Romans 11: 26, A key Verse For End Time Mingling of the Covenants

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Romans 11: 26, A key Verse For End Time Mingling of the Covenants

Post by northwye on Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:25 am

Romans 11: 26, A key Verse For End Time Mingling of the Covenants
Bernard Pyron


Some followers of dispensationalism may be bailing out of their theory that
the dispensationalist "church" will be raptured before the great
tribulation begins, now that for some who are watching what is
happening in this country it appears the tribulation may be beginning.
But they will stick to their Jewish supremacy and their two house
theology, that God has two different peoples he deals with in
different ways, the Jews and the "church."


John Darby, C.I. Scofield, Lewis S. Chafer, Charles C. Ryrie and other
classical dispensationalist theologians say all the Jews, all living
at some point in the end times, or some living in the end times will
be saved according to their interpretation of Romans 11: 26 which
contradicts other scriptures.


Romans 11: 25-26 says "For I would not,
brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be
wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel,
until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall
be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer,
and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:"


Dispensationalists insist that Romans 11: 25-26 must mean that after a
full number of Gentiles have been saved, that all the Jews will then be
saved, or all living at some point in the end times will be saved,
either by the dispensation of law under the Old Covenant or under the
dispensation of grace.


But there is no distinction between physical Israel and the Gentiles
in the New Testament. "There is neither Jew nor Greek...for ye are all
one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3: 28


It is becoming more and more clear that dispensationalism has been a
false theology for over a century which has been working toward a last
days mingling of the Old Covenant with the New Covenant, which is of
the spirit of anti-Christ. This has been Satan's plan all along.


In a deceptive way dispensationalism has taught its two house doctrine
that God has two peoples, the Jews and the "church." But it turns out
that dispensationalism's mingling of the covenants hinges on its
teaching that the Jews are to be saved in mass in the end times and
this will be a sort of different "dispensation," or even a "third
covenant."


John Hagee and his Christians United For Israel encourage a worship of
the Jews and the nation of Israel, which is a more open promotion of
the mingling of the covenants in the last days. Hagee is not as
deceptive as dispensationalism, because he comes right out and says
Christians must become one with the Jews. He does not appear to try to
fully convert Jews to Christ and the New Covenant.


In order for the mingling of the covenants to go forward, Romans 11:
26 is a key verse which cannot be allowed by the two house theologians
and their followers
to be interpreted according to Romans 9: 6-8, Romans 2: 28-29,
Galatians 4: 24-26, Galatians 3: 28-29 and Hebrews 10: 9.


Romans 9: 6-8 says "Not as though the word of God hath taken none
effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither,
because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In
Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children
of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of
the promise are counted for the seed."


Romans 2: 28-29 says "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly;
neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he
is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the
heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of
men, but of God."


Galatians 4: 24-26 says "Which things are an allegory: for these are
the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to
bondage, which is Agar For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and
answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her
children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother
of us all."


Galatians 3: 28-29 says "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is
neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are
all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's
seed, and heirs according to the promise."


Hebrews 10: 9 says " Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God.
He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second."

The "first" is the Old Covenant; the "second" is the New Covenant.
Christ takes away the Old Covanant so that he can establish the New
Covenant.


Dispensationalists cannot allow scripture to interpret scripture as
far as Romans 11: 26 is concerned.


"Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the
Lord is near in the valley of decision." This verse now takes on a new
meaning for those caught up in dispensationalism than it did when
Billy Graham used to quote it. A valley in scripture indicates a low
spiritual state, while being on the mountains always signals a
spiritual high. Those who have the decision to make about whether to
follow dispensationalism and the other two house theologies -
Messianic Judaism, Hebrew Roots, the Mormons - into an end time
mingling of the covenants are in a low spiritual state. To get out of
this low place, they need to seek the Holy Spirit for the truth of
scripture. They need more of Christ and his mind in them than they
need to be preoccupied with physical Israel.


Probably only a small Remnant of
physical Israel can be fully converted to Christ. There may be
more Jews joining the Messianic Judaism movement during the tribulation
period, but the great majority of them will likely not fully convert to Christ
and the New Covenant and will mingle the covenants, that is, mix the law,
including the ceremonial law, with some New Testament teachings.


Last edited by northwye on Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:31 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : paragraph format)

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Re: Romans 11: 26, A key Verse For End Time Mingling of the Covenants

Post by zone on Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:48 am



THAT IS FANTASTIC!

thank you northwye !

it's so edifying to see the doctrines being purified, The Lord not leaving us in darkness.

at another forum after a couple of years of wrangling/fighting/being banned...some cracks are beginning to show in the DISPY theology....

PRAISE GOD! added to it is that deadly mix of CHARISMATIC ACTIVITY.

its wearying to go against, but one recent poster had the guts to come forward and say, basically "need help, been addicted to pretrib....should i get rid of Scofield Bible, etc...."

THAT IS SO GOOD TO HEAR...

I'M GLAD YOU ARE WITH US!
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Re: Romans 11: 26, A key Verse For End Time Mingling of the Covenants

Post by Strangelove on Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:32 am

northwye wrote:"Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the
Lord is near in the valley of decision." This verse now takes on a new
meaning for those caught up in dispensationalism than it did when
Billy Graham used to quote it. A valley in scripture indicates a low
spiritual state, while being on the mountains always signals a
spiritual high. Those who have the decision to make about whether to
follow dispensationalism and the other two house theologies -
Messianic Judaism, Hebrew Roots, the Mormons - into an end time
mingling of the covenants are in a low spiritual state. To get out of
this low place, they need to seek the Holy Spirit for the truth of
scripture. They need more of Christ and his mind in them than they
need to be preoccupied with physical Israel.


Brilliant post Northy. I like this bit about the mountain and the valley.

Brings new meaning to Zech 14 which Dispy's like to use as the Kingdom of God on Earth but which I think is the 1st advent and talks metaphorically of the church.

(Zechariah 14:4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
(Zechariah 14:5) And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Didnt our Lord do just that? Didnt He split the spiritual haughtiness of the multitude in Judah when He came?

Many fled to the valley (rejected Him), and remain in spiritual darkness.

You da man Northwye!


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Re: Romans 11: 26, A key Verse For End Time Mingling of the Covenants

Post by zone on Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:03 pm

Strangelove wrote:

Brilliant post Northy. I like this bit about the mountain and the valley.

Brings new meaning to Zech 14 which Dispy's like to use as the Kingdom of God on Earth but which I think is the 1st advent and talks metaphorically of the church.

(Zechariah 14:4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
(Zechariah 14:5) And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Didnt our Lord do just that? Didnt He split the spiritual haughtiness of the multitude in Judah when He came?

Many fled to the valley (rejected Him), and remain in spiritual darkness.

You da man Northwye!


hehehe Doc.

here's another one that's been covered by Amill Cov theologians:

(these are "real" events), but with imagery, and symbolic language used.

keep in mind John is carried forward in time and sees and hears things about all of redemptive history in Revelation.

in the following case, he is seeing (and this is true of the ENTIRE BOOK) what goes on on EARTH/THEN in Heaven...the pattern is always the same in Rev:

CONTEXT: the "scene" on earth

Revelation 13
The Second Beast

11Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence,c and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed. 13It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people, 14and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence ofd the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. 16Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave,e to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. 18This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.


~ so first he "sees" "beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon" - VERY SYMBOLIC LANGUAGE, but real events nevertheless.

again....he is seeing the tribulation or eschaton ON EARTH...

THEN! LOOK WHAT HE SEES AT THE SAME TIME, BUT NOW FROM HEAVEN:


Revelation 14
The Lamb and the 144,000
1Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, 3and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.

WHAT???? is this the mystery of the 144.000 solved?

get this: so he is, as per the ENTIRE BOOK (earth/heaven/earth/heaven/earth/heaven) now looking and seeing THE HEAVENLY REALM.

but in this part of the vision of the Lord and His heavenly followers in the heavenly realm is seen "behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads...."

the theologians i listened to/read say this is merely a parting of the veil again into the Heavenly Realm, and these are HIS FIRSTFRUITS who are WITH HIM NOW!

they are "seen" on Zion (whether on the New, or appearing on the Old) WHILE the events of the son of perdition on earth (trib) are taking place, signifying His ever-presence, and Victory!

~

what do you make of it?

i'll post a very brief chart later which PROVES john's visions are IN SEQUENCE in the way described: (earth/heaven/earth/heaven/earth/heaven)

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Re: Romans 11: 26, A key Verse For End Time Mingling of the Covenants

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