1)
http://mobile.whtt.org/newwhtt/main.php?ncateid=1&nid=1283
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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by zone on Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:51 pm

don't know if this has been posted at all yet, but one man's testimony re DISPENSATIONALIST HOAX:

http://www.mtio.com/articles/aissar69.htm
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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by zone on Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:21 am

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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by zone on Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:23 am

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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by Strangelove on Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:49 pm


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CLASSIC DISPO RUBBISH - must read

Post by zone on Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:39 pm


Israel's Kingdom Gospel and Our Grace Gospel
Matthew McGee http://www.matthewmcgee.org/2gospels.html

McGee is buddied up with Les Feldick


Les Feldick (and many others) teach a doctrine that comes from a similar root to the "New Perspective on Paul" (going in the opposite direction). I call his brand of hyperdispensationlism the "two Gospel" (or three gospel) heresy.

Basically they teach that Jesus' call of repentance was only to the Jews, and was a different "gospel" than that preached to the Gentile, later, by Paul. Also, the "great commission" is not a command given to the Church, as we have it today, but was given only to the first 11 apostles....

..................................

Hyperdispensationalism and the Authority of Christ


by Bob DeWaay


Recently I spoke with a friend from another state who recounted to me how he had lost fellowship with a long-time Christian friend because of an eccentric doctrine the friend had gotten caught up in. The particular doctrine claims Jesus' teachings are not "for" the church, that the Great Commission is not binding on the church, that there are at least two different gospels, and that the gospel of grace was totally unknown until Paul received it. When my friend tried to correct his friend, he refused to listen and now only fellowships with others who believe these strange teachings. This is what Paul described as "factious" (Titus 3:10). A faction develops when doctrines derived from unbiblical sources become the condition for fellowship.

I have since heard from several others who have had friends or family get caught up in this same teaching. For many, the current source of this doctrine is radio teacher Les Feldick. Critics of this system (myself included) call the doctrine hyperdispensationalism. It is distinct from dispensationalism, which teaches that the church age began at Pentecost.1 In this article I will describe the source of hyperdispensationalism, some of its current proponents, and examine its claims by comparing them with Scripture. I will conclude that its claims are false and constitute a diminishing of Christ's authority over His own church....

Two Gospels?

Feldick and other hyperdispensationalists claim that are at least two different gospels

So in essence, it has a "different gospel", that has no repentance necessary: simply intellectual assent. It is also heavily tied in with Hyper-dispensationalism, saying that the Jews will be forever separated from the Gentile...

We can prove from the book of Acts that Feldick's claims are false. Let us begin in Acts 20 where Paul recounted his ministry there to the Ephesian elders. He begins by saying this: "I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house, solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:20, 21). Contrary to Feldick's claim, Paul preached repentance to both Jews
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue108.htm
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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by zone on Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:03 pm

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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by zone on Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:17 pm

common dispo error/weapon:



A Hyper-dispensationalist capitalizes on Eph 3:2 without introducing the student to Col 1:25. If a dispensation is a "period of time" then God gave Paul a period of time called "God" in Col 1:25.



(Eph 3:2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

(Col 1:25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;


What is Right

Never is a dispensation a period of time. A dispensation is simply the way in which God dishes something out. Something being dispensed. As in, giving out, or measuring out. God does dispense things differently at different times.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners. . .

However, It is very plain what God dispensed to Paul. God dispensed a measure of the Gospel (1 Cor 9:17) and the Grace to go with it, not a period of time called the grace of God. That is to twist the verse completely. This dispensing does happen “in time” but is not a period of time. The Bible verses that deal with time periods are
Eph_2:7; Eph_3:5; Eph_3:21; Col_1:26;


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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by zone on Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:23 pm

Through the Bible, March 2, 2010
By
J. Lindner



This review is from: Through the Bible with Les Feldick: Book One (A Transcript of Tape One) (Ring-bound)

Les Feldick's "Through the Bible" series is a compendium to his television program where he stands before a small audience and references Biblical scripture. There is no doubt that Les knows the Bible frontwards and backwards as any viewer of his program can attest. He picks one focal chapter from the Bible then proceeds to read through that scripture. However, he jumps all over the place to find supporting passages that help illustrate his intention for the focal chapter.

If that was all Les would do, this would be a great way to learn the Bible. However, Les continually promotes his own agenda. He starts each program with the general announcement that his is just "an informal Bible study" and that he is just a simple farmer who wants to help people understand scripture. Actually, Les is a doom and gloom purveyor of scripture wrapped up to support all of the things many Americans despise about orgainized religion. That is, if you do not believe the Bible the way Les Feldick presents it, you are an unbeliever not worthy of eternal grace. Infact Les even states that God's grace will not last forever, but God will eventually display his wrath against humanity and obliterate all unbelievers.

This to me is exactly what the Puritans of colonial New England preached, but with a Baptist influence. But Les gets tangled up in what Israel's future role will be. The New Jerusalem will be the culmination of Israel finally accepting Christ as their king and savior. Les rarely even mentions the role of who we now know as "Christians" in God's final kingdom. He speaks of Armegeddon and the rapture as if the Book of Revelation is written for now, 2010.

Feldick's theology is flawed. Unlike what Les lectures on, Jesus did speak to Gentiles. The Samaritan woman was not a Jew, his Good Samaritan parable focused on Gentiles, not Jews. By his own admission, when the Bible does not speak directly to the point he wants to make he replaces scripture with conjecture. It seems that Les doesn't have nearly as many facts and answers as he would have his viewers and listeners believe. He continually promotes his ministry by saying how people send him letters to let him know how his teachings have changed their lives. He adds that some even admit they had been wrong for 40 or more years until they heard from the Oklahoma farmer. Of course during the course of his programs he will read about Paul instructing people not to boast of their own glory, but Les ultimately does exactly that which Paul says we should not do. Les is full of self-righteousness that ultimately mars his delivery.

But Les does remain one of the most visible and knowledgable people around on the Bible and if you want to have the opportunity to argue with your television, radio, or mp3 player, tune in or download a few episodes.
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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by zone on Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:45 pm

The Gospel"s" According To Les Feldick:

Wrongly Dividing the people of God

Otherwise known as "Hyper-dispensationalism."


Chapter one
Two Peoples of God?


“Now next week I’ll make a little more mention of the fact that all these promises given to Israel are earthly, I’ll shock you. Never does the Old Testament teach a Jew dying and going to heaven. Never. You can’t find it. But he knew that he would die and be resurrected and come back to this earthly kingdom.”… “…the Old Testament Jewish believer had no concept as we do, of dying and going to heaven. So, Israel was an earthly people with earthly promises. The church, the Body of Christ, is a heavenly people with heavenly promises.” Les Feldick


http://www.goosequills.com/lesfeldick.html
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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by Strangelove on Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:57 pm

The kingdom has come:

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

(Matthew 13:41) The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather
out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

(Mark 11:10) Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.

Luke 10:8-9 And into whatsoever city ye enter,
and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you: (9) And
heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them,
The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Luke 22:28-30 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. (29) And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; (30) That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

It will be delivered up to the Father at Christs return:

1 Corinthians 15:23-26 But every man in his own
order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his
coming. (24)
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (25) For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. (26) The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

When we are converted we enter the Kingdom:

(Matthew 18:3) And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus is King NOW:

(Matthew 21:5) Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ***, and a colt the foal of an ***.

(Matthew 27:11) And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.

Luke 19:37-38 And when he was come nigh,
even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of
the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for
all the mighty works that they had seen; (38) Saying,
Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Christians reign with Jesus in His Kingdom.

Colossians 1:12-13 Giving thanks unto the Father,
which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the
saints in light: (13) Who hath delivered us from the power of
darkness, and hath
translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and
companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

(1 Peter 2:9) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

(Ephesians 1:20) Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and
set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

(Ephesians 2:6) And hath raised us up together, and
made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

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Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by zone on Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:54 pm

get up to 10 and do your thing at the EA thread Docman.

lookin' for ya bud.
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Daniels 70th Week (Dispy)

Post by zone on Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:50 pm

zone wrote:Therapon is an old guy that was there while i was there (some other name) - i fought him tooth and nail.

Ellis Skolfield (aka Therapon)

http://www.fishhouseministries.com/html/01-about.htm

....

more to come as i refresh my memory on this guy and his work.

~

ok...here's the page i was referring to:

http://www.fishhouseministries.com/pdf/Daniels70thWeek.pdf

here's what i get when i cut & paste page 4 (the DISPY culprit):


Daniel 9:24-27 Continued . .
wcoen“eAfkinr m(d“ sh theha e(vt uchoaev, ”ae bano advnieft f sewarteiatnhnt i mcfo parrnmiyn oc(feJ e,s wpeoviseshsni ,bp sleoyo Spthaleits)a nwfo)er se hokna ilesl
tcnmcthhoeoaeeantk sstdweehue ,eem siae tosn mkaldda mahe tftseeoeio. or”ksl nthianh,ta adeelnl oa (dcvsma tetuhahrskaseetpe p drtrwheeeaethced aesridtamn icdngire ngoisf ef6io dca9le abs) th:oa eaanm?nld)lid, nb t eieahnv tepi et ooohnnube sru lm eahndtetiid iou sls nphtt oha tonloefl

go here to page 4:

http://www.fishhouseministries.com/pdf/Daniels70thWeek.pdf

"And he (the above satanic prince, possibly Satan) shall confirm the covenant with many (Jewish people) for one week..."

~

BUSTED! Islamo-fascist-phobic Dispo! another heretic applying the Finished Work of Jesus on the Cross to satan!

I REST MY CASE....(not really:D i'll show how he did this).


Last edited by zone on Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by zone on Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:12 pm

zone wrote:
here's what i get when i cut & paste page 4 (the DISPY culprit):


Daniel 9:24-27 Continued . .
wcoen“eAfkinr m(d“ sh theha e(vt uchoaev, ”ae bano advnieft f sewarteiatnhnt i mcfo parrnmiyn oc(feJ e,s wpeoviseshsni ,bp sleoyo Spthaleits)a nwfo)er se hokna ilesl
tcnmcthhoeoaeeantk sstdweehue ,eem siae tosn mkaldda mahe tftseeoeio. or”ksl nthianh,ta adeelnl oa (dcvsma tetuhahrskaseetpe p drtrwheeeaethced aesridtamn icdngire ngoisf ef6io dca9le abs) th:oa eaanm?nld)lid, nb t eieahnv tepi et ooohnnube sru lm eahndtetiid iou sls nphtt oha tonloefl

Doc: do you know if this cut & paste result means the original was in Hebrew?
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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by Strangelove on Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:02 pm

zone wrote:Doc: do you know if this cut & paste result means the original was in Hebrew?

Not a clue. confused

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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by zone on Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:20 pm

okay...i retraced my steps concerning Mr. Skolfield.

this from a site called FulfilledProphecy.com

Mod mark s did a lot of research and i followed up particularly re: this bit below.
i THINK i called the old boy out on this at the time and he hedged and went away. but i forget how it all went down. i suspected he was MI of some sort (based on his collective writings and claims...and the MPD thing is just creepy) - his counterpart Walid Shoebat has long been outed as mossad.

this post is from page 2 of a thread on this guy Ellis...y'all can read more if ya want.
(been here done this - again:| )

.............


Re: Ellis Skolfield anyone?
by mark s on Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:59 am

In his article, "Daniel’s 70th Week", Skolfield presents an argument that the 70th week is actually a long stretch of time, and has been fulled (sic).

He makes a linguistic argument for making a time substitution:

If the Dome of the Rock is the Abomination that makes
Desolate, and Daniel.s 70th Week is about that dome, then the
70th week has to stretch into the past and future from 688AD
when the dome was constructed.
So how long can the 70th week be?
Pg 5 Daniel’s 70th Week

Having concluded already that the Dome of the Rock is the Abomination of Desolation, he now needs to find a way to make the 70th Week fit.

Now, pay close attention to this:

The key is hidden in the Hebrew word,
shavuim. Shavuim is a unique plural form of the Hebrew word
Shavua, which is defined as a seven or a week.

SHAVUOT AND SHAVUIM

What follows may be a bit technical, but it.s a .one brick at a
time. empirical argument. All the evidence needs to be in place
before the conclusions we can draw from them make any sense.
Everywhere in the Old Testament, except in the book of Daniel,
the Hebrew words shavuot or shavua are used to express a seven
or a week. However, in Daniel an unusual word for seven is used:
shavuim, the masculine plural form of shavuot. This plural form
appears ONLY in Daniel and even here, shavuim is used only four
times, three of which are in the 70 Weeks! So why is an unusual
plural form of the word for seven used here?
Because it is meant to be a plural, that.s why!
The 70th Week is not just one week of years -- it is a plural of
weeks of years or a multiple of weeks of years.
Pg 5 Daniel’s 70th Week

What Skolfield has just done here is imply that the 70th Week, in Daniel 9:27, is the plural word form. Its not.

Daniel 9:24-27
(24) Seventy sevens (shboim shboim – both plural) are decreed as to your people, and as to your holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make atonement for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy.
(25) Know, then, and understand that from the going out of a word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem, to Messiah the Prince, shall be seven weeks (shboim - plural) and sixty two weeks (ushboim - plural). The street shall be built again, and the wall, even in times of affliction.
(26) And after sixty two weeks (eshboim – plural), Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself. And the people of a coming ruler shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end shall be with the flood, and ruins are determined, and war shall be until the end.
(27) And he shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week (shbuo – singular). And in the middle of the week (eshbuo – singular) he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease. And on a corner of the altar will be abominations that desolate, even until the end. And that which was decreed shall pour out on the desolator.

So then while Skolfield makes a technical sounding argument that this seventieth week has this peculiarity in being plural, its not. At least, not according to the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, and the Masoretic Text.

Therefore, there is no actual support for this argument. Having cited the original Hebrew, he should know this. But go back and look at what he wrote:


What follows may be a bit technical, but it.s a .one brick at a
time. empirical argument. All the evidence needs to be in place
before the conclusions we can draw from them make any sense.
Everywhere in the Old Testament, except in the book of Daniel,
the Hebrew words shavuot or shavua are used to express a seven
or a week. However, in Daniel an unusual word for seven is used:
shavuim, the masculine plural form of shavuot. This plural form
appears ONLY in Daniel and even here, shavuim is used only four
times, three of which are in the 70 Weeks! So why is an unusual
plural form of the word for seven used here?
Because it is meant to be a plural, that.s why!
The 70th Week is not just one week of years -- it is a plural of
weeks of years or a multiple of weeks of years.
Pg 5 Daniel’s 70th Week

He doesn't actually say that the last instance of "seven" is the plural form. He just acts like it is to make his case.

This is a huge red flag to me to watch out for deception, when someone mishandles the Hebrew text this blatantly.

http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=44290&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=b7f7e482fa9bc50365c780edee524b73&start=50

...

and anyways: don't we all know

He Who confirmed the Covenant was Jesus!

AMEN
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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by Strangelove on Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:27 pm

ADMIN-----Moved relavent dispy info here--ADMIN

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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by zone on Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:47 pm

oops...that's where it went....sorry doc.
delete one or th'other.No
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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by Hammer on Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:14 am

Dispensationalism belongs in the Apostasy.

To understand Dispensationalism, those who hold this doctrine believe that there are two dispensations that are parallel (not in series), one for the Jews (who are followers of the Talmud, not Jews at all) and one for Christians.

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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by zone on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:33 pm

Bloody Zion (Part 1)—Jewish Supremacism: Infiltration of the Christian Church...Scriptural Verses That Kill

Texe Marrs interviews author Edward Hendrie, author of Bloody Zion: Refuting the Jewish Fables That Sustain Israel’s War Against God and Man

http://www.texemarrs.com/

.....

i don't recommend a steady diet of texe marrs.
this interview is worth listening to however, particularly the second half.

covers xtian zionism; cornwallis; communism; macarthy; dispensationalism; judeo-masonry; kabbalism etc.

also, how ALL the cults are masonic infiltration, revealed by macarthy et al.
we know this already, but is a succinct interview.
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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by zone on Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:47 am

zone wrote:
covers xtian zionism; cornwallis; communism; macarthy; dispensationalism; judeo-masonry; kabbalism etc.

also, how ALL the cults are masonic infiltration, revealed by macarthy et al.
we know this already, but is a succinct interview.

Judaized Christianity: Front for New World Order -- Sen. McCarthy

July 18, 2012

"Your Churches Will Teach the Jew's Religion"

Excerpt from a 1956 speech, "GEORGE WASHINGTON'S SURRENDER" by Senator Joseph McCarthy (1908-1957.)

And many of the people of the land became Jews." Esther 9:17.

"The confession of General Cornwallis (left) to General Washington at Yorktown (Oct. 17, 1781) has been well hidden by historians. History books and text books have taught for years that when Cornwallis surrendered his army to General Washington that American independence came, and we lived happily ever after until the tribulations of the twentieth century."


"Jonathan Williams recorded in his "LEGIONS OF SATAN," 1781, that Cornwallis revealed to Washington that "a holy war will now begin on America, and when it is ended America will be supposedly the citadel of freedom, but her millions will unknowingly be loyal subjects to the Crown."

Cornwallis went on to explain what would seem a contradiction:

"Your churches will be used to teach the Jew's religion and in less than two hundred years the whole nation will be working for divine world government. That government that they believe to be divine will be the British Empire. All religions will be permeated with Judaism without even being noticed by the masses, and they will all be under the invisible all-seeing eye of the Grand Architect of Freemasonry."

http://www.henrymakow.com/nwo_introduced_under_masonic_g.html

...

this is already posted somewhere else, but fits with the previous post
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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by On the Edge on Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:11 am

What do you guys think is the best method of interpretation?
(Scofield Dispensationalism perhaps being the worst!)

I rather put off looking into the subject of prophecy altogether because of so many different interpretations.

I'm not a Bible scholar by any means, and I hate to say it but I've been fooled before, ya know? Besides, I might not even know what the word is for the correct way to look at it. (I didn't know the word Dispensationalism existed until a couple of years ago.)

Probably a good thread on it here somewhere maybe?


Zone, that's a good quote, the one to Washington.
I think I may have read it here also:

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/repute.htm

Another question!...
Do you think the KJV Bible really is the best?
Any thought about the Geneva Bible?
(Been a little skeptical since reading King James was a Mason.)
...Not that it shakes my faith in Jesus though!
If anything, knowing how all the world is against Him only makes me more sure my faith is in the right place!

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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by On the Edge on Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:23 am

This isn't the article that first opened my eyes to this matter, but how often do we hear the term "Judeo-Christianity"?

What a way to blend them together, huh?

What a huge myth!
The Myth of a Judeo-Christian Tradition
http://
www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4803.htm

"What is the Truth?
Is there then any truth in this term, "Judeo-Christian"? Is
Christianity derived from Judaism? Does Christianity have anything in
common with Judaism?

Reviewing the last two thousand years of Western Christian
history there is really no evidence of a Judeo-Christian tradition and
this has not escaped the attention of honest Christian and Jewish
commentators."

*Too tired tonight to look for a better source. Sorry! Hope there's nothing really dumb in this one! Looks good from a quick scan. Shocked
(Sleepy emoticon would come in handy!)

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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by louthesaint on Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:49 am

Methods of interpretations must have a base from which the interpretation arises.. The Word of God is not to be interpreted but it is received in the revelation of the Spirit.. that is what the Apostle said 1Jn5:7
The truth is that the house of Judaism is left desolate said Jesus to those who crucified Him...'there is really no evidence of a Judeo-Christian tradition' The true Faith is severed from Judaism... Apostle Paul, Himself a Benjemite opposed it calling the judaisers ":Dogs of the circumcision" Phil3:2


Blessings

.....

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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:09 pm

On the Edge wrote:What do you guys think is the best method of interpretation?
(Scofield Dispensationalism perhaps being the worst!)

Me and zone are both Amillenialists. Meaning, the world turns to crap, Jesus comes back and judges the lot of us whilst burning the whole shabang up in fire. Thats it. Eternity with God for those in Christ.

Theres a thread here:

Amillennialism

It's actually the most orthodox and widely held view in church history.

On the Edge wrote:Do you think the KJV Bible really is the best?
Any thought about the Geneva Bible?
(Been a little skeptical since reading King James was a Mason.)

Not all masons are bad. Some are just in it for the social side. Very Happy

I like the KJV best, although we must always be ready to go to the Greek and Hebrew.

I use e-sword on my computer. A marvelous program.

On the Edge wrote:...Not that it shakes my faith in Jesus though!
If anything, knowing how all the world is against Him only makes me more sure my faith is in the right place!

I know!

The world is fallen and well, just BAD to the core. And pretty much the whole world hates Jesus.

So we gotto be right! Yay!

Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

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Re: Dispensationalism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:13 pm

On the Edge wrote:This isn't the article that first opened my eyes to this matter, but how often do we hear the term "Judeo-Christianity"?

Try this too...

Benjamin Freedman - Jesus was NOT a "Jew"

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