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Christian Zionism

Post by zone on Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:20 pm

THE SUPERMAN THEOLOGY OF
THE INTERNATIONAL CHRISTIAN
EMBASSY'S "FEAST OF TABERNACLES"



October 13, 2002
by: S.R. Shearer



http://www.antipasministries.com/html/file0000095.htm
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:59 pm

Reading now.

This bit caught my eye. Never thought of this b4...

"the people who "buy into" this concept - i.e., those who support the ICEJ - are among Israel's greatest supporters!

Oh? Are they really? Well let's examine their doctrine and find out for ourselves. What you may find out is that
their support for Israel and the Jewish people is PRECONDITIONED on their CONVERSION to Christianity - and if that doesn't happen - AND HAPPEN PRECISELY ON SCHEDULE - that friendship could very well turn to hatred.
"

I.e. World dominion is almost complete , signs in the sky, False messiah is about to turn up ...all these xtian zionists are expecting all jews/whole nation of israel (?? whatever it is) to become Christian and accept this coming messiah as Lord Jesus the Saviour.

Jews HATE Jesus.

Things are gonna turn very nasty when stuff dont go according to plan. Neutral

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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:42 pm

Unfortunately the article falls into the 7 year trib Jews getting right with God when He turns up Zech 12 thingee.

*sigh*

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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by zone on Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:59 pm

sigh....

sorry for the rabbit hole.
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by ada on Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:36 pm


The Final Battle, Christians vs. Pharisees

The bible talks a great deal about the great battle between the followers of Satan and the followers of Christ and it's prophets predict huge wars. Prophets after the bible also talk of a great chastisement. In the past four years I have believed this to be a war between Christians and governments, especially since the first world war and the remnants of communism in American socialist laws and European socialism. What I did not know is who was really behind these governments changing them into anti-life and anti-God atheistic states.
I believe this study may bring me closer to the answer. The first thing needed in fighting a war is to know who the enemy is or you will be attacking innocent people. I now believe that even the extremist Moslem Fundamentalists are a tool of these people, just like communism was. It is a good war tactic to create an enemy of your enemy to draw his attention away from yourself. I now believe that the final battle has been going on since the time of Christ and maybe even from the time of Solomon. See what you think. Let us start with the New Testament.
I spent some time re-reading Christ's dialogue with the Pharisees and wondered what made Christ so angry at them. Half the chapters of the gospels are a verbal and physical war between Christ and the Scribes and Pharisees. The teachings of the Pharisees was not the teaching of Moses. What was it? Christ talked of their "traditions" making void the laws of Moses. These traditions were the commentaries on scripture by the elders.
The true Jewish faith, a prototype of the Catholic faith, was based on three things, faith in the Laws of God, Authority of the seat of Moses, and the Sacrifice of the Lambs by the Levite priests. Faith in the Law and seat of Moses was taken away around the time of Alexander, his wife, Alexandrina and Anthony and Cleopatra. This was a time when a sect called Pharisees became influential and took over the power of the law, not by vote or blood, but by influence with the foreign power.
Josephus, the historian, says that the Pharisees controlled Alexandrina because she was so superstitious. With her backing, "they became the real administrators of the public affairs: they banished and reduced whom they pleased; they bound and loosed men at their pleasure; they had the enjoyment of the royal authority."
They were the secret power behind the government. Remember that!
This continued on till the time of Christ. Josephus says that at the time of Christ there were three sects of Jews, the Pharisees, the Sadducees and the Essens. Of the Essens he said a few strange things: first he says that they were of the blood of Abraham and that they followed the laws of Moses (the Torah) and that using the books of Moses they made prophesies that always came to pass correctly. If they were the blood of Abraham, who were not of the blood of Abraham? If they used the Torah, who did not use the books of the Torah?
What really started the fall of the Jewish empire was not the Romans but the Pharisees who changed the laws of Moses. They changed them by making their own commentaries on the Law more lawful than the Torah itself. These commentaries are called their Talmud. One law changed was the law of offerings to the temple. Under the law of Moses anyone could offer gifts to the temple and it was from foreigners that the great temple of Solomon was built. But the Pharisees became anti-Semitic and under Eleazar, son of Ananias, forbid Romans from offering gifts to the temple. They would not allow any offering, sacrifice or worship by any Roman. The Romans, who had the power, became angered and the wars began and lasted till the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. But we are ahead of our investigation. Let us go back to the death of Christ.
The end of the Sacrifice of the Lamb
According to Jewish law only descendents of Aaron or the tribe of Levi could offer the sacrifice of the lamb, and this was the heart and soul of the faith, as the Eucharist is to Catholics. Catholic priests are made so by the laying on of hands by the bishop, but a Jewish priest is so by blood. Also, according to Jewish laws and traditions, the temple must be kept pure from any profanations, or must go through massive purification rituals before used again.
At the time of the Passion of Christ, Friday was the day of preparation of the lambs for the Passover and as the lambs were being washed, Christ was being scourged, and as the lambs were being dressed for the march to the temple, Christ was being Crowned with thorns, and as the lambs were being marched to the Temple, Christ carried his cross to Calvary, and as the lambs were being slaughtered, Christ hung on the cross.
But when Christ died a great earthquake took place that split the floor of the temple and tore the great curtain in two from the top to the bottom. The inner sanctuary was opened and exposed. The sacred holy ground, that only the high priest could enter or even see was destroyed. No sacrifice of the lamb could be done. Not only that but the dead bodies of the prophets were seen walking into the holy sanctuary and throughout the temple and city. The heart and soul of the Jewish faith, the sacrifice of the lamb, was interrupted and could not be resumed until the temple was repaired and purified.
But from the time of Christ until the final destruction of Jerusalem from 70 to 73 AD, the temple was not repaired or purified because this period was marked by the wars of the Jews, first with each other and then with the Romans.
According to Jewish law and traditions there must be a temple offering in Jerusalem every year to make legal the other offerings in other Temples throughout the world. There has been no temple in Jerusalem since the death of Christ. According to Saint Athanasius, "Only the Antichrist will be able to re-build the Temple of Solomon." To a Catholic the sacrifice of the lambs were only a prototype or shadow of the true sacrifice and even true Jewish Torah scribes taught that what they waited for was the prophesy of Abraham, "God will provide the lamb for the sacrifice" or "The Lamb of God will come and replace the lambs of the old sacrifice."
After Christ 30% of the Jews saw Christ as the lamb of God and saw Christianity as the true Jewish Religion. Pharisees, however, placed no faith in the Torah, but only in their power over the people and their influence with Rome. The final battle started with the two factions of Jews and continues today and will continue till the end of time with the final conversion of the rest of the Jews by Henoch and Elias away from the false Christ, the Anti-Christ.
No Jewish Priests Today

"In Morocco the Jewish tradition says that we know who descend from the Levites and the tribe of Judah, but we do not know who descend really from the great priests- the "cohanim" ( the Cohen). There was two categories of people working in the Temple: the Levites descending from Levi tribe, who were the servants of the priests who were called " Cohanim".(Cohen in plural). The priests" Cohen" descend from Aaron, So people whose name are Cohen, Kahn, Kohn, descend from Aaron, and Levi, Lévy, Lewis etc.. descend from Levi.



"What about the others? The Jewish tradition says that they are spared in the world, and, that only those who descend from the Tribe of Judah are now staying in Israël. That is what was taught to me when I was Jew, now a Catholic.



"God said via the prophets in the Bible that in spite of all the Chastisements given to the Jews during their history, a very few people will at the end escape from extermination because of His Promise done to Abraham, His Misericordial Love, and being together a Father and a Mother to His people. You know well the scriptures!



"I never studied Talmud nor Kabbalah. I studied only Rachi. The Jewish people in Morocco are very nice and very friendly people. They, most of them, are "liberal" that is to say, they ate casher, respected 8 days Easter without eating bread but eat Matsot, respected Yom Kippour (the Great Perdon Day), and Roch Ha Chana (The Jewish New Year).


By former Jew and now Catholic.


However you do not find the word "priest" or "High Priest" used in the Jewish world today because the word denotes a priestly sacrifice for the people and there are no altar sacrifices and have not been since the death of Christ.
Most Jewish Religion today is based on the Talmud and not the Bible
In Luke 11,47-54 we find Christ very angry with how the Jews had corrupted the laws of Moses even in His day.
"Woe to you! You build the memorials of the prophets whom your ancestors killed. Consequently, you bear witness and give consent to the deeds of your ancestors, for they killed them and you do the building. Therefore, the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles; some of them they will kill and persecute' in order that this generation might be charged with the blood of all the prophets shed since the foundation of the world, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who died between the altar and the temple building. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be charged with their blood! Woe to you, scholars of the law! You have taken away the key of knowledge. You yourselves did not enter and you stopped those trying to enter."
I want you to understand something here that most theologians understand that when Christ talks of "this generation" He is speaking of the last age of the world, divided into six ages. The last generation, or this generation, is the age of Christ and His Kingdom, from His birth to the end of the world. What then is He saying here, that Pharisee Jews will be charged with the blood of every prophet from Abel to Christ? At Christ's trial the Pharisee Jews embraced that prophesy when they said in one voice, "Let His Blood be upon us and upon our children." Matt. 27:24
Now do not start sending me emails quoting the Vatican's statement about who Crucified Christ, because all our sins did, but the question here is different. Did the Jewish Religion end with the death of Christ.
What does Christ mean when He says "You have taken away the key of knowledge."? And again Christ, speaking to the Pharisees says: "Why do you transgress the commandments for your traditions?" Ruling the nation by fear and force the Pharisees quoted the Talmud (traditions) and not the commandments, (the Torah).

Starting with the Pharisees and continuing today the Talmud became the law and not the Old Testament Bible, the Torah. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b (Soncino edition):

"My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)."

The Talmuds (there are many of them, some worse than others) are commentaries on the Torah by theologians but in fact they have almost nothing to do with the Scriptures of Moses. They make a pretence to be interpretations of the Torah but as I will show below they have no resemblance to the laws of God.
In Luke 12,1-7. Christ again talks of the Pharisees: "Beware of the leaven--that is, the hypocrisy--of the Pharisees. There is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, nor secret that will not be known. Therefore whatever you have said in the darkness will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered behind closed doors will be proclaimed on the housetops."
Even among the good Torah Jews of the world today, because there is no sacrifice offered, the religion is not the same as the religion of Moses and cannot be.

The Great Harlot of Revelation 17

After the death of Christ the only persecution of Christians (almost all converted Jews) was by the Pharisee Jews including Saul who became St. Paul, but the Pharisee Jews could not destroy Christ's followers (who continued to grow at a fast pace) so they appealed for help from Rome. They sent representatives to Rome to accuse the Christians of wanting to overthrow the Empire. This is what John meant in Revelation 17 when he says that the Great Harlot rode on the back of the beast, Rome. When John sees the seven heads of the beast he sees all the major kingdoms of the world that will also be seduced by the Great Harlot. All these kingdoms will be seduced by the Harlot and war with the Lamb of God, Christ. Rev. 17:14 But in the end the kingdoms will turn on the Harlot as Rome did in 70 AD. However, she will continue to be the power behind earthly kingdoms until that end, when they will be converted to Christ. Rev. 17:18.

Babylon the great of Revelation is Jerusalem

In Revelation 18 we read about Babylon the great and John warning Christians to get out from her. This the Christians did before 70 AD and they went to Caesarea Philippi and hid out while Babylon the Great, Jerusalem, was being destroyed. Jerusalem? Yes! Jerusalem because John goes on to say (Rev. 18:24) "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all that were slain upon the earth." Why would God equate Jerusalem, the city of the great offering of the Lamb of God, with Nimrod's Tower of Babel? In Genesis 10:10 we read that this was the beginning of the kingdom of Babylon, and it goes on to talk of its descendents as Philistines, Samaritans, Canaanites, etc. But we are not talking about blood but of belief and this belief of Nimrod was that he could do whatsoever he wanted without God, even to climb to Heaven with his own power. This is the promise of Satan and his false dream. The final attempt to do this will be by the Antichrist.
...

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Judaism: Christians Who Love Israel

Post by zone on Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:51 pm

The Attitude towards Israel

Apparently, everything is dependent on the attitude towards Israel. The most severe sin of Christianity was its denial of God's choosing Israel to be His Chosen Nation, and all the prophecies of Redemption spoken about the Jewish nation. They thought to replace Israel, and thus, caused us horrendous suffering, trying with all their might to convert Jews to Christianity.


Judaism: Christians Who Love Israel

Published: Friday, September 09, 2011 (?) 1:38 AM four hours after 9-11???

While many countries support the Arabs out of economic interests, or out of fear, or due to false beliefs, the Evangelicals are clearly on our side.



Rabbi Eliezer Melamed

The writer is Head of Yeshivat Har Bracha and a prolific author on Jewish Law, whose works include the series on Jewish law "Pininei Halacha" and a popular weekly column "Revivim" in the Besheva newspaper. His books "The Laws of Prayer" "The Laws of Passover" and "Nation, Land, Army" are presently being translated into English. Other articles by Rabbi Melamed can be viewed at: www.yhb.org.il/1 ► More from this writer


Christians Who Love Israel

In recent years, we have witnessed increasing support for Israel by Christian Evangelicals and other Christians in America. They view the establishment of the State of Israel as the miraculous fulfillment of the vision of Prophets in the Bible.

As they see it, the Jewish nation returned to its land, and as written in the Bible, the soil yields its produce, "For the Lord shall comfort Zion: He will comfort all her waste places; and He will make her wilderness like Eden and her desert like the garden of the Lord (Isaiah 51:3)."

They see the settlements and vineyards and are deeply moved, for behold, it is the fulfillment of the prophecy: "And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them" (Isaiah 65:21). "And I will bring back the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink their wine; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them" (Amos 9:14).

While many countries support the Arabs out of economic interests, or out of fear, or due to false beliefs, the Evangelicals are clearly on our side. Their point of view is very important, for they are a significant component in America, which is presently the strongest country in the world.

However, for many Jews the question arises: How should we relate to Christians who suddenly have become our friends? For nearly two thousand years, they persecuted the Jewish nation, murdered, plundered, expelled, coerced us to convert to Christianity, and suddenly they love us? Can we believe them? And what do we do with what the Rambam (Maimonides) wrote, that Christianity has the status of idol worship?

Notice and Disclosure

In order to be above suspicion, and so that I can write my opinions without any personal interests, I hereby promise, God willing, not to accept for myself, or for Yeshiva Har Bracha, donations from Christian friends of Israel. In the past, without my knowledge, a representative of the Yeshiva obtained a considerable donation from Christian lovers of Israel. After they had already agreed to donate, it would not have been polite to refuse.

Nevertheless, we are searching for ways to contribute an equal amount of money towards positive activities amongst the Gentiles

The Attitude towards Israel

Apparently, everything is dependent on the attitude towards Israel. The most severe sin of Christianity was its denial of God's choosing Israel to be His Chosen Nation, and all the prophecies of Redemption spoken about the Jewish nation. They thought to replace Israel, and thus, caused us horrendous suffering, trying with all their might to convert Jews to Christianity. This is why the Sages amended the 'birkat Ha'minim' (the blessing on the heretics), or as the Rambam wrote (Laws of Prayer 2:1): "They would cause anguish to Israel, and incite them to turn away from Hashem."

It is no accident that the litmus test in this world for morality, truth, and faith – is the attitude towards Israel. Faith was revealed in the world by the Jewish nation, through Avraham, Yitzchak, and Yaacov, the Exodus from Egypt, and the receiving of the Torah. Since then, God reveals Himself to the world through the events of Israel, in kindness and in judgment, in reward, punishment, and consolation, as written in the Torah and the Prophets

The Change in Recent Times

In recent times, we have witnessed significant changes in the attitude towards Israel. Our return to our Land, and our establishment in it, our eternal existence despite the murders and the Holocaust, the creation of the State of Israel, the prospering agriculture, standing-up to our surrounding enemies – all this aroused significant questions and new ideas within them.

Some hated us because, according to their understanding, our very existence here in Israel contradicts their faith, and under various pretexts, they always support our enemies. In contrast, today there are quite a few who believe, to some extent, that Israel is the Chosen Nation, who must return to their land, settle it, and occupy themselves with Torah and mitzvoth. They see it as a privilege to help fulfill the prophecies in the Bible.

That being the case, when it comes to Christians who believe that God chose Israel, and that all of the good prophecies should be realized within Israel, and they are not working to convert us, God forbid, rather, to strengthen us – then all the severe things mentioned about Christians do not apply to them. On the contrary – great tikun is being made by them, they are righteous Gentiles, and God will reward them.

Tommy Waller

Recently, I met a Christian American, Tommy Waller, and I asked him: 'If a Jew were to come to you and ask, what's better: to be a Jew or a Christian, what would you say to him?' He replied: 'I would tell him to be a Jew.' 'Although,' he added, 'I didn't always think that way. At first, all Christians want everyone to be Christian, but this position stems from ignorance.'

To his regret, people are publicizing things against him that he said in the past. After having visited Israel, he began to recognize the great value of the Jewish nation. He told me that he read in the Book of Isaiah (chapter 61:5): "And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your ploughmen and your vinedressers," and he was totally filled with excitement and thought to himself, 'Maybe I'll get to realize this holy verse!'

He encourages people to visit Israel and help work the land, while being aware of what is said in the following verses concerning Israel: "But you shall be named, Priests of the Lord: men shall say of you, Ministers of our God…and their seed shall be known among the nations, and their offspring among peoples: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the Lord has blessed."

Words of Rabbi Kook ztz"

"Concerning faiths which have diverted from the Torah, such as Christianity and Islam, the essence of their venom does not lie in their concept of divinity, which is different from what it should be according to the fundamental light of the Torah, but rather what stems from this – the obliteration of practical mitzvoth, and the cancellation of the [Jewish] nation's hope in relation to its complete revival" ("Shmoneh K'vatzim", kovetz A: 32).

As We Learned in the Torah Portion

Similarly, we learn in this week's Torah portion that treatment of the nations is determined according to their attitude towards Israel (Deuteronomy 23:4-9): 'An Ammonite or Moabite [man] may not enter God's marriage group. They may never enter God's marriage group, even after the tenth generation. This is because they did not greet you with bread and water when you were on the way out of Egypt, and also because they hired Balaam son of Beor from Pethor in Aram Naharaim to curse you…

You must never seek peace or anything good [with these nations], as long as you exist. Do not despise the Edomite, since he is your brother. Do not despise the Egyptian, since you were an immigrant in his land. [Therefore,] children born to [members of these nations] in the third generation [after becoming proselytes] may enter God's marriage group."

Our Attitude towards Amalek

Likewise, the severe attitude towards Amalek is determined according to their behavior towards Israel (Deuteronomy 25:17-19): "Remember what Amalek did to you on your way out of Egypt…" Also in 'halakhah' (Jewish law), all is dependent on the attitude towards Israel, inasmuch as before going to war against the nations, we must first call for peace – and this is also the law concerning Amalek. If they accept upon themselves to keep the seven Noahide commandments, with faith in Hashem the God of Israel, and agree to pay taxes – we cease fighting and killing them (Rambam, Laws of Kings 6:1-4, Kesef Mishneh, there).

Thus, the entire reason for the severe attitude towards Amalek is because they are a nation which embodies profound hatred towards Israel

Opinions in Jewish Law

The arbiters of Jewish law are divided on the question of whether Christianity is truly idol worship or not. According to the Rambam, Christianity is idol worship, since they believe that Jesus is god, and this has practical, 'halakhic' significance: it is everlastingly forbidden to do business with them (Rambam, Laws of Idol Worship, 9:4).

According to the opinion of Tosephot (Tractate Chulin 13b), even though they say he is god, it is only a custom of their ancestors, but in truth, they do not believe that he really is god, and therefore, it is permissible to do business with them.

All this is in relation to Catholics, for they have idols. But concerning Protestants who don't have idols, there is room to say that perhaps even the Rambam would be lenient.

Then, there is another question: Are the 'B'nei Noach' commanded not to worship idols in partnership, such as the trinity? In other words, if they believe in Hashem, the God of the heavens and earth, and also include an idol in their faith, do they thus transgress the prohibition of idol worship, which is one of the seven Noahide commandments? Or, are they not considered idol worshippers, but simply mistaken in this issue? The accepted 'halakhah' is that 'B'nei Noach' are not commanded concerning idol worship in partnership (Ran, Rabbeinu Yerucham in the name of Tosephot, Ra'ma, Orach Chaim 156:1).

There are some authorities who were entirely lenient, and according to their opinion, moral nations, in spite of being Catholic, since, as a rule, they believe in the unity of God, their 'halachic' status is that of 'gerim toshavim' (foreign residents), which is the highest status (Meiri, Maharitz Chiut).

\Those authorities who followed in their path, also wanted to be lenient in relation to the Germans, because they were a seemingly enlightened and civilized nation – until reality came and proved them wrong. Nevertheless, when it comes to those who love Israel, according to their opinion, they certainly can be considered 'gerim toshavim'.

For even according to the opinion of the Rambam, it is unclear whether the Protestants are considered idol worshippers in partnership; it is more likely that according to all opinions, they are not defined as idol worshippers, and their status is that of fulfilling the seven Noahide commandments and, in general, monotheists.

Who is Closer to Us

These Christians are closer to us than the secular, liberal leftists in Western countries, both in their faith in the Bible, and their ethics. Apparently, their perception of Human Rights is much more profound and meaningful as compared to the leftist view which, at times, is superficial and shallow.

The leftists constantly sing the praises of Human Rights, but in practice, they support the Arabs and Muslims, who, at present, are the most discriminatory group of Human Rights in the world.

Take for example, Martin Luther King, Jr., one of America's greatest human and moral leaders, who was a Baptist priest (one of the Evangelical denominations), and truly expressed the values of Human Rights. He based this on Biblical faith, and similarly, was a lover of Israel.

In a letter to an anti-Zionist friend in 1967, he wrote: "In the Western countries, once again it is not popular to publically express hate for the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite always searches for methods, ways, and new forums to dispense his poison. So, once again, he does not hate the Jews. He's only anti-Zionist. However, my friend… there is no room for mistake. When people hurl accusations at Zionism – their real goal are the Jews."

From the walls of his prison cell, where he sat for charges on his struggle for equal rights, he wrote: "I am sure that had I been in Nazi Germany in those times, I would have helped my Jewish brothers, and encouraged them, even though it meant violating the law…

Righteous Gentiles

There is still room to ask: Maybe there are some missionaries amongst our friends who want to convert us? Indeed, if such a thing is proven – they must be fought.

However, as far as anyone who has not been proven to be a missionary is concerned, we must return to the basic, appropriate conduct – respect and love. As Rabbi Kook said: "Love of creation…should spread to all mankind, despite all the differing opinions, religions and faiths, despite all the differences of races and climates…only on a soul rich in love of the creation and man, can love of the nationrise in all its pride and grace, and spiritual and practical greatness…"

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/10597
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by Strangelove on Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:12 pm

In a letter to an anti-Zionist friend in 1967, he wrote: "In the Western
countries, once again it is not popular to publically express hate for
the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite always searches for
methods, ways, and new forums to dispense his poison. So, once again, he
does not hate the Jews. He's only anti-Zionist. However, my friend…
there is no room for mistake. When people hurl accusations at Zionism –
their real goal are the Jews."

Cannot find this Martin Luther King quote anywhere other than this article.



(not that it matters....King was a fraud and a tool)

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Christian Zionism and Messianic Judaism

Post by zone on Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:41 pm

Christian Zionism and Messianic Judaism

Chapter 8 of
The Sociology of the Church
Essays in Reconstruction
James B. Jordan, Th. M.

CHAPTER 8
CHRISTIAN ZIONISM AND MESSIANIC JUDAISM

One of the most grotesque aspects of the sociology of modern American protestantism is the phenomenon of Christian Zionism. While related to the theology of dispensationalism, Christian Zionism is actually something altogether different theologically. The purpose of this chapter is to explore this movement, and in particular to point out its grievously heretical theoretical basis. To facilitate discussion, we shall interact with the expressed beliefs of a Christian Zionist, Jerry Falwell. We close with a brief note on Messianic Judaism.

Zionism
Zionism is a political movement built on the belief that the Jewish people deserve by right to possess the land of Palestine as their own. During the last part of the 19th and first part of the 20th centuries, Zionism gained support throughout the Christian West. This was due to two factors: the influence that Jewish wealth could purchase among politicians, and the emotional sup-port that the history of Jewish tribulation could elicit from a Christianized public conscience.1

With this support, Zionist guerillas succeeded in throwing Palestine into havoc during the late 1940s, and eventually took over that land, The result was the disenfranchisement of the people who had historically dwelt there. The Moslem Palestinians were formally disenfranchised, and the Palestinian Jews were effectively disenfranchised as a result of being swamped by larger numbers of European Jews who immigrated to the new State of Israel.

It is important to realize that the most conservative Jews were anti-Zionists, believing that Palestine was not to become a Jewish land until made so by the coming of the Messiah. (This viewpoint was dramatized in the recent and rewarding film, The Chosen. ) Much of the most severe criticism of the political Zionist movement has come from anti-Zionist Jews, the most noted being Alfred M. Lilienthal.2

Spurious criticisms of Zionism abound on the right. I have no wish to be associated with these, and so at the outset I want to critique them before dealing with the heresy of Christian Zionism. First of all, we hear from some rightist sources that it is a myth that 6,000,000 Jews were slaughtered by the National Socialists. It is argued that there were not that many Jews in Europe, that it would be impossible logistically to do away with that many people given the time and facilities that the Nazis had, and so forth. This may be true; I have absolutely no way of knowing. The argument, however, seems to be that virtually no Jews were slaughtered by Nazis, and this is nonsense. Even if the number is 600,000 rather than six million, the event is still a moral horror of astonishing magnitude. Even if only one man were killed simply because he was a Jew, this would be a moral horror. And there can be no doubt but that many, many Jews were slaughtered.

Of course, a blasphemous theology has been erected upon this in some Jewish circles, which is the notion that the Nazi persecutions fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah 53, and that the Jews suffered for the sins of the world. As Christians we can only abominate such a construction, and we must call it what it is: a Satanic lie. Still, it is not necessary to deny the event itself in order to argue against an evil theological construction put upon the event.

Perhaps more common is the assertion that most modern Jews are not Jews at all: They are Khazars.3 The Khazari race seems to lie behind the Ashkenazik Jews of Eastern Europe. This kind of assertion can, of course, be debated. The real problem in the discussion is the notion that Jewishness is a blood or racial phenomenon. It is not.

Biblically speaking, a Jew is someone who is covenanted into the people of the Jews by circumcision, for better or for worse. When Abraham was commanded to circumcise, he was told to circumcise his entire household, including his 318 fighting men and his other domestic servants (Gen. 14:14; 17:10-14). Competent scholars imagine that Sheik Abraham’s household probably included at the very least 3000 persons. These servants multiplied as the years went by, and Jacob inherited them all (Gen. 27:37). Although only 70 from the loins of Jacob went down into Egypt, so many servants went along that they had to be given the whole land of Goshen in which to live.

All these people were Jews, but only a small fraction actually had any of Abraham’s blood in them. Later on we see many other people joining the Jews; indeed, the lists of David’s men include many foreigners, of whom Uriah the Hittite is but the best known. What this demonstrates is that covenant, not race, has always been the defining mark of a Jew (as it also is of a Christian). Genealogical records were kept for the immediate family, of course, since the Messiah had to be of the actual blood of Abraham, and later of David; but this could not have applied to more than a fraction of the total number of people.

Thus, the Jews are those who claim to be Jews, who are covenanted with the Jews. The Khazari converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages, and they are Jews, British-Israelite rightist nonsense to the contrary.4 (Of course, modern Zionists do not understand this religious principle any more than do their British-Israelite critics. Both conceive of everything in terms of blood and race.)

So then, it is spurious to criticize Zionism on the grounds that "Jews really didn’t suffer during World War II," or "Who knows who the real Jews are?" It is pretty obvious who the Jews are, and they are, as always, a force to be reckoned with.

The third line of criticism against Zionism concerns the rightness or wrongness of its invasion and conquest of Palestine. We can listen to arguments to the effect that the Jews stole the land from its inhabitants, that they have persecuted the Palestinians, that they committed horrors during their guerilla campaign, and the like. Then we can listen to arguments that say that the Jews in Palestine were mistreated under Moslem rule, that the Palestinians are better off today under enlightened Jewish government than they formerly were, that the Jews have exercised dominion over the land and the Moslems did not, thereby forfeiting their right to it, and the like.

Actually, none of this is any of our direct concern as Christians. As Christians we see both Jews and Moslems as groups that have rejected Christ as Messiah, and who have opposed the true faith. If they want to convert, we rejoice. If they want to kill each other off, then that is too bad, but let them have at it — there’s nothing we can do about it.

But then, that brings us to the issue: Are Bible-believing Christians supposed to support a Jewish State, for theological reasons? Such is the assertion of Jerry Falwell, and of the heresy of Christian Zionism. Let us turn to this doctrine.

Orthodox Dispensationalism versus Christian Zionism
During the nineteenth century, a peculiar doctrinal notion known as "dispensationalism" arose. Its leading lights were Darby and Scofield; its Bible was the Scofield Reference Bible; and in re-cent years its primary headquarters has been Dallas Theological Seminary. Technically, dispensationalism teaches that God has two peoples in the history of the world: Israel and the "Church." We presently live in the "Church Age ," and God’s people today are Christians, the Church. At the present time, the Jews are apostate enemies of God and of Christ, and are under God’s judgment until they repent.

Someday soon (it’s always soon!), Christ will return to earth invisibly and snatch away all the Church-Christians (this is called the "Rapture" of the saints). At that point, God will go back to dealing with Israel. There will be a seven-year period called "The Tribulation," and during that period, apostate Jewry will form an anti-God alliance with the Beast, but God will begin to convert the Jews, and in time the Beast will turn and begin to persecute these converted Jews. Just when things look hopeless, Christ will return and inaugurate the Millennium.

One other point to note: There are absolutely no signs that the Rapture of the Church is near. It will come "as a thief in the night."

Now, this entire scheme, though popular in recent years, has no roots in historic Christian interpretation of the Scriptures, and at present it is collapsing under the weight of criticism from Bible-believing scholars of a more historically orthodox persuasion. All the same, there are several things to note.

First, by teaching that there are no signs that precede the Rapture, dispensationalism clearly implies that the modern State of Israel has nothing to do with Bible prophecy. If Israel collapsed to-morrow, it would make no difference. The existence of the State of Israel, while it may encourage dispensationalists to believe that the Rapture is near, is of no theologically prophetic importance.

Second, dispensationalism teaches that Jews of today, and even into the Tribulation period, are apostate, and this certainly implies that they are under the wrath and judgment of God. Christians should minister to them, and try to convert them, and show them all kindness as fellow human beings; but Christians should understand that during the Church Age, the Jews are not the people of God. Rather, the Church is the people of God today.

Third, by teaching that Israel is "set aside" during the Church Age, dispensationalism clearly implies that the promises made to Israel are also "set aside" during that period. The land promise, and the promise "those who bless you, I will bless," have been set aside, until we re-enter "prophetic time." Thus, the Jews have no right to the land during the Church Age, and also there is no particular blessing for Gentiles who treat the Jews with especial favor.

Fourth, dispensational theologians are most strict on the point that the Church is a "new people ," composed as one body in Christ of both Jew and Gentile. During the Church Age, the distinction between these two is not to be felt in the Church. Thus, dispensational theology is, by implication, opposed to the kind of stand-point articulated in many "Messianic Jewish" groups.

What I am setting forth is standard, consistent dispensationalism. As far as I am concerned, dispensationalism is sorely wrong in its prophetic view, but it is at least orthodox in its view of salvation and blessing. Blessing comes to the Jews when they repent and accept Christ; until then, they are under God’s curse. How can it be otherwise? All blessings are in Christ. This is the teaching of orthodox Christianity, and Darby and the early dispensationalists were orthodox Christians on this point, as far as I can tell.

Jerry Falwell and Christian Zionism
My description of dispensationalism may seem rather strange, because this is not the teaching of Hal Lindsey, of the modern Dallas Theological Seminary, or of other modern dispensationalists. I call these people "pop-dispies ," for short. In contrast to the dispensational system, these people hold that God presently has two peoples on the earth: the Church and Israel. The consistent dispensational system teaches that there are no prophecies whose fulfillment takes place during the Church Age, because the Church exists outside of prophetic time, but modern pop-dispies teach that the reestablishment of the nation of Israel in 1948 was a fulfillment of prophecy.

Consistent dispensationalism teaches that God is dealing with His "heavenly" people today (the Church), and that during the Church Age, God has "set aside" His apostate "earthly" people (Israel). Pop-dispies, on the contrary, hold that even though apostate, Israel still must be regarded as being under God’s present blessing. They hold the heretical notion that the Jews do not need to repent in order to obtain the blessings of God’s covenant. They hold the un-Biblical notion that apostate Jewry is not today under the wrath of God.

A well-known advocate of this unfortunate position is the Rev. Jerry Falwell. A modern Zionist, Merrill Simon, has recognized this fact, and has written a book, Jerry Falwell and the Jews.5 This book is a series of interviews with Rev. Falwell, designed to present him as a friend of Zionism, and to alleviate suspicions that liberal Zionist Jews naturally have when it comes to a supposedly orthodox, fundamental Christian preacher.

I should like to cite some quotations from this book, and make some appropriate comments. The books says, however, "No part of this book may be reproduced in any manner without prior written consent from the publishers," which rather cramps my style. You’ll just have to believe me, as I summarize Falwell’s comments. You can always go to your local library and look it up for yourself.

On page 13, Falwell is asked if he considers the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 as a sign of God’s rejection of Israel. Falwell answers by saying that he surely does not believe a "vengeful" God brought the Roman army to Jerusalem to destroy the Jews. Falwell ascribes the event rather to anti-Semitism.

Now let’s hear what the Bible says about it. We needn’t quote Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 in their entirety. Read them at your leisure, and ask this question: Do we see an angry, "vengeful" God here threatening to bring horrors upon Israel if they apostatize? Also read Psalm 69:21 and ask Whom this refers to, and then continue reading until the end of the Psalm, remembering that the Romans surrounded Jerusalem at Passover time.

Notice Psalm 69:25 speaks of the "desolation" of Jerusalem, and consider that in connection with Jesus’ pronouncement of the desolation of Jerusalem in Matthew 23:38. Falwell is completely out of line with Scripture on this point.

On page 25, Falwell says that he believes anti-Semitism is inspired exclusively by Satan, as part of his opposition to God. Against this, read Job chapters 1 and 2. Here we find that Satan is never allowed to do anything without God’s permission. More-over, we find from the rest of the Bible that God frequently raises up enemies against His people, as scourges to punish them. Read the Book of Judges. Read Kings and Chronicles about Assyria and Babylon. Read Habakkuk. This is not some minor point tucked away in some obscure passage. Rather, this truth pervades the entire Scriptures.

It is true that anti-Jewish feelings are not part of the Christian message, and that Christians should be as considerate toward Jews as they are toward all other men. It is also true, however, that it is God Who stirs up the Babylonians and Assyrians. Until the Jews repent and convert (as Romans 11 promises that someday they shall), they remain God’s enemies, and He does stir up pagans against them. Anti-Jewishness has been part and parcel of secular humanism from the time of Frederick II, through the Renaissance, down to today. The Christian church protected the Jews throughout the Middle Ages, and has continued to do so.6

On page 55, Falwell says that Jews and Christian may differ at some points, but they have a common heritage in the Old Testament. Would Falwell be willing to say the same to a Moslem? At any rate, the statement is incorrect. Judaism looks to the Talmud, not to the Bible, as its law. It shows extreme ignorance of Judaism, medieval or modern, to think that Christians can appeal to the Old Testament as common ground. Judaism never approaches the Bible except through the Talmud.

On page 62, Falwell says that the future of the State of Israel is more important than any other political question. He says that the Jews have a theological, historical, and legal right to Pales-tine. He affirms his personal commitment to Zionism, and says that he learned Zionism from the Old Testament.

The Bible teaches us that when Adam and Eve rebelled, they lost their right to the Garden, and God cast them out. God used the very same principle with Israel, giving them the land, but warning them over and over again that if they rebelled, they would be cast out. It is beyond me how Falwell can read the Old Testament Scriptures and fail to see this. Modern apostate Jews have absolutely no theological, and therefore no historical and legal right to the land of Palestine.

The church of all ages has always taught that the New Testament equivalent of the "land" is the whole world, in Christ, and ultimately the New Earth. God’s people, Christ-confessors, are given the whole earth, in principle, and progressively will take dominion over it in time. Even if dispensationalism were correct in its assertion that someday the land of Palestine will be given back to the Jews, we should still have to say that they must convert to Christ first!

On page 68, Falwell says that one thing in modern Israel disturbs him. It is that Christians do not have the liberty to evangelize for the gospel. In other words, Falwell is aware that Christians are being persecuted in Israel today, but he still supports Israel! If this is not a betrayal of the faith, what is?

Finally, on p. 145, Falwell is asked about abortion, since modern Jews advocate abortion. Simon asks him whether or not the death penalty should be used against a woman who has an abortion, and her physician. Falwell replies that he has never thought about this before, and that he thinks any action against the woman would be wrong.

Well, there we see it. Mr. Simon knows what the issues really are, but Rev. Falwell is so confused, befuddled, and blind that he cannot see them. Obviously, if abortion is murder, then we have to advocate the death penalty for it! Of course, Falwell here sounds just like most of the rest of the modern anti-abortion movement: They’ve never even thought about some of the most basic, elementary issues involved. "Abortion is murder," they cry. "Reinstitute the death penalty for murder," says the Moral Majority (Falwell’s political group). Anybody with an IQ over 25 can figure out the implications of these two statements, but apparently Falwell has never thought of this before. We live in sorry times, when such a novice is the spokesman for the New Christian Right!

Christian Zionism is blasphemy. It is a heresy. Christians have no theological stake whatsoever in the modern State of Israel. It is an anti-God, anti-Christ nation. Until it repents and says "blessed is He Who comes in the Name of the Lord," it will continue to be under the wrath of God. The modern State of Israel permits the persecution of Christians and Christian missionaries. We must pray that God will change the hearts of Jews, as of all other pagans, to receive Christ. But to support the enemies of the Gospel is not the mark of a Gospel minister, but of an anti-Christ.

I’ve been pretty hard on Jerry. Somebody needs to be. This kind of thing is inexcusable, and needs to be repented of. A couple of years ago I wrote an essay defending Falwell against a some-what liberal critic.7 What I have said here does not change what I wrote then, because Falwell’s critic was wrong; but I have certainly come to take a dimmer view of Mr. Falwell since. His trumpet is giving forth an uncertain sound. He needs to clean it out.

Messianic Judaism
In recent years, a large number of Jewish young people have turned to Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Many of these young people have formed "Messianic Synagogues," and have articulated here and there various theologies of "Messianic Judaism." For many, Messianic Judaism is simply a way of keeping some Jewish cultural traditions while becoming Christian, and there is nothing wrong with this. It is proper for Christians of various tribes and tongues to give expression to the faith in a variety of cultural forms.

Unfortunately, for some, Messianic Judaism is seen as an alternative to historic Christianity. This is due to the influence of pop-dispyism. After all, if the Millennium is right around the corner, and Jewish culture will be imperialistically triumphant during the Millennium, then even today Jewish practices anticipate that superiority. In fact, some Messianic Jews apparently believe that they can claim unlimited financial support from Gentile Christians, because of this preeminence.8

Most of what I have written regarding Christian Zionism above applies to this group of Messianic Jews. I should like, however, to call attention to another facet of the matter. These Messianic Jews believe wrongly that Gentile Christianity (the historic church) departed from Biblical forms in the early days of the church. They see as their mission a restoration of these customs, which they believe they have preserved.

In fact, this is completely false. Anyone who has seen a presentation of "Christ in the Passover" is amazed at the number of non-Biblical rites that are discussed and exhibited (the use of eggs, bread broken in three pieces and hidden in cloth, etc.). These customs arose after the birth of the church, and do not preserve Old Testament ritual at all. Moreover, to try to place a Christian interpretation on the various features of these rituals is most misguided and artificial. Clever as such presentations are, they are grossly misleading.

As a matter of fact, the leading features of Temple and Synagogue worship were brought straight into the church, as she spoiled the new enemies of God: apostate Jewry. The period of this spoiling was A.D. 30 to A.D. 70. Once the church had completed her integration of the spoils of the Old Covenant into her new, transfigured body, God destroyed the remnants of the Old Covenant completely. Modern Jewish rituals and music owe far more to racial/cultural inheritance from the peoples of Eastern Europe than they do to the Old Covenant.9

Thus, while there is nothing wrong with converted Jews maintaining a cultural continuity with their past, there are no grounds for the assumption that post-Christian Jewry has preserved the musical and liturgical forms of the Bible. Those forms were preserved in the church, and in her alone. Jews who wish to recover their heritage would do well to study the early Church, not the traditions of Eastern European cultures.


End Notes


  1. On the former aspect, see Ronald Sanders, The High Walls of Jerusalem: A History of the Balfour Declaration and the Birth of the British Mandate for Palestine (New York: Holt, Rinehart, & Winston, 1984). [1]
  2. Lilienthal has authored several books on this subject. His magnum opus is The Zionist Connection (New York: Dodd, Mead, & Co., 1978). [2]
  3. On the Khazars, see Arthur Koestler, The Thirteenth Tribe (New York: Random House, 1976.) [3]
  4. British-Israelitism claims that the Anglo-Saxon people are the true Jews, and thus inherit the covenant promises by means of race alone. This weird, stupid idea is promoted by the Armstrong cult, but also crops up in right wing Christian circles. For a fine analysis and refutation of this viewpoint, see Louis F. Boer, The New Phariseeism (Columbus, NJ: The American Presbyterian Press, 1978). [4]
  5. Middle Village, NY: Jonathon David Publishers, Inc., 1984. [5]
  6. On the church’s protection of the Jews, see Harold J. Berman (himself a Jew), Law and Revolution: The Formation of the Western Legal Tradition (Cambridge: Harvard U. Press, 1983), pp. 90, 222. [6]
  7. See my essay, "The Moral Majority: An Anabaptist Critique?", in James B. Jordan, ed. The Failure of the American Baptist Culture. Christianity and Civilization No. 1 (Tyler, TX: Geneva Ministries, 1982). [7]
  8. See Gary North, "Some Problems with ‘Messianic Judaism,’" in Biblical Economics Today 7:3 (Apr./May, 1984). [8]
  9. Louis Bouyer has shown at considerable length that the Eucharistic prayer of the early church was a modification of the prayers of the synagogue and Temple. See Bouyer, Eucharist (Notre Dame: U. of Notre Dame Press, 1968). Similarly, Eric Werner has shown that the plainchant of the Christian church preserves the style of music known among the Jews of the Old Testament period. See Werner, The Sacred Bridge (Columbia U. Press, 1959; the paperback by Schocken only reproduces the first half of this important study). [9]

Used by Permission - Copyright ©1986 by James B. Jordan, Th. M.
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by zone on Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:46 pm

as a dispy the guy must still be a millennialist..

so what purpose the 1,000 years then bub?
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by zone on Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:06 am

Can We Be Christian Hybrids?
6/12/2011 (SUN) | Bible: Deuteronomy 7:1-4; 2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1












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A Reformed Jewish Synagogue in Chicago is reported as having people of a hybrid faith mixture attending, this enormously relates to Evangelicals doing the same kind of thing.



http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=61211153263
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by Abiding on Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:09 pm

Anyone have cut to the chase reading on Holocaust...there
has been way to much to dig through. It seems to be a trough
to find what you want to find. I talked last night to a saudi woman
who converted to Christ....met american christians and went back to
Islam...after talking to her some...she asked me to teach her that
americans were brainwashed so she could convert back. Aparently
muslims have a problem converting to a faith that wants to nuke em.

I have a 1980 dna report on the ethnicity of present Israel
residents anyone have anything current? Also id like a makeup
of just what ethnicity they are..im facing scholars that are unknowingly
trained to call me a conspiritist. Is Israel made up of ethnic jews or
not. Israel is the only thing i must figure out...people who know me
call on me...im finding myself unwilling to open the can of worms
feeling they are better off where they are...if i cant offer them solid ground.

Im still having a problem with Ps 83 and other similar prophecies
that i cant see fulfilled which keeps me in limbo. Why would God
be toasting Israels neighbors? Why would He protect imposters?

What is the theory for the cause of nearly every christian in the us
believing Israel is Gods hand at work? If a lie was told...ok I can buy that....but what about the Church? Why would it be being used?
Apostasy? thats all I can come up with.

I understand you guys may not understand my questions and whether
you know it are not...your lightyears from the basic understanding of
this present day. But its impossible to even converse about a amil
position without basically ripping the rug out from peoples whole world
view.

What the hell is Israel? I dont care much anymore who started it and why. I havnt been able to make the decision....Is this the work of God?
I do understand He decided on this before the world began...and that
it will work out His will...but where am I in this? I just started a biblestudy on romans and will be racing to get more study done before
we get to chapters 10-11. Teaching is a very serious thing to me...even
tho i can teach 2 or 3 possibilities in a class and leave it to them(disclaimer) I am suffering unrest and have now for about 6 months.

So anyway I vented some. But really doesnt help...I cant stand having
to choose anything that is untestable, unprovable, believable maybe
but so subject to error with little solid evidence i can offer myself or
others...Im know you guys may have a hard time thinking back to my
position...yet some of you were not even in the comfy dispy camp.

If this post is clutter u may delete it...i stop by from time to time to read..its ok.

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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by ada on Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:33 pm

Sorry but what was your question ? Embarassed

I S R A E L

ISIS RA EL.
http://the-red-thread.net/IS-RA-EL.html

And this inner link:
http://the-red-thread.net/marduk-yhwh-comparisons.html

Esther-Isthar : Mordekai-Marduk = babylonian deities..

http://zionistoutrage.com/esther-the-book-that-shouldnt-be-in-the-bible/
Listen to Ted Pike's sermon on the book of esther.
http://www.truthtellers.org/biblestudies/11_17mar_BookOfEsther.mp3

Forget about it!
Its all about Jesus Christ!!
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by zone on Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:03 am

Abiding wrote:Anyone have cut to the chase reading on Holocaust...there
has been way to much to dig through. It seems to be a trough
to find what you want to find. I talked last night to a saudi woman
who converted to Christ....met american christians and went back to
Islam...after talking to her some...she asked me to teach her that
americans were brainwashed so she could convert back. Aparently
muslims have a problem converting to a faith that wants to nuke em.

I have a 1980 dna report on the ethnicity of present Israel
residents anyone have anything current? Also id like a makeup
of just what ethnicity they are..im facing scholars that are unknowingly
trained to call me a conspiritist. Is Israel made up of ethnic jews or
not. Israel is the only thing i must figure out...people who know me
call on me...im finding myself unwilling to open the can of worms
feeling they are better off where they are...if i cant offer them solid ground.

Im still having a problem with Ps 83 and other similar prophecies
that i cant see fulfilled which keeps me in limbo. Why would God
be toasting Israels neighbors? Why would He protect imposters?

What is the theory for the cause of nearly every christian in the us
believing Israel is Gods hand at work? If a lie was told...ok I can buy that....but what about the Church? Why would it be being used?
Apostasy? thats all I can come up with.

I understand you guys may not understand my questions and whether
you know it are not...your lightyears from the basic understanding of
this present day. But its impossible to even converse about a amil
position without basically ripping the rug out from peoples whole world
view.

What the hell is Israel? I dont care much anymore who started it and why. I havnt been able to make the decision....Is this the work of God?
I do understand He decided on this before the world began...and that
it will work out His will...but where am I in this? I just started a biblestudy on romans and will be racing to get more study done before
we get to chapters 10-11. Teaching is a very serious thing to me...even
tho i can teach 2 or 3 possibilities in a class and leave it to them(disclaimer) I am suffering unrest and have now for about 6 months.

So anyway I vented some. But really doesnt help...I cant stand having
to choose anything that is untestable, unprovable, believable maybe
but so subject to error with little solid evidence i can offer myself or
others...Im know you guys may have a hard time thinking back to my
position...yet some of you were not even in the comfy dispy camp.

If this post is clutter u may delete it...i stop by from time to time to read..its ok.


hi mike:

i'll be starting a new research thread (just compiling data, summary and conclusions at the end) asap. don't know how long it will take.

yes, dispensational/christian zionist evangelicals/hebrew roots advocates/Ten Lost Tribers (british-Israelism) et al are in the enemy camp. i hope they wake up and repent)

i suppose its the sifting...Jesus said the elect could not ultimately be deceived, so i suppose He is on the threshing floor.



i dont know why people who claim His Name dont believe Him when he said His Kingdom is not of this world...and to BEWARE THE LEAVEN OF THE PHARISEES. people don't even think the Pharisees still exist.

oh well....i used all my resources...just gonna work here now. times a little short.

here are some things to start off with:



Identifying Gog and Magog

In the 6th century, the Byzantine historian Procopius (d. after 562) saw Attila and the Huns as the nation locked out by Alexander, and a little later other Christian writers identified them with the Saracens.[32] Still later, Gog and Magog became identified with the Khazars, whose empire dominated Central Asia in the 9th and 10th centuries. In his 9th century work Expositio in Matthaeum Evangelistam, the Benedictine monk Christian of Stavelot referred to them as descendants of Gog and Magog, and says they are "Circumcised and observing all [the laws of] Judaism";[33] the 14th century Sunni scholar Ibn Kathir also identified Gog and Magog with the Khazars,[34][35] as did a Georgian tradition, which called them "wild men with hideous faces and the manners of wild beasts, eaters of blood".[36] According to the famous Khazar Correspondence (c. 960), King Joseph of Khazaria claimed to be a descendant of Magog's nephew Togarmah.[37]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog

.............................................

Gog & Magog


Neatly tying together recent events and commemorations, here is the statue of Magog in the Guildhall. Gog & Magog were two giants that were defeated by Brutus, the first king of Britain, and chained where the Guildhall stands. They make the rounds with the Lord Mayor's parade each year, and have done for hundreds of years. These carvings are modern replacements, as the more ancient versions went up in flames in the Blitz.

Read about Gog & Magog's story here.
http://londondailyphoto.blogspot.com/2008/11/gog-magog.html
.............................................


http://www.templeinstitute.org/megillat-bush.htm <
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by zone on Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:16 am

Abiding wrote:I just started a biblestudy on romans and will be racing to get more study done before
we get to chapters 10-11. Teaching is a very serious thing to me...even
tho i can teach 2 or 3 possibilities in a class and leave it to them(disclaimer) I am suffering unrest and have now for about 6 months.



Romans 11 is clear:

GOD HAS NOT CAST AWAY HIS PEOPLE WHOM HE FOREKNEW (they are called, chosen, justified and glorified...just like the elect gentiles): GOD FORBID PAUL SAYS....look at me! i'm a Hebrew of hebrews, of the tribe of benjamin, etc etc. I'M PROOF He has kept, like always A REMNANT CHOSEN ACCORDING TO GRACE.

Paul uses the example of Elijah...thats the part dispos read right over....

Elijah: Lord, i'm the only faithful israelite left: God says NO YOU'RE NOT...I HAVE RESERVED TO MYSELF EVEN NOW 7,000 MEN WHO HAVE NOT BENT THE KNEE TO BA'AL......ELECTION...REMNANT...God reserving for Himself.

Paul says....AND SO IN THIS WAY (what way Paul???) ALL Israel (elect) will be saved.


what way? BY GOD'S KEEPING OR RESERVING A REMNANT AS ALWAYS....

NOT by blinding the entire nation for 2000 years because some rejected Jesus, then injecting a Plan B Scofield Chruch and Postponing the Kingdom.

that's blasphemy. that's another gospel. cursed.

HERE'S PROOF RIGHT IN ROMANS 11 THAT PAUL MEANT THE REMNANT JEWS HAVE BEEN COMING TO CHRIST SINCE PENTECOST: (again, i've posted this a thousand times but nobody believes it...they're in dispo land....'the jews have their covenant. don't evangleize them': RUBBISH!)

Romans 11:31
so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.



see the word NOW?

paul meant NOW. when he was alive. if he meant 2000 years in the future he wouldn't have wished he himself were cut off for his kinsmens' sake. he would have said...no biggie...they're covered in the resurrection cuz the Kingdom is Postponed. they'll come back in temporay flesh bodies and be taught by floating christian spirits on earth with a Glorfi......HUH? NO>

Romans 11:31
so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.

if they do not continue in unbelief God can graft them back in.

NOW. TODAY.

the fulness of the gentiles coming happened when Paul was launched in ministry.

it just means fullness of the church as it was revealed to be both jew and gentile. its not some magic number of gentiles in the eschaton suddenly God says STOP...time to bring in jews now. thats ridiculous.

love zone.


Last edited by zone on Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:31 am; edited 4 times in total
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by zone on Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:19 am

ada wrote:Sorry but what was your question ? Embarassed


ada.

this is not helpful

jews and gentiles who think they are jews need Jesus....just like everyone else.

if God has hardened some and they are reprobate no amount of Gospel will change that. easy up on the broad brush ada. its better if we can be specific.

i have an old recording of a christian woman from the 60's teaching the khazars who they were...its amazing. i'll try to find it. they were stunned and converted to christ.
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by zone on Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:37 am

Abiding wrote:Is Israel made up of ethnic jews or
not. Israel is the only thing i must figure out...

what's an ethnic jew?

being a jew is a religion, not a race.

there are jews from every race in the world...just like christians.

if you mean is israel made up of Biblical Hebrews, there might be a few who have a teeny bit of ancient Hebrew blood in them. BIG DEAL! the flesh means ZERO!

Galatians 3:8
The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."

i mean just look at that passage - Paul says God gave the Gospel to ABRAHAM!

there's no excuse!
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by Abiding on Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:30 am

Thankyou Kathrine
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by ada on Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:54 am

zone wrote:

what's an ethnic jew?

being a jew is a religion, not a race.

there are jews from every race in the world...just like christians.

if you mean is israel made up of Biblical Hebrews, there might be a few who have a teeny bit of ancient Hebrew blood in them. BIG DEAL! the flesh means ZERO!

Galatians 3:8
The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."

i mean just look at that passage - Paul says God gave the Gospel to ABRAHAM!

there's no excuse!

The true lineage is abraham>moses>christ>the church.
Sure it is possible that jews maybe saved,like Chinese, Japaneses, Indians, Arabs or you name it.
I never said something else and there is no need that someone else make things up.
And we all know that judeo christians love fleshly israel and the world more than Jesus Christ.
They all get "liberated",liberalized, stigmatized and hypnotized through jewish mystification of the doctrine.
Brotherly division is the main problem in Christianity!
Why? Cause the churchrleaders work hand ind hand with the adversary.
The more we let this happen the more they gain more and more earthly power.
It goes even thus far that they try to replace the suffering of Christ for the salvation of all man with
the suffering of the jews for the enslavement of the world.
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by ada on Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:27 am



"We have a talent for confusing your issues.... We Jews have put issue upon
issue to the American people. Then we promote both sides of the issue
as confusion reigns. With their eye's fixed on the issues, they fail to
see who is behind every scene. We Jews toy with the American public as
a cat toys with a mouse."


"I said it before and I'll say it now -- that we will have complete, I say complete control, throughout the entire world possibly before I die. We are very successful in keeping you gentiles confused.
We create confusion. (The word Babylon in Hebrew is Babel and means
confusion. The Jews are masters at confusion because they are the
ringleaders of the system known as "Mystery Babylon."
) You're not
stupid White. You know that the Jews are successful because of our unity. We die for one another if necessary.
We generously finance our own, so it is understandable how we govern
not only in this country. We direct American foreign affairs. We are the super government of the world."


"You have not begun to appreciate the real depth of our guilt. We are intruders. We are disturbers. We are subverters. We have taken your natural world, your ideals, your destiny, and played havoc with them. We have been at the bottom of not merely the latest Great War but of nearly all your wars, not only of the Russian but of nearly every other major revolution in your history. We have brought discord and confusion and frustration into your personal and public life. We are still doing it. No one can tell how long we shall go on doing it."
Extract from the 1976 interview with the Jew Harold Wallace Rosenthal
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Robert Fisk: The 'invented people' stand little chance

Post by zone on Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:10 pm

Robert Fisk: The 'invented people' stand little chance



In the United States, where Netanyahu received so many standing ovations from a Congress that apparently thought it was the Knesset – far more ovations than he would ever have received in the real Knesset in Jerusalem – Israel is increasingly relying on the support of Christian fundamentalists.

This support has now coalesced with the Republican Party against Obama – whose grovelling to Netanyahu has won him no new friends – so that over recent years, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is routinely used to attack the Democrats. Having once been sustained by the progressive left, Israel now draws its principal support from right-wing conservatism of a particularly unpleasant kind. Christian evangelicals believe that all Jews will die if they do not convert to Christianity on the coming of the Messiah. And right-wing racists in Europe – the most prominent of them being Dutch – are welcome in Israel, while the likes of Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein are not.

Not a word about this from the would-be Republican candidates and their followers these past few days. Governor Rick Perry has long accused Obama of "appeasement" in the Middle East, and former New York mayor Ed Koch has never withdrawn his claim that Obama "threw Israel under the bus". Mitt Romney has said that he wants "to increase military and intelligence co-ordination with Israel" – as if the US hasn't been handing out aircraft and billions of dollars to Israel for decades. What chance do an "invented people" have against this

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-the-invented-people-stand-little-chance-6289516.html
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by zone on Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:24 pm

The Threat of Christian Zionism


by Nathan Pitchford
What is Christian Zionism?

Simply speaking, Christian Zionism is support for the Jewish movement to regain possession of their ancient homeland, which derives from a Christian theology and understanding of the Bible.


In the most basic of terms, this Christian theological support comes from a literalistic reading of such passages as Genesis 13:14-15, where God promises to Abraham, “All the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your seed forever”. When this motif is conflated with such passages as Genesis 12:3 [spoken to Abraham], “And I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse the one who curses you...”; and Joel 3:2, “And I will gather all the nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat, and I will judge them there because of my people, even my heritage, Israel, because they scattered them among the nations and because they divided my land”; the obvious implication is that, anyone who fails to support modern Israel in all her struggles with her various enemies, or anyone who approves of a treaty by which the boundaries first promised to Abraham are divided between Israel and her neighbors, will be under God's curse, and the object of his eschatological judgment.


The glaring problem with this simplistic reasoning, of course, is that it fails to take into account the biblical qualification as to who is intended by Abraham's “Seed,” and what is indicated by the land which he was promised (for the former, see Galatians 3:16; 3:28-29; Romans 4:11-17; for the latter, see Galatians 4:26; Hebrews 11:9-10; 12:22-24)....

....if God is fulfilling his promise made to Abraham by calling out persons from every nation to be his children by faith, and preparing them to inherit, not just the promised land, but the whole earth, and the New Jerusalem of which they are citizens even now (Matthew 5:5; Galatians 4:25-26; Revelation 21:1-4), then one can best throw in his lot with God's people by laboring to bring children of every nationality in to his kingdom, which has now exploded beyond the bounds of the Middle East, and soon promises to change the entire world, when the redemption of God reaches its consummation and the Davidic King returns in all his glory.


Although ethnic Israel still retains a special place in God's redemptive design, being the nation to whom he first gave his grace and promise and covenant, and though we might with firm biblical conviction labor to see the ethnic Jewish people enjoy the blessings that God has irrevocably covenanted to give them, and continues to give to a remnant of grace within their ranks (Romans 11); yet, it would be a tragic step backwards to labor to reserve for them all the old shadow-blessings of a typical strip of this still-cursed earth, when the remnant of grace has entered into the true inheritance of Christ, and awaits an entire new and glorious earth, that “city which has foundations” (Hebrews 11:10, 14-16), which all of Abraham's true seed by faith will inherit.


The practical outworkings of this two-people theology have an immense psychological effect among those committed to laboring for God's redemptive ends. According to Dispensational theology, God's last prophetic purposes will revert back to the political and geographical designs he has for his earthly people, national Israel.

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/zionism.html
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Gilad: How Scofield sowed the seeds of apostasy

Post by zone on Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:44 pm

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/the-roots-of-christian-zionism-how-scofield-sowed-seeds-of-a.html
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John Hagee Alleges a Copyright Claim on His Prayer for War

Post by zone on Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:42 pm

John Hagee Alleges a Copyright Claim on His Prayer for War

Charles E. Carlson Mar 17, 2012

Who would believe that in early 2003, just before the second USA annihilation of Iraq, Reverend John Hagee held hands with Rev. Benny Hinn, praying for war, In the name of Jesus. That is the title of our much watched video on YouTube, produced by Tom Compton at We Hold These Truths. Now, if you go to YouTube to watch it, you’ll be disappointed. You will see this message:
"This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by John Hagee Ministries.”*

Here is part of the prayer: Hagee: "Father... I pray for our President...that you would give him the wisdom of Solomon to lead this nation into war against the enemies of righteousness...I pray God that the enemy shall be destroyed and that the angels of heaven go before the US and British forces bringing deliverance to that part of the world and, most assuredly, deliverance to Israel....in Jesus name, amen."

John Hagee Ministries appears to have made a false statement to YouTube, that it has a copyright on the WHTT four minute film, which contains 54 seconds of Hagee's prayer for war. It has now been seen by many. Hagee's lawyers have challenged our right to show part of his prayer when, in fact, if anyone was to complain it would be Benny Hinn, who copyrighted the entire 28 min. 32 second, disgusting, fund raising show containing Hagee's prayer. Hagee in later sermons has often preached for war upon Iran to assist Israel, but he seems to have stopped praying for war “In Jesus Name.”

It is easy to be diverted into an appealing fight when someone takes a swing at your nose. Hagee has paid his lawyers to prevent viewers from seeing our short video. This might make a fun legal battle if some public spirited copyright lawyer wants to take up that case in our behalf, have at it! But we have another purpose to stick to.

We want your help in keeping alive our struggle for the survival of more millions of human war targets. Our objective is to prevent the next war, wherever it is to be, maybe Iran, maybe elsewhere.

John Hagee is a fanatical Christian Zionist buffoon, who is rapidly being discredited. He is not the primary object of our work, even though we have devoted considerable time and money exposing him and his passionate connection to Israel. He is a warmaker with a “Christian” label.

We have held vigils at six or seven of Hagee’s events in order to reach his misguided followers. And we want them and other YouTube viewers to see Hagee praying his anti-Christian war prayer. WHTT will re-publishing Tom Compton's four minute video on YouTube, this time including the written transcription of Hagee’s prayer for war, in place of the anti-Christ film showing him reciting it. It will show our vigil for peace at the mega-church owned by Pastor George Morrison, who hosted a "Night to Honor Israel" where Hagee was present.


Because Morrison is widely respected, he is much more dangerous to world peace than Hagee. He also runs a K-12 school that preaches Zionism to its students. We need to expose the thousands of pastors who, often without knowing they are doing it, represent the violent war lobby in our country. Most of them are much too smart to recite a prayer for war out loud and in public bacause many of their listeners know Jesus is a Peacemaker.


We work to change your friends and your pastor, not a few fanatics who claim America was founded to stamp out Islam, and who fleece followers of their money to free non-existent slaves in Sudan, as does Pastor Rod Parsley, of Columbus, Ohio. These self-serving Celebrity Zionists will not destroy us with war because too many people have the sense to reject them.

But more clever (or more benignly ignorant) Christian Zionists will help destroy more millions in serial wars, because they know how to appear moderate and reasonable. Thousands of these smooth, sincere sounding pastors are spreading the virus. The latest two to experience our vigils were Lon Solomon at McLean Bible Church Vienna, VA. and Mauri Davis at Cornerstone Church in Nashville, TN. Both of these preach serial wars, "because we must support Israel."

Some well-known traditional Christian evangelical authors have recently begun to refer to Christian Zionists as misguided and see the danger in their numbers, but not fast enough. In fact, there are probably 40-70 million Americans in various stages of self-deception; the number is staggering, and so are the votes they cast. It is they, not Hagee, who will drag us into one war after another, because they believe the story they are told. We must find a way to get past the pastors to their followers, who are being deceived. The leaders will change when they have few followers left.

WHTT held our first vigil in 2003, before the bombing of Iraq, and we were considered so unique in our protest we were covered by major news media as a “peace movement.” Your writer was dubbed “Peace Monger” by one publication, but this coverage disappeared when the media found out We Hold These Truths ties the State of Israel to Christian Zionism, and to our serial wars.The truth is costly.

Fortunately, we are no longer the only ones trying to change church leaders who stray from being peacemakers. Pastors, led by Stephen Sizer, Alex Awad, and others also did their their best at the Christ at the Checkpoint Conference in Bethlehem, Palestine, prodding traditional Christian leaders to action. That conference of some 600, was within range of Israel's tank guns. But it was forced to withdraw its offer to this author to show our video, “The Tragedy and the Turning,”* under pressure from the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and its European surrogates. Israel fears the exposure of Christian Zionism and has shown they will spare no cost to protect it.

Our next paper will again give a new detailed account of how the Anti- Defamation League (ADL) and its surrogates worldwide pressured the Bethlehem Conference defame WHTT (as Hagee is doing) and how it protects Christian Zionism from exposure.

We beg you to form your own little Vigil team to cope with the warmaking churches in your city. Read our reports about past vigils done by as few as two! You do not have to be nearly as brave as you think, and we will teach you everything you need to know.


http://whtt.org/newwhtt/main.php?nid=10180&ncateid=1
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Hagee compares Netanyahu to Moses & David

Post by zone on Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Waiting for the Messiah: Netanyahu addresses Evangelical Christian gathering in Jerusalem


Head of Christians United for Israel, largest pro-Israel lobby in U.S., compares PM to Moses and King David.


By Nir Hasson

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/waiting-for-the-messiah-netanyahu-addresses-evangelical-christian-gathering-in-jerusalem-1.419432

...
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by Strangelove on Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:32 pm



Hagee tells atheists to get out of america. Apparently preaching the gospel to the unsaved isn't gonna work anymore?

Suspect

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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by zone on Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:47 pm





wingnut
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by unclefester on Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:52 pm

Strangelove wrote:

Hagee tells atheists to get out of america. Apparently preaching the gospel to the unsaved isn't gonna work anymore?

Suspect

I remember the first time I watched this guy preach a sermon (T.V.). All I saw was anger and dysfunctionalism (not a word but who cares ?). I mean, ... how can people NOT see these things in this guy ? Frankly, just looking without even hearing and this guy gives me the creeps. Just his aura Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by zone on Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:39 am

agreed Fester. as phony as a 3 dollar bill.
but he's sure been a busy little lap dog. and effective as a pit bull.

......

Texas megachurch pastor John Hagee, founder of Christians United For Israel, a new and nominally "pro-Israel" American national political lobbying group, has built a career on aggressive support for hard right to fringe right Israeli politics and is now making inroads towards convincing the mainstream American Jewish community that he and CUFI are the best tactical allies Jews and Israel can expect to find.

I've recently written series, here on Talk To Action, about the underlying structural anti-Semitism (see installments 4, 3, 2, 1) inherent among American Christian Zionists who support a "strong" Israel, oppose all Israel peace negotiations with Palestinians that would make land concessions, rhetorically demonize and antagonize the Muslim world, label Islam as a "wicked" religion and slander Mohammed, and hope that an American or Israeli attack on Iran will touch off a widepsread conflict leading both to the Rapture and to the death of most Israeli Jews or even most Jews worldwide.

Talk To Action contributor Max Blumenthal has touched on another ugly aspect of American Christian Zionism, its willingness to make gangland-style veiled threats against Israel ( see Blumenthal's Did Tim LaHaye Just Call Israelis "Not-To-Be-Trusted Yids?" and as occasional TTA contributor Esther Kaplan sums things up:


Never mind that Christian right leaders such as Jerry Falwell have called Jews "spiritually blind and desperately in need of their Messiah and Savior"; that the Southern Baptist Convention has made the conversion of Jews a special mission; and that much Christian right support for Israel is based on End Times scenarios in which Jews must return to Israel to expedite the second coming of Christ. There's just one catch: Once that glorious event occurs, Jews who don't convert will burn in hell for all eternity. As Craig Unger vividly illustrates in his article in the December issue of Vanity Fair, in which he recounts his travels to the Holy Land with best-selling apocalyptic novelist Tim LaHaye, if you peel back Christian right support for Israel, you find a Jewish death wish.

American Christian Zionism can be placed somewhere along the lineage in which British Israelism, an early 20th Century British religious movement which claimed that modern Europeans were descended from the "Lost Tribes" of Israel but, according to the Anti Defamation League, was no more or less anti-Semitic than mainstream European culture of the time , came to America and progressively morphed into the hard anti-Semitic beliefs of the Christian Identity movement.

But John Hagee's Christian Zionism seems to have veered sharply away from the virulent anti-Semitism tendencies that led to Christian Identity ; Hagee's ministry celebrates Judaica, performs a yearly "Feast Of The Tabernacles" ceremony and Hagee's church has hosted an annual "Night To Honor Israel" event for over two decades now. Further, Hagee's church is racially integrated.

So what's not to like ?

Let's rearrange the perspective a bit :

At Cornerstone Church, pastor John Hagee can be found many Sundays ( when Hagee's son Matthew is not preaching in his father's stead ) seated upon a white and blue throne ( the colors of the Israeli flag ) wearing a Jewish prayer shawl ( his church sells prayer shawls too ) and preaching to his flock whose members are organized into the "Twelve tribes of Israel" ; in that setting, Hagee can be found preaching on the need for a preemptive nuclear war against Iran, because of an alleged, dire threat that Iran will mount a nuclear attack against the US and/or Israel. In the very same sermon, one might also hear John Hagee talk of how such a war will lead to catastrophic world conflict that will kill most Jews in Israel and also possibly lead to the nuclear destruction of the East and West coasts of the United States which, oddly enough, contain by far the largest concentration of Jews outside of the Israel.

One might hear Pastor Hagee's deep, charismatic voice intoning about how "thrilling" the expected catastrophic bloody conflict will be because it will lead to the "Rapture" in which Christians will ascend bodily into heaven to live forever there, in paradise. But after the Rapture Jews, having filled their indispensible role as props, or ritualistic ingredients, that make the Rapture possible, will mostly be killed but for a "remnant" who convert to Christianity.

For those who do not accept Hagee's theological and end-times beliefs, the Rapture may seem unlikely, but the bloody, catastrophic conflict Hagee hopes will soon happen seems far more probable especially with Hagee's Christian Zionist lobby working to encourage violence ; the possibility of such a conflict as Hagee envisions raises the grotesque tableaux of John Hagee's "twelve tribes" at Cornerstone Church watching, from a safe distance, a Mideast conflagration they have helped to engineer and which leads to a massive death toll both among Muslims, who many Christian zionists demonize and profess to hate, and also among Jews, who Christian zionists idealize, mythologize, fetishize, and profess to love.


Rub the lucky prayer shawl ?

"The Mystery of the Prayer Shawl
The tallit or prayer shawl, designed by God, has been worn by devout Jews for centuries. Its legacy is woven throughout the Old and New Testaments. It still carries the power to energize your prayer life. Pastor Hagee gives you the keys from the Word of God to unleash this power in your own life. Included with this teaching is an authentic
prayer shawl imported directly from Israel.
SO-23 PRAYER SHAWL & TAPE
Shawl & audio tape $35 US/$46 CAN
Shawl & video tape $45 US/$59 CAN" - From Cornerstone Church/John Hagee Ministries semi-monthly church magazine.

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2007/3/9/131842/6049

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Israeli, Messianic Christian Zionists Attack Palestinian Christians

Post by zone on Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:00 pm

Israeli, Messianic Christian Zionists Attack Palestinian Christians
May 22nd, 2012 by whtt


With only about 50,000 Palestinian Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, some Israeli, Messianic Jewish Christians want us to believe that Palestinian Christians are somehow a threat to the state of Israel. What they are really worried about is that millions of Christian Zionists in the U.S. might wake up to the injustices committed against all Palestinians, both Muslims and Christians, and choose compassion toward Palestinians rather than adhere to a blind faith toward the state of Israel. This is a fascinating report that covers the attack on the Christ At The Checkpoint conference held in Bethlehem, West Bank, Palestine in March, 2012. Originally, WHTT was invited to show our video, Christian Zionism: The Tragedy & The Turning, Part I at the conference but was dis-invited (due to Zionist pressure) and replaced with Israeli Messianic Jewish Christians addressing the conference who came back to bad mouth it.

http://www.whtt.podbean.com/

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Re: Christian Zionism

Post by zone on Wed May 07, 2014 6:18 pm

Christian Zionism

This page will be a one-stop center for all posts concerning Christian Zionism. Posts which primarily deal with dispensationalism will also be found here:

http://kloposmasm.com/christian-zionism/

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Re: Christian Zionism

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