Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

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Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by Strangelove on Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:22 pm

This ones also for Randy...and Randy Jnr.

Mark Driscoll in a heated rant about guys in his church.

Notice at about 3:15 minutes the main point of speech...

"Shame on you for not coming under spiritual authority"

"Shame on you for not joining a community group"




Last edited by Strangelove on Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by Strangelove on Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:55 pm

A good sermon from a favourite preacher of mine...


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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by vietrandy on Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:49 pm

THANK YOU MY BROTHER

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Mark Driscoll IS DANGEROUS

Post by vietrandy on Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:50 pm

Pastor Mark Driscoll is a false teacher... beware saints
Pastor Mark Driscoll, the misguided thug who frequently says certain wolves in sheep's clothing in his church (usually people who stand up to him and question his misuse of authority) need to be shot should in fact himself be taken out in the field in his Washington State church MARS HILL and shot.

http://narrowisthepath.wordpress.com/2010/03/20/fighting-for-the-faith-special-edition-the-cult-like-hostile-takeover-tactics-of-the-purpose-driven-church-transitioning-seminar/

Among the numerous cult like control tactics he uses on intimidating his flock there's one that reveals his true nature. In his book, video (church commercialism) THE PEASANT PRINCESS... http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/the-peasant-princess. In the Peasant Princess, Driscoll gives us his view of the 'true' meaning of the song of songs. He takes a 100 % view that the book is totally literal and has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with any sense of allegory. He even goes so far to say that "IF" this book was even remotely allegorical in nature as in telling us of Jesus, he wouldn't want to see Jesus in this sense.

This is severe in my opinion because 1. literal completely removes JESUS CHRIST from the scripture which is based on the compassion of the true love story for JESUS. 2. It teaches and shows the Bible in this book as only a carnal love story and how we are to date our wife and the preludes to sex. Pretty passionate Driscoll gets while he is describing how a chilled bottle of red wine gets him fired up to work on his wife from passages in Song of Songs...

But in an even deeper sense, Driscoll is undermining the process of Grace vs Works. The law of Moses vs the Faith in Christ Jesus. If righteousness comes by the law (or literal meaning of written text vs the TRUE SPIRIT POWER OF THE written scriptures as revealed by ALLEGORY) which Paul clearly explains in Galatians 2:21; 4:21-29 To counter the Judaizers and even Peter who was bewitched as well as the polluted minds of the Christians at Galatia. Throughout the Bible, literal text = the letter = the law... On the other hand, The Spiritual aspects = Grace = JESUS. The letter kills the Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6; The words I speak to you are Spirit and they are Life. John 6:63.

How can Song of Songs (Song of Solomon) in the old Testament be compared to Galatians and with GRACE vs WORKS? SIMPLY by the same way the Judaizers and Driscoll both work by removing JESUS from key elements in our Christian walk.

Paul carefully explains how the story of Abraham's two sons, the one by a bond maid, the other by a free woman. (Genesis 16), is an allegory in it's deepest meaning. If we read the story in Genesis about how Abraham had two sons by two different wives we loose the deeper meaning that Paul gives us in the allegory which is JESUS CHRIST VS THE LAW OF MOSES. This becomes the basis for the core meaning of the GOSPEL = GOOD NEWS = JESUS CHRIST IS OUR SALVATION AND BY HIS BLOOD ON THE CROSS WE ARE FREE BY FAITH IN BELIEVING ON JESUS AND NOT BY OUR WORKS OR PRACTICE OF LITERAL LAW TO EARN OUR SALVATION.

Paul takes the old testament story as an allegory depicting the New Testament doctrine of justification by faith.

In John Bunyan's 'THE PILGRIM'S PROGRESS" the complete story is allegory for a specific purpose: To show that all of life has a purpose for the unseen, the end which is giving our lives to Christ. here are quotes from the book's introduction for the purpose of explanation: Allegory has often been described as a suitable mode to represent the alienated, objectified character of worldly experience.... Allegory's purpose is to teach us that the experimental world - the carnal or "fleshly" dimension, is fallen into disharmonious relation with it's creator: Allegory itself was sown by Christianity. Considered in allegorical terms, then the profane world is both elevated and devalued .the Christian perspective, taking appearances for reality is not only erroneous, but also sinful."

In the Introduction to PILGRIMS PROGRESS, David Hawkes explains: (pagexxiii.xxiv) "To insist on a literalistic reading of the story (Genesis 16) would be, in Paul's view to remain ignorant of the difference between the law and the gospel. Paul's epistle thus establishes the connection between literalism and legalism that dominates Bunyan's aesthetic practice. The Pilgrim's Progress insists that we must view the world of the flesh as an extended allegory, and this constant referral of material signs to spiritual meanings is the journey that its hero undertakes. .. Like Paul and Bunyan, Luther spent many years in the vain attempt to achieve righteousness through obedience to the law in its civil, moral, and ceremonial guises. The Reformation began with his realization that this was impossible, and that justification before God could be attained only through faith in Christ... (THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST.) But we imagine as it were two worlds, the one heavenly and the other earthly. In these we place these two kinds of righteousness, being separate the one far from the other. Luther's dichotomy involves the division of every aspect of experience along these lines, and the Commentary constructs a lengthy series of binary oppositions on this basis: these oppositions are so prominent throughout the *Pilgrims Progress that a visual aid may be useful as a mnemonic: JUSTICE/MERCY; LAW/GRACE; WORKS/FAITH; FLESH/SPIRIT; TYPE/ANTITYPE; LITERAL/ALLEGORICAL; OLD MAN/NEW MAN; MOSES/CHRIST; FIRST ADAM/SECOND ADAM; OLD TESTAMENT/NEW TESTAMENT; BODY/SOUL; ACTIVE RIGHTEOUSNESS/PASSIVE RIGHTEOUSNESS; EARTH/HEAVEN; ALIENATION/RECONCILIATION; DEATH/LIFE; DAMNATION/SALVATION; IMPRISONMENT; LIBERTY. end quote.

In detail Driscoll dismantles JESUS CHRIST and replaces Christ with the Peasant Princess. The comparison is seen above in the Mnemonic used in Pilgrim's Progress. The one that hurt my heart the most is in Chapter 2 of Song of Songs: "I am the rose of Sharon and the lily of the valleys" This belongs to my Lord Jesus and not to a Peasant Girl.

As Matthew Henry writes in his commentary of Song of Songs: "S of S is an allegory 3; (a device used to convey a meaning ... a representation other than literal - speaking here only by the Spirit) to read by the letter which kills those who rest in the that to look no further but the spirit of which gives lives. 2 Cor. 3:6; Jn 6:63 a parable which makes divine things more difficult to those who do not love them but more plain and to pleasant to those who do. Matthew 13;14.. Experienced Christians find here a counter part of their experiences and to them it is intelligible - while those who have no part nor lot in the matter neither understand it or relish it... When we apply ourselves to the study of this book we must not only with Moses and Joshua put off our shoe from off our feet and even forget we have bodies because he he place we stand on is holy ground but we must with John come up hither must spread our wings, take a noble flight, and soar upwards till by faith and holy love we enter into the holiest, for this is no other than the house of God and this is the gate of heaven. " end quote.

I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys."—Song of Solomon 2:1.

Quote taken from Charles Spurgeon regarding Song of Solomon 2:1: "THE time of flowers has come, and as they are in some faint degree emblems of our Lord, it is well, when God thus calls, that we should seek to learn what he desires to teach us by them. If nature now spreads out her roses and her lilies, or prepares to do so, let us try, not only to see them, but to see Christ as he is shadowed forth in them.
"I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys." If these are the words of the Well-beloved,—and I have no doubt that they are,—then it may be suggested by some that here we have the Savior praising himself; and it is true; but in no unworthy sense, for well may he praise himself since no one else can do it as it should be done. There is no human language that can ever set forth his beauties as they deserve to be told. As good John Berridge says,—

"Living tongues are dumb at best,
We must die to speak of Christ" End Quote.

Lord Jesus I pray for Pastor Mark Driscoll that he humble himself before you and open up his heart to preach Christ instead of the Flesh in his message. Amen.

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THANK YOU BROTHER

Post by vietrandy on Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:51 pm

THANK YOU BROTHER.. THE SAINTS NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THIS WOLF

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by vietrandy on Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:09 pm

certainly a pastor needs to lay it on the line to wife beaters. AND THEN there's the HOW DARE YOU NOT COME UNDER SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY AND COME UNDER A GROUP..
HOW DO YOU SPELL CULT = C U L T
C U L T C U L T C U L T C U L T
Mark Driscoll you need to confess your control tactics and repent.

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by vietrandy on Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:41 pm

great sermon by pastor johnson. wow, i have to confess and repent myself for my language i often use. thank you my brother.

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by Strangelove on Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:06 pm

Ya he's an exceelent speaker.

Big sermon list here:

http://www.swordandtrowel.org/Sermons.aspx?author=Phil

.............

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Mark Driscoll - by Chris Rosebrough

Post by zone on Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:15 pm

http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/mark-driscoll/

lots of episodes covering driscoll and his antics.
chris' podcast is my favourite TV alternative. its audio, but i can't stand tv, and its a good 2 hour listen through household chores or driving etc.
tons of sermon reviews (both good ans bad) and updates on movements effecting the church.
and a great way to go through scripture.
i recommend his show 100%..........really funny guy too.
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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by Strangelove on Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:17 pm

Does he actually have any really out there doctrines or is it just his control freak and aggressive attitude that irks people?

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by vietrandy on Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:13 am

carefully veils false doctrine with sprinkles of the truth.. he sows in the tares, he sprinkles in the leaven. refer to my note on just one example of the Song of Solomon. And of course, he is a major control freak.

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by zone on Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:08 am

Strangelove wrote:Does he actually have any really out there doctrines or is it just his control freak and aggressive attitude that irks people?

well, he went orginally from being a cessationist, to then claiming to be a charismatic.

lately he's been claiming direct revelation etc (the rapes, detailed sinful acts of strangers, direct convos with God).

total weirdo. narcisist.
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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by Strangelove on Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:34 pm

zone wrote:well, he went orginally from being a cessationist, to then claiming to be a charismatic.

lately he's been claiming direct revelation etc (the rapes, detailed sinful acts of strangers, direct convos with God).

total weirdo. narcisist.

We got any documentation on the direct revelation thingee?

Also is this guy five fold ministry?

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by vietrandy on Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:44 pm

I've alerted Cultwatch about Driscoll. They had some alarms go off before hearing from me, but I was able to give them a lot of insight which was unfortunately gained through my son who got sucked into his warped world of control. Yes Driscoll disdains labels but gladly jumps on the 5 fold ministry bandwagon and fits the mold precisely. He wants to do it all although he says he doesn't. At this time I don't have anything in hand regarding the direct revelation. I will look deeper into it.

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by vietrandy on Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:46 pm

the thing that really alarmed cultwatch was how Driscoll demands his flock coming under spiritual authority and the "mandatory" accountability groups. If you'll recall Doc, my son became very hostile and demanded I leave Vietnam and preferrably live in the Seattle area and come under authority and start attending a CONTROL GROUP. MY son, Randy Jr., would also say that sometimes it's difficult being scrutinized in the groups, but this is what the christian walk is all about.

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Sola Sisters on Driscoll: personal words from God

Post by zone on Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:02 pm


Now I have a new reason to be even more uncomfortable with Mark Driscoll: he's promoting contemplative prayer and how to hear personal words from God.

From a recent post by Winfield Bevins at Driscoll's website Resurgence:

Steps for Meditative Prayer



  1. Designate a quiet place. In a world full of distractions, we need a quiet place where we can allow God to speak to us. The most effective place to pray is where you are least likely to be disturbed.
  2. Give yourself 20-30 minutes. Many people only spend a few minutes each day in prayer. Very few people actually spend time in meditative prayer. It takes time to drown out the cares of the world, sit, prayerfully meditate on God's word, and then allow him to speak to us.
  3. Choose Scripture to prayerfully meditate on. Prayerfully select a passage of Scripture that means something to you. Let it either focus on the goodness of God, the promises of God, or the worship of God.
  4. Allow God to speak to you. This is the hardest part. Many people never hear the Lord speak to them simply because they don't allow him to. We need to sit and listen for the voice of the Lord. Samuel was open to hearing from the Lord (1 Samuel 3). He said, "Speak, for your servant hears."
Just for the record, I'm going to go over what I think is a very remedial point one more time, though I've gone over this in a few posts already.
Mysticism ("personal words from God") = the Opposite of Sola Scriptura
Let me explain. Reformed Christians believe in the Solas of the Reformation. It was the Solas that rescued the church out of the mire of the man-made traditions of Roman Catholic Monasticism which had a vice-like grip, up until that point, on Christendom. Sola Scriptura is one of the Five Solas, and it simply means that we understand the Bible to clearly teach that the way we "hear" from God is through the Bible. The Bible addresses this very specifically in the book of Hebrews, explaining that before the finished canon, God spoke to his people through prophets of his designation, but that once Jesus came, he was our final and greatest Prophet, and now speaks to us through his Word:
"In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe." (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Contemplative prayer, on the other hand, is a form of mysticism that has nothing to do with Biblical meditation and study of the Word. Rather, it is derived from Roman Catholic Monastic practices (which in turn borrowed liberally from the pagan religious practices of the east). Contemplative prayer involves corralling, or emptying, the mind for the purpose of "hearing from God." Contemplative prayer is a technique which puts the practitioner into an altered state of consciousness. But nowhere in Scripture is this practice described or commanded. Mysticism is what pagans conjure up in lieu of truth. Thankfully, Christians already have the Truth and can know it through God's merciful provision of the Word. We must not yield in this area.

John Wesley had a famous saying that I love: "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity." I agree wholeheartedly with this statement, but not in the way it is often used today. Today's Christians will often quote this whenever there is any kind of disagreement, without first ascertaining whether or not the issue of concern is a matter of essential doctrine. This saying, rightly understood, means that we must first be able to distinguish between the essentials and the non-essentials. Fellow Christians have tried to convince me that this type of contemplative prayer is simply a matter of personal conviction, or in other words, a non-essential, an area of liberty. It is not.

Another saying - the one that became the motto of the Reformation period - might help steady our thinking in this regard:
"Post tenebras lux" ("After the darkness, light.")
Meaning, after the darkness of the middle ages, which were characterized by a syncretized blend of man-made traditions and paganism, came the piercing light of truth, brought forth by the reformers, and literally paid for with their own blood. The people of Martin Luther's day, because they could not read God's Word for themselves, were in terrible spiritual bondage to the whims of the Roman Catholic church. Do we esteem God's Word so little that we would allow it to be paganized again? Truth must be protected. We must reject the false teaching of pastors who claim to be Calvinists but who embrace the contemplative practices of the Roman Catholic Monastic period.

I still love Todd Friel's radio show Wretched, and still get great teaching from it. Those guys do a great job over there, and they must not be faulted simply for giving a forum to someone whose teaching went south on us. This happens with some regularity, but is always shocking nonetheless. J.I. Packer, for instance, wrote the astonishing Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God......but then signed Evangelicals and Catholics Together (ECT) in 1994. Billy Graham has had an amazing life filled with powerful gospel preaching, but in recent years has made heartbreaking statements challenging the exclusivity of Christ.

The curious case of Mark Driscoll should simply be a reminder to all of us that we must evaluate all teaching against the truth of Scripture. As my pastor sometimes jokes, you're never really sure about where anyone stands until after they've died. Meaning, if they hold the line till the very end, then they're most likely solid (but after all, only God truly knows the heart).


http://solasisters.blogspot.com/2010/05/mark-driscoll-face-of-contemplative.html
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Mark Driscoll IS a Contemplative Proponent

Post by zone on Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:08 pm

Mark Driscoll IS a Contemplative Proponent

December 21st, 2009 | Author: Lighthouse Trails Editors


Mark Driscoll is a name that has grown in popularity among evangelicals especially over the past few years. Somewhat known for his vulgar and crass language in public, he has been invited to speak at conferences by a wide assortment of Christian leaders–John Piper and Robert Schuller to name two. Driscoll also shared a platform this year at the Gospel Coalition National Conference with a number of respected Christian evangelical figures such as D.A. Carson, Erwin Lutzer, and Joshua Harris. Coming up in 2010, Driscoll has been invited by Rick Warren to speak at the Radicalis conference.

Although Driscoll, pastor of Mars Hill Fellowship in Seattle Washington, is said to have denounced certain aspects of the emergent church, Driscoll is a proponent of the main element behind the emerging church – contemplative prayer.

Presently, on Driscoll’s website, The Resurgence (see whois info) is an article titled “How to Practice Meditative Prayer.” The article is written by an Acts 29 (Driscoll’s network of churches) pastor, Winfield Bevins. A nearly identical article on Driscoll’s site, also by Bevins, is titled Meditative Prayer: Filling the Mind. Both articles show a drawing of a human brain. In this latter article, Bevins recognizes contemplative mystic pioneer Richard Foster:


What do we mean by meditative prayer? Is there such a thing as Christian meditation? Isn’t meditation non-Christian? According to Richard Foster, “Eastern meditation is an attempt to empty the mind. Christian meditation is an attempt to fill the mind” (Celebration of Discipline). Rather than emptying the mind we fill it with God’s word. We must not neglect a vital part of our Judeo-Christian heritage simply because other traditions use a form of meditation.
Bevins has got this very wrong, as does Richard Foster. Contemplative proponents say that, while the method practiced by Christian contemplatives and eastern-religion mystics may be similar (repeating a word or phrase over and over in order to eliminate distractions and a wandering mind), the Christian variety is ok because the mind isn’t being emptied but rather filled. But in essence, both are emptying the mind (i.e., stopping the normal thought process). That is where the contemplatives say making a space for God to fill.

The Bevins’ reference to Richard Foster is not the only contemplative marker on Mark Driscoll’s site . In an article written by Driscoll himself, ironically titled Obedience, Driscoll tells readers to turn to Richard Foster and contemplative Gary Thomas. Driscoll states:


If you would like to study the spiritual disciplines in greater detail … helpful are Celebration of Discipline, by Richard Foster, and Sacred Pathways, by Gary Thomas.
In Celebration of Discipline (1978 ed., p. 13), Richard Foster says that “we should all without shame enroll in the school of contemplative prayer.” To understand Foster’s meaning of “contemplative prayer,” he has written a number of books that clearly show his propensity toward the mystics (such as John Main and Thomas Merton). Devotional Classics, Spiritual Classics, Meditative Prayer, Prayer: Finding the Heart’s True Home are a few. His founding organization, Renovare, has a vast number of resources, articles, etc. that further substantiate our claims that Foster is a contemplative proponent.

more.....

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=1640

(Richard Foster is a Quaker nutjob....more on him later maybe...Bob Dewaay has covered Driscoll and mysticism)
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Contemplative Prayer and Emerging Church movements

Post by zone on Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:15 pm

To the Reader: This page contains hyper-links to selected articles and information on the Contemplative Prayer and Emerging Church movements. It will be updated as new information is made available. The recommended reading list appears at the bottom of the page.
http://www.christianresearchservice.com/Contemplative.htm
(i've been through most of this site...)
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Spiritual Abuse

Post by zone on Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:23 pm


Spiritual Abuse


by David Henke

Founding Date: Spiritual abuse is as old as false religion itself. While the practice is old, the term "spiritual abuse" may have been coined first by Jeff VanVonderen.

Organizational Structure: Can occur under virtually any organizational structure, but "top down" hierarchical structures are especially well suited to systemic spiritual abuse.

DEFINED


Spiritual abuse is the misuse of a position of power, leadership, or influence to further the selfish interests of someone other than the individual who needs help. Sometimes abuse arises out of a doctrinal position. At other times it occurs because of legitimate personal needs of a leader that are being met by illegitimate means. Spiritually abusive religious systems are sometimes described as legalistic, mind controlling, religiously addictive, and authoritarian.

COMMON CHARACTERISTICS


#1) Authoritarian


The most distinctive characteristic of a spiritually abusive religious system, or leader, is the over-emphasis on authority. Because a group claims to have been established by God Himself the leaders in this system claim the right to command their followers.

This authority supposedly comes from the position they occupy. In Matthew 23:1-2 Jesus said the Scribes and Pharisees "sit in Moses' seat," a position of spiritual authority. Many names are used but in the abusive system this is a position of power, not moral authority. The assumption is that God operates among His people through a hierarchy, or "chain of command." In this abusive system unconditional submission is often called a "covering," or "umbrella of protection" which will provide some spiritual blessing to those who fully submit. Followers may be told that God will bless their submission even if the leadship is wrong. It is not their place to judge or correct the leadership - God will see to that.

#2) Image Conscious


The abusive religious system is scrupulous to maintain an image of righteousness. The organization's history is often misrepresented in the effort to demonstrate the organization's special relationship to God. The mistaken judgements and character flaws of its leaders are denied or covered up in order to validate their authority. Impossibly high legalistic standards of thought and behavior may be imposed on the members. Their failure to live up to these standards is a constant reminder of the follower's inferiority to his leaders, and the necessity of submission to them. Abusive religion is, at heart, legalism.

Abusive religion is also paranoid. Because the truth about the abusive religious system would be quickly rejected if recognized, outsiders are shown only a positive image of the group. This is rationalized by assuming that the religion would not be understood by "worldly" people; therefore they have no right to know. This attitude leads to members being secretive about some doctrines and the inner policies and proceedures of the group. Leaders, especially, will keep secrets from their members. This secrecy is rooted in a basic distrust of others because the belief system is false and can not stand scrutiny.

#3) Suppresses Criticism


Because the religious system is not based on the truth it cannot allow questions, dissent, or open discussions about issues. The person who dissents becomes the problem rather than the issue he raised. The truth about any issue is settled and handed down from the top of the hierarchy. Questioning anything is considered a challenge to authority. Thinking for oneself is suppressed by pointing out that it leads to doubts. This is portrayed as unbelief in God and His anointed leaders. Thus the follower controls his own thoughts by fear of doubting God.

#4) Perfectionistic


A most natural assumption is that a person does not get something for nothing. Apart from the express declarations of salvation by grace through faith God has given in the scriptures, it would be natural to think that one must earn salvation, or at least work to keep it. Thus, in abusive religions all blessings come through performance of spiritual requirements. Failure is strongly condemned so there is only one alternative, perfection. So long as he thinks he is succeeding in his observation of the rules, the follower typically exhibits pride, elitism, and arrogance. However, when reality and failure eventually set in, the result is the person experiences spiritual burnout, or even shipwreck of his faith. Those who fail in their efforts are labeled as apostates, weak, or some other such term so that they can be discarded by the system.

#5) Unbalanced


Abusive religions must distinguish themselves from all other religions so they can claim to be distinctive and therefore special to God. This is usually done by majoring on minor issues such as prophecy, carrying biblical law to extremes, or using strange methods of biblical interpretation. The imbalanced spiritual hobby-horse thus produced represents unique knowledge or practices which seem to validate the group's claim to special status with God.

BIBLICAL RESPONSE


Examples of spiritual abuse are found throughout the Bible. God describes (and condemns) the "shepherds of Israel" who feed themselves rather than the flock, who do not heal those who are hurting, or seek to bring back those who were driven away but rather discard them, ruling with force and cruelty (Ezekiel 34:1-10). Jesus reacted with anger against the thievery of the money changers in the Temple as they misused God's people for selfish reasons (Matthew 21:12-13; Mark 11:15-18; Luke 19:45-47; John 2:13-16). He was angry at those more concerned with rules and regulations than with human suffering (Mark 3:1-5). In Matthew 23, Jesus describes the abusive spiritual leader in great detail. In John 9 the Pharisees "cast out" the man born blind simply because the truth he told about his healing exposed their own corruption. In Acts 7:51-56, Stephen called the Jewish leaders to account over their spiritual abuse. His testimony of Christ vindicated Jesus, whom they had abused, and condemned them. The legalistic Jews were so angry they stoned Stephen to death. In Galatians Paul addressed a performance based Christianity which leads to the abuse of legalism. There are many more such examples.

As God in human flesh, Jesus had legitimate spiritual authority. But He did not exercise it to gain power for Himself, or to abuse and control others with rules and regulations. He said, "Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest" (Matt. 11:28). The Greek word for "heavy laden" is phortizo which means here "to overburden with ceremony (or spiritual anxiety)" (Strong's Concordance #5412). Jesus gave a balanced perspective on positional authority when he said, "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren" (Matthew 23:8). He gave another key to discernment when He taught, "He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory..." (John 7:18a).

Jesus was not "image conscious." He was willing to associate with wine drinkers, cheating tax collectors and even prostitutes. He accused the legalistic Pharisees of "teaching for doctrine the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:9) and likened their showy, hypocritical outward rightousness to "whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness" (Matthew 23:27).

Neither was He paranoid. His ministry was conspicuously open to the public. When He was on trial (John 18) He was asked about His teachings and His reply was, "Why askest thou me?" Jesus pointed out that He always taught in public, and never in secret, so why not ask His disciples. He had nothing to hide.

Jesus did not fear to criticize the religious leaders or their faulty doctrines (e.g. Matthew 15:1-9; 23:1-39, etc.). And when confronted with criticism or with treacherous questions designed to discredit Him, His response was never to simply demand silence or only positive recognition from His accusers. Rather, He gave answers - scriptural and reasonable answers - to their objections (e.g. Luke 7:36-47; Matthew 19:3-9).

Jesus upheld the high standard of the Law, yet He clearly placed the legitimate needs of people before any rules or regulations (Matthew 12:1-13; Mark 2:23-3:5). The scriptures make it clear that no one will cease to sin in this life (Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8). Jesus made it plain, however, that one can know in this life that one has eternal life (John 5:24; 6:37-40), a theme developed by Paul throughout his epistles, and by John (1 John 5:10-13).

The Pharisees, quintessential spiritually abusive leaders, were quite unbalanced in their perception of what mattered most to God. Jesus said they, "...pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, - judgment, mercy, and faith...." (Matthew 23:23).

EFFECTS OF SPIRITUAL ABUSE


Spiritual abuse has a devastating effect on people. A very high level of trust is often placed in spiritual leaders. It is, and ought to be, expected that the trust will be honored and guarded. When such trust is violated the wound is very deep. Sometimes the wound is so deep that the wounded person cannot trust even a legitimate spiritual authority again.

An analogous situation exists with the victims of incest. The emotional and psychological symptoms exhibited by victims of incest parallel those of spiritual abuse to a remarkable degree. The main symptom is the inability to relate normally to people who represent the source of their emotional injury.

Besides an unhealthy fear of, and disillusionment with, spiritual authorities, the spiritually abused person may find it difficult to trust even God. "How could (or why did) He let this happen to me?" Anger is also deeply felt. Anger itself is not always wrong - God Himself expresses anger at such spiritual abuse (see Biblical Response, above). However, even legitimate anger, if not properly channeled and dealt with, can degenerate into bitterness and cynicism toward everything spiritual.

RECOVERY FROM SPIRITUAL ABUSE


Healthy recovery from spiritual abuse must begin with understanding what has happened and how. A victim usually thinks he is the only one experiencing these problems. Just being able to give a name to the problem is important. There are many books on the subject (see Resources, below) that will be helpful in learning about spiritual abuse and recovery.

Afterward the abused person must learn the true nature of God's grace, love and forgiveness. This is the foundation for being able to eventually forgive the abuser. Being able to share the experience and what has been learned so as to minister to someone else's need is also very important. This could be done in a support group made up of people with a similar experience who can share the healing love of Christ.

Finally, a lot of time must be allowed for full recovery.

RESOURCES


The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, by David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen, Bethany House Publishers. Dynamite! Excellent help for recognizing and escaping spiritual manipulation and false spiritual authority within the Church. 235 pages-$10.

Faith That Hurts, Faith That Heals, by Stephen Arterburn, and Jack Felton, Thomas Nelson Publishers. Very thorough treatment, analyzes beliefs that make harmful faith, religious addiction, etc. as well as treatment and recovery, and the characteristics of healthy faith. 320 pages-$11.

Breaking Free, by David R. Miller, Baker Book House. Speaking first-hand from the experiences of his own family, Miller penetrates virtually every nuance of legalism and its insidious effects on individual and family life. 176 pages-$10.

Wisdom Hunter, be Randall Arthur, Multnomah Press. Taut, fast-paced thriller presents a powerful message about the damage caused by Christian legalism. 323 pages-$10.

Churches That Abuse, by Ronald Enroth, Zondervan. Providing real-life examples throughout, Enroth probes every corner of the abusive church. He also provides help to find the way out, and back to God's healing. 253 pages, endnotes-$6.

http://www.watchman.org/profile/abusepro.htm

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by vietrandy on Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:19 pm

Zone, Wow! Great stuff you put out here. i'm so thankful others are sounding the alarm with this mad dog running around destroying people's lives. I'm especially touched by your post on spiritual abuse. I really, really needed to read this and no doubt I will reread it many times. I needed this, thank you so much. God bless you.

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by Strangelove on Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:25 pm

Ya great stuff Sister Zone.

As usual, you've been through these matters 10 times already.

Love you.

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by Grandpa on Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:07 pm

I'm sorry to hear this about Mark Driscoll. I used to listen to his sermons on the radio and I liked them. I wonder what happened?

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by Strangelove on Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:09 pm

Grandpa wrote:I'm sorry to hear this about Mark Driscoll. I used to listen to his sermons on the radio and I liked them. I wonder what happened?

I dont think he's a complete heretic doctrinally Gramps.....but he's turning.

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by John Chingford on Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:35 pm

Strangelove wrote:
and I will paste it
I dont think he's a complete heretic doctrinally Gramps.....but he's turning.

Hi Everybody Very Happy

Thanks for the invitation to join your forum Doc. Sorry for what happened to you yesterday.

Regarding Mark Driscoll, His background was being brought through the ranks of New Frontiers. They originated in my country (UK) being an offshoot of the House Church Restoration movement with links to the original Latter Rain and shepherding movements. If you want to know more about New Frontiers I have information about them on my blog. Please let me know and I will paste it.

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by zone on Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:52 pm

post away john

very happy you're here. i'm just crushed and sobbing at the moment watching the latest UN/NGO NOAHIDE infiltration to those poor people in Ghana. Dear Lord have mercy. please send your Own people i beg you.

is anyone here able to go there? PLEASE!

zone
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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by Strangelove on Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:02 pm

zone wrote:post away john

very happy you're here. i'm just crushed and sobbing at the moment watching the latest UN/NGO NOAHIDE infiltration to those poor people in Ghana. Dear Lord have mercy. please send your Own people i beg you.

is anyone here able to go there? PLEASE!

zone

Actually I think my buddy Randy is off to Africa soon?

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by Strangelove on Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:04 pm

John Chingford wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
and I will paste it
I dont think he's a complete heretic doctrinally Gramps.....but he's turning.

Hi Everybody Very Happy

Thanks for the invitation to join your forum Doc. Sorry for what happened to you yesterday.

Regarding Mark Driscoll, His background was being brought through the ranks of New Frontiers. They originated in my country (UK) being an offshoot of the House Church Restoration movement with links to the original Latter Rain and shepherding movements. If you want to know more about New Frontiers I have information about them on my blog. Please let me know and I will paste it.

Hey Chingy...good to see you mate.

Dont worry 'bout me I've been banned from about 20 forums already. No biggie. Shoulda taken your advice and toned it down a bit. Nevermind.

Yes please post any research you have gathered into the appropriate threads. We are very research orientated here and have gathered much info.

If you need any more tips regarding fighting the old hypothetical science downt hesistate to start a thread or ask me bud.

Lagrange points...lolz.....EASY!

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by MUSKOKAMAN on Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:19 pm

I think that "do the world a favour and don't marry any of your cousin's" was the straw that broke the camels back Doc.

Good one though I have to admit I laughed pretty hard after that.

It was obvious to me after 3 days at CC AOK was a disinfo agent seen their handiwork before

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by Strangelove on Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:23 pm

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:I think that "do the world a favour and don't marry any of your cousin's" was the straw that broke the camels back Doc.

Good one though I have to admit I laughed pretty hard after that.

It was obvious to me after 3 days at CC AOK was a disinfo agent seen their handiwork before

Erm...?...? That was AOK who said that to Chingy.

I think I got banned for telling Deadflesh that his post was 'immensely boring'

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Re: Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church

Post by John Chingford on Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:25 pm

zone wrote:post away john

very happy you're here. i'm just crushed and sobbing at the moment watching the latest UN/NGO NOAHIDE infiltration to those poor people in Ghana. Dear Lord have mercy. please send your Own people i beg you.

is anyone here able to go there? PLEASE!

zone

Hi Doc, Musk, Zone

Doc. I just tried to post my links but was not allowed. It says new members cannot do so for 7 days. Could you remove that block for me, so that I can post the links.

Thanks

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