Stationary Earth

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Grandpa on Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:11 am

I was looking into that Lagrangian point thing because I didn't know what it was. I found out it was just points that things would be in orbit because of gravity. I didn't see how geocentricity would change gravity...

I looked for your explanation but didn't find it.

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Strangelove on Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:57 am

Grandpa wrote:I was looking into that Lagrangian point thing because I didn't know what it was. I found out it was just points that things would be in orbit because of gravity. I didn't see how geocentricity would change gravity...

I looked for your explanation but didn't find it.

Ya I got banned before I could reply to that.

So they say:

"hey...we observe a phenomenon...and we have a theory that attempts to explain it, and that theory includes the assumption that the earth orbits the sun...therefore...the earth orbits the sun"


Shocked Circular much?

They say:

"The geocentric model doesnt predict these points like they appear"

Well, surprise! The geo model doesnt involve the assumption that the earth orbits the sun so WHY WOULD IT? We have different lagrange points because we view the universe differently...DUH! That doesnt mean that these areas where you can hang a sattelite are not there it just means their in a different place than YOU say because of your assumptions.

We do have 4 rock solid real experiments that prove the Earth is stationary but first you need a heliocentrist to admit that space is made up of substance rather than absolutely nothing. Which they are wary to do...because the clever ones know we can detect absolute motion by how light behaves...and by analyzing light beams that we shoot into the air in different directions at different times of the year......we know for sure the earth doesnt move.

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by MUSKOKAMAN on Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:07 am

How does shooting beams of light into the air explain geocentricism?

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Strangelove on Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:47 pm

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:How does shooting beams of light into the air explain geocentricism?

By analyazing how light behaves we can detect absolute motion.

We can use light beams to detect whether or not the earth is moving (eg..Michelson-Morley experiment), if it was moving at twice the speed of a bullet it would produce significant distortions in the light, but the experiments that test for this produce a null result...

....meaning, the earth is not moving.

The only way to counter these experiments...is to say that space is not made of stuff.....which is absurd...everythings made of something. Even Einstein...whose theory of general reletivity, which attempted to destroy the concept of a lumineferous aether (STUFF) admitted later in life that an aether absolutely has to exist.

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by MUSKOKAMAN on Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:25 pm

Your whole argument fails if there is nothing but a vacumm in space which is what they say there is!

The whole Heliocentric/Geocentric argument is a waste of time anyways!

You can use the old (I don't believe you cause the bible says so) argument till the cows come home and deny modern science all you want doesn't change the fact that we have sent literally thousands of probes in to space to understand it better that have accumulated data that refutes your hypothesis.

Your only evidence to point to the contrary is to say the last 500 years of space exploration is a ruse or conspiracy and your mishandeled interpretation of scripture!

1 Were the people who wrote the scripture Scientists or even learned men of science?

2 When explaining to a child why they got sick do you go into great depth of medical techno savvy telling them of viruses and germs and how they affected their body?

Or do you say it happened because of demons?

Or do you say you shouldn't eat or drink those things which make you ill?

God never gave us a technological breakdown of the cosmos! His revelations were given in accordance with our limited capabilities of understanding and earthbound observance of the heavens. Just as a child doesn't understand about viruses and germs and their interaction with the human body in illness, neither did we understand about the cosmological make up of the universe and its intricasies 3500 years ago when Moses wrote the Deuteronomical canon to explain to the children of Israel the makeup of the cosmos!

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Strangelove on Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:23 am

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Your whole argument fails if there is nothing but a vacumm in space which is what they say there is!

No, it doesnt fail...because a vacuum is simply a lack of AIR...not of SUBSTANCE. Light waves dont need air to be refracted.....only molecules of any kind. So the Michelson-Morley experiment stands as it has done for the last hundred years or so....and the earth still doesnt move.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:The whole Heliocentric/Geocentric argument is a waste of time anyways!

Then why are you here arrogantly arguing it?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:You can use the old (I don't believe you cause the bible says so)
argument till the cows come home and deny modern science all you want
doesn't change the fact that we have sent literally thousands of probes
in to space to understand it better that have accumulated data that
refutes your hypothesis.

Ok lets see all your accumulated data from space probes and modern science. Either give us the data or stop making this absurd claim.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Your only evidence to point to the contrary is to say the last 500 years
of space exploration is a ruse or conspiracy and your mishandeled
interpretation of scripture!

Either show me how I'm mishandling scripture or dont make the claim.

How has space exploration proved that the earth is moving? Do you understand reletive motion yet?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:1 Were the people who wrote the scripture Scientists or even learned men of science?

God wrote the scriptures. God doesnt lie.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:2 When explaining to a child why they got sick do you go into great
depth of medical techno savvy telling them of viruses and germs and how
they affected their body?

Or do you say it happened because of demons?

Or do you say you shouldn't eat or drink those things which make you ill?

I would tell them all except the demons part.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:God never gave us a technological breakdown of the cosmos!

Yes He did, He gave us the exact structure of the universe, from the surface of the Earth right up to the waters above the firmament.

Are you still having a crisis of faith regarding the innerancy of scripture? Most worrying for you Musk.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:His revelations were given in accordance with our limited capabilities
of understanding and earthbound observance of the heavens.

Regardless of that, His revelations reveal a stationary earth. Simplez.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Just as a child doesn't understand about viruses and germs and their
interaction with the human body in illness, neither did we understand
about the cosmological make up of the universe and its intricasies 3500
years ago when Moses wrote the Deuteronomical canon to explain to the
children of Israel the makeup of the cosmos!

Maybe YOU dont understand it..........I do. It's quite easy really.

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by MUSKOKAMAN on Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:16 am

[quote="Strangelove"]

No, it doesnt fail...because a vacuum is simply a lack of AIR...not of SUBSTANCE. Light waves dont need air to be refracted.....only molecules of any kind. So the Michelson-Morley experiment stands as it has done for the last hundred years or so....and the earth still doesnt move.



Then why are you here arrogantly arguing it?



Ok lets see all your accumulated data from space probes and modern science. Either give us the data or stop making this absurd claim.

No point Doc. you would just refute it like all the other stuff I have given you and say that it was a talmudist conspiracy responsible for the source of my info



Either show me how I'm mishandling scripture or dont make the claim.

How has space exploration proved that the earth is moving? Do you understand reletive motion yet?



God wrote the scriptures. God doesnt lie.
No he didn't men wrote it Doc. claiming a vision from God directed them


I would tell them all except the demons part.



Yes He did, He gave us the exact structure of the universe, from the surface of the Earth right up to the waters above the firmament.

Are you still having a crisis of faith regarding the innerancy of scripture? Most worrying for you Musk.


Suppose I am Doc. too many referrences that I just do not agree on when it comes to interpretation of meaning and I am getting quite fed up with being told I am wrong when my understanding of the English language would seem better than most I read on any site and the scripture and how I interpret it is my own belief of the true meaning of the text and even when I politely try to put forth my views I am met with a flurry of hatred and disrespect from those who would call themselves Christians but who would seem to me to be farther from the truth than I! Then the argument of heresy vs obvious truth developes and it's all down hill from there. After studying the bible more in depth than ever in my life from a NEUTRAL point of view I have drawn my own conclusions about Christianity and other world religions and have found that like most religions everyone regardless of religous belief believes they are doing what's best for you and feel they know more than you so you had better just listen up or you are damned to hell if you don't........................................

WELL I have come to many conclusions where Christianity is concerned not the least of which is errancy of transposition of scripture over millenia and will hold fast to a scripture I have found to be quite useful


  1. [url=http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1 Thessalonians+5:21&version=9]1 Thessalonians 5:21[/url]
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Doc. I have serious doubts about the common belief of Godhead

I have never found 1 piece of scripture that shows Jesus DIRECTLY claimed to be God not one! Other authors such as Paul say this but Haven't found anything in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John or 1 or 2 Peter that quote Jesus as saying "I am God"

Jesus himself said to give all glory to the father............no problem done!

I believe Jesus is the messiah spoken of by Daniel and many other old testament prophets and that He is the Son of God as scripture states and was given Authority over heaven and earth and all that is in it except the Father after his ascension because that is what the scriptures say 1 Peter 3:22 and I do not feel like going into a debate about it because THAT IS WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY I don't care what the greek exegete says it's greek man not english. When people hear my views they freak out and throw snide and sarcastic remarks around as though I attacked them themselves and when I find someone who seems to have a brain of their own I find it polluted with the teachings of somebody else from days gone bye instead of their own mind understanding the plain english before them. I have studied more history than I ever wanted too when it comes to the bible because something as important as my eternal soul I figure is kinda important to know the ins and outs of what it is I am supposed to believe in. Problem is any authority on the bible for the most part is already part of a group of people whom I find to be as much a part of the problem as they purpot themselves to be giving you an education on aquiring eternal life THEIR WAY!

Can't tell you how many debates with PPS I had and he always refers to the greek exegete on scripture as authoritative is the English not good enough?

What do the greeks have that the english don't?

Bottom line Doc. Life's handing me a crappy deal right now so I thought hey can't hurt let's give God another try perhaps he is listening and while were at it lets investigate and learn everthing I can get my hands on pertaining to the scriptures. So I have and the more I read the more my hypothesis as stated above seems to be corroberated. Then I meet these mighty theologians on the internet who say to me YOU ARE WRONG yet they can't prove to me how I am wrong other than jumping from one end of the bible to the other to pull out choice phrases to attempt to confound me because they are confounded themselves and believe their interpretations to be correct!

If God don't do something for me soon I don't know how much longer I can keep this up! My flesh is weak, I am broke (in more ways than one), my kids and wife and best friend think I have lost my mind and all I am doing is what I thought God wanted me to do! I haven't lost my faith I gained it yet in gaining it I have given up everything else so If he has a plan he had better make it plain soon because I am about a month away from a divorce and less than that for reposession of my only vehicle for non payment I have tried to sell almost everything I own but for some reason no buyers:cry:

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Grandpa on Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:38 pm

What are the other 3 experiments Doc?

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Strangelove on Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:11 am

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:No point Doc. you would just refute it like all the other stuff I
have given you and say that it was a talmudist conspiracy responsible
for the source of my info

Stop making the absurd claim that science proves heliocentricity then.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:No he didn't men wrote it Doc. claiming a vision from God directed them

Thats bad Musky.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Suppose I am Doc. too many referrences that I just do not agree on when
it comes to interpretation of meaning and I am getting quite fed up with
being told I am wrong when my understanding of the English language
would seem better than most I read on any site and the scripture and how
I interpret it is my own belief of the true meaning of the text and
even when I politely try to put forth my views I am met with a flurry of
hatred and disrespect from those who would call themselves Christians
but who would seem to me to be farther from the truth than I! Then the
argument of heresy vs obvious truth developes and it's all down hill
from there. After studying the bible more in depth than ever in my life
from a NEUTRAL point of view I have drawn my own conclusions about
Christianity and other world religions and have found that like most
religions everyone regardless of religous belief believes they are doing
what's best for you and feel they know more than you so you had better
just listen up or you are damned to hell if you
don't........................................

WELL I have come to
many conclusions where Christianity is concerned not the least of which
is errancy of transposition of scripture over millenia and will hold
fast to a scripture I have found to be quite useful Doc. I have serious doubts about the common belief of Godhead

I
have never found 1 piece of scripture that shows Jesus DIRECTLY claimed
to be God not one! Other authors such as Paul say this but Haven't found
anything in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John or 1 or 2 Peter that quote
Jesus as saying "I am God"

Jesus himself said to give all glory to the father............no problem done!

I
believe Jesus is the messiah spoken of by Daniel and many other old
testament prophets and that He is the Son of God as scripture states and
was given Authority over heaven and earth and all that is in it except
the Father after his ascension because that is what the scriptures say 1
Peter 3:22 and I do not feel like going into a debate about it because
THAT IS WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY I don't care what the greek exegete says
it's greek man not english.

Thats even worse. You may as well become a JW.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:When people hear my views they freak out and throw snide and sarcastic
remarks around as though I attacked them themselves and when I find
someone who seems to have a brain of their own I find it polluted with
the teachings of somebody else from days gone bye instead of their own
mind understanding the plain english before them. I have studied more
history than I ever wanted too when it comes to the bible because
something as important as my eternal soul I figure is kinda important to
know the ins and outs of what it is I am supposed to believe in.
Problem is any authority on the bible for the most part is already part
of a group of people whom I find to be as much a part of the problem as
they purpot themselves to be giving you an education on aquiring eternal
life THEIR WAY!

You may need to discover the possibility that YOU may be the problem Musk. You seem to be fading away doctrine wise. You say you are quite new to Christianity yes? A few months? Maybe you havn't quite got things figgered out like you thought? Is it possible?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Can't tell you how many debates with PPS I had and he always refers to
the greek exegete on scripture as authoritative is the English not good
enough?

What do the greeks have that the english don't?

Biblical scholarship includes the nessesity of studying the scriptures in their original languages. Its just essential. I cant understand what problem you have with that.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Bottom line Doc. Life's handing me a crappy deal right now so I thought
hey can't hurt let's give God another try perhaps he is listening and
while were at it lets investigate and learn everthing I can get my hands
on pertaining to the scriptures. So I have and the more I read the more
my hypothesis as stated above seems to be corroberated. Then I meet
these mighty theologians on the internet who say to me YOU ARE WRONG yet
they can't prove to me how I am wrong other than jumping from one end
of the bible to the other to pull out choice phrases to attempt to
confound me because they are confounded themselves and believe their
interpretations to be correct!

If God don't do something for me
soon I don't know how much longer I can keep this up! My flesh is weak, I
am broke (in more ways than one), my kids and wife and best friend
think I have lost my mind and all I am doing is what I thought God
wanted me to do! I haven't lost my faith I gained it yet in gaining it I
have given up everything else so If he has a plan he had better make it
plain soon because I am about a month away from a divorce and less than
that for reposession of my only vehicle for non payment I have tried to
sell almost everything I own but for some reason no buyers:cry:

Get right with God is all I can say buddy.

.......Jesus is God.

(PS...I'm broke too....doesnt bother me...God will provide.)

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Strangelove on Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:13 am

Grandpa wrote:What are the other 3 experiments Doc?

(3) SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENTS. Most scientists know about the Michelson-Morely experiment - that failed to detect any movement of the earth round the sun. This had to be overcome so the Fitzgerald-Lorentz shortening of the apparatus was proposed, and eventually the paradoxical Relativity Theory was invented by Einstein to overcome this problem. However, there are three other experiments that have been deliberately ignored by universities because they support geocentricity -

(a) The Michelson-Gale experiment (Reference - Astrophysical Journal 1925 v 61 pp 140-5 - I forgot to put this reference in my book!) This detected the aether passing the surface of the earth with an accuracy of 2% of the speed of the daily rotation of the earth! Thus, the Michelson-Morely experiment detected no movement of the earth around the sun, yet the Michelson-Gale experiment measured the earth's rotation (or the aether's rotation around the earth!) to within 2%! This surely speaks volumes for geocentricity.

(b) "Airey's failure" (Reference - Proc. Roy. Soc. London v 20 p 35). Telescopes have to be very slightly tilted to get the starlight going down the axis of the tube because of the earth's "speed around the sun". Airey filled a telescope with water that greatly slowed down the speed of the light inside the telescope and found that he did not have to change the angle of the telescope. This showed that the starlight was already coming in at the correct angle so that no change was needed. This demonstrated that it was the stars moving relative to a stationary earth and not the fast orbiting earth moving relative to the comparatively stationary stars. If it was the telescope moving he would have had to change the angle.

(c) The Sagnac experiment (Reference - Comptes Rendus 1913 v157 p 708-710 and 1410-3) Sagnac rotated a table complete with light and mirrors with the light being passed in opposite directions around the table between the mirrors. He detected the movement of the table by the movement of the interference fringes on the target where they were recombined. This proved that there IS an aether that the light has to pass through and this completely destroys Einstein's theory of Relativity that says there is no aether. It is for this reason that this experiment is completely ignored by scientists. More recently Kantor has found the same result with similar apparatus.

All these experiments are never taught at universities, so consequently, scientists, including most Christian creationists, are ignorant of this evidence for geocentricity. Is it any wonder, therefore, that Christian geocentrists find their most vociferous opponents are fellow Christian creationists to whom geocentricity comes as a shock. They do not want to be tarred with such a heretical brush that will only increase the great ridicule they are already receiving for their stance against evolution?

SOURCE: THE BASIC SCIENTIFIC ARGUMENTS FOR GEOCENTRICITY

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by MUSKOKAMAN on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:27 pm

Strangelove wrote:
And I can refute that too..



LEFT: Johannes Kepler, Heliocentrist, witch, Ratface. Probable murderer of...

RIGHT: Tychoe Brahe, Geocentrist, Christian, handsome and noble fellow.

Remember Doc. History is written by the victor! Though we differ in agreement on this topic is it truly a good thing that you judge by outward appearances?

What kind of light would you expect Keppler to be painted in considering his stance against Geocentricism and the period he lived and you continue to propagate the dissent put forth by the Catholic church of the era against a great man and thinker tsk tsk! All this because it has to fit the profile of the talmudic conspiracy?

Much of your argument if not all of it is based on observable motion with the naked eye and the rhetoric of those of like mind and their findings. You say if I cannot see it with my own eyes then it does not exist! Thank goodness you haven't used that approach to spirituallity or you would be doomed.

Have you seen Jesus?

How do you know he exists?

Have you ever seen an angel?

How do you know they exist?

Have you ever seen Satan or his demons?

How do you know they exist?

Have you ever seen heaven, hell or sheol?

How do you know it exists?

Pretty sure I know the answers you are going to give for the top 8 questions so you can skip them if you are going to say it is written in the bible:D

Can you see atoms or molecules with your own eyes?

How do you know they exist?

Can you see radiation with your own eyes Doc.?

Then how do you know it exists?

Can you see viruses with your own eyes Doc.?

Then how do you know they exist?

Can you see electricity with your eyes Doc.? Not the effects created by it itself?

Then how do you know it exists?

Can you see the force of magnets with your eyes Doc.? Not the effects created by them!

Then how do you know it exists?

Can you see the wind Doc.? Not the effects created by it the wind it self!

Then how do you know it exists?

Can you see love or hate in of itself not the effects created by either?

The earths orbit around the sun is not circular not even remotely this is thinking 2 dimensionally nor is geocentricism this also is 2 dimensionall thinking!

Do you know what a double helix is Doc.?

Best way I can explain this is using our own DNA as an example. Maybe that's why our DNA looks the way it does under a microscope?

The sun is on its course through space/time as it is not stationary either. So take the course of the sun on it's trip through the Galaxy although its course is seen as eliptical and essentially it is as such it is more akin to sine wave on an oscilloscope when viewed from the side or above or below because of the pull of Gravity that is exerted by the cellestial bodies within our solar system on the sun which is ever travelling it's orbit of the center of the galaxy therefore our true path through the cosmos is more of a corkscrew shape than a perfectly eliptical orbit. Giving it (the solar systems movements) a double helix (appearance) when viewed from a distance over a time period of years or decades! If it weren't for computers and the advancement of technology in the last 20 years this would never have been found. Yes this can explain how the sun sat in the sky for 24 hours without moving just as stated in Joshua.

I hope I am not writing this too fast as I know you can be a slow reader! LOL just kidding:lol:

When it all comes down to the brass tacts the material universe is only a temporary thing anyways so going to great lengths to understand it could be seen as a falling away from God when viewed from a more holy perspective! One cannot live on the eternal etherial plane with God without his permission anyways as it is written so shall it be! This is probably why I fight the doctrines of men with such fervour as I do because I take the following scriptures literally;


  1. Jeremiah 31:33
    But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


  2. Hebrews 8:10
    For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


  3. Hebrews 10:16
    This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by MUSKOKAMAN on Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:45 pm

Strangelove wrote:

(3) SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENTS. Most scientists know about the Michelson-Morely experiment - that failed to detect any movement of the earth round the sun. This had to be overcome so the Fitzgerald-Lorentz shortening of the apparatus was proposed, and eventually the paradoxical Relativity Theory was invented by Einstein to overcome this problem. However, there are three other experiments that have been deliberately ignored by universities because they support geocentricity -

(a) The Michelson-Gale experiment (Reference - Astrophysical Journal 1925 v 61 pp 140-5 - I forgot to put this reference in my book!) This detected the aether passing the surface of the earth with an accuracy of 2% of the speed of the daily rotation of the earth! Thus, the Michelson-Morely experiment detected no movement of the earth around the sun, yet the Michelson-Gale experiment measured the earth's rotation (or the aether's rotation around the earth!) to within 2%! This surely speaks volumes for geocentricity.

(b) "Airey's failure" (Reference - Proc. Roy. Soc. London v 20 p 35). Telescopes have to be very slightly tilted to get the starlight going down the axis of the tube because of the earth's "speed around the sun". Airey filled a telescope with water that greatly slowed down the speed of the light inside the telescope and found that he did not have to change the angle of the telescope. This showed that the starlight was already coming in at the correct angle so that no change was needed. This demonstrated that it was the stars moving relative to a stationary earth and not the fast orbiting earth moving relative to the comparatively stationary stars. If it was the telescope moving he would have had to change the angle.

(c) The Sagnac experiment (Reference - Comptes Rendus 1913 v157 p 708-710 and 1410-3) Sagnac rotated a table complete with light and mirrors with the light being passed in opposite directions around the table between the mirrors. He detected the movement of the table by the movement of the interference fringes on the target where they were recombined. This proved that there IS an aether that the light has to pass through and this completely destroys Einstein's theory of Relativity that says there is no aether. It is for this reason that this experiment is completely ignored by scientists. More recently Kantor has found the same result with similar apparatus.

All these experiments are never taught at universities, so consequently, scientists, including most Christian creationists, are ignorant of this evidence for geocentricity. Is it any wonder, therefore, that Christian geocentrists find their most vociferous opponents are fellow Christian creationists to whom geocentricity comes as a shock. They do not want to be tarred with such a heretical brush that will only increase the great ridicule they are already receiving for their stance against evolution?

SOURCE: THE BASIC SCIENTIFIC ARGUMENTS FOR GEOCENTRICITY

What a load of horsemanure the whole thing! LOL

The Sagnac experiment...........LOL it was performed on earth within an atmosphere no wonder he found an aether DUHHHHHHH!
Airey............hahahahaha lets fill the telescope with water kiddies that will give us exact measurements......lets not take into account parabolic distortion of water no that would blow the experiment to hell where it belongs. lol
Michaelson Galey ...........hmmm I guess Morley must have realized the stupidity of Michaelsons argument and left so Galey jumped on board.
The sun rises the sun sets, the sun rises the sun sets...........is this supposed to be proof?
A referrance to the time of day or an assurance of something to come being related to the listener or reader as the rising of the sun.

Pretty weak argument!

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Strangelove on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:16 pm

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Remember Doc. History is written by the victor! Though we differ in
agreement on this topic is it truly a good thing that you judge by
outward appearances?

Not judging anyone. It was a humerous reply to Timetheos post about geocentrists being ugly. Maybe grow a funny bone?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:What kind of light would you expect Keppler to be painted in considering
his stance against Geocentricism and the period he lived and you
continue to propagate the dissent put forth by the Catholic church of
the era against a great man and thinker tsk tsk!

He was a theorist nothing more. And he probably murdered Tycho Brahe...and he was a witch.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:All this because it has to fit the profile of the talmudic conspiracy?

You PM'd me before and said you were getting to grips with the talmudic conspiracy. Are you no going back to there being nothing of the sort?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Much of your argument if not all of it is based on observable motion with the naked eye

Its called real science.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:You say if I cannot see it with my own eyes then it does not exist!

I say real science testifies to a stationary earth. As does scripture.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Thank goodness you haven't used that approach to spirituallity or you would be doomed.

Have you seen Jesus?

How do you know he exists?

Have you ever seen an angel?

How do you know they exist?

Have you ever seen Satan or his demons?

How do you know they exist?

Have you ever seen heaven, hell or sheol?

How do you know it exists?

Pretty
sure I know the answers you are going to give for the top 8 questions
so you can skip them if you are going to say it is written in the
bible:D

Its written in the bible. You made it clear you dont believe the bible is the innerant Word of God. Thats your problem,....and it is a problem

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Can you see atoms or molecules with your own eyes?

How do you know they exist?

Can you see radiation with your own eyes Doc.?

Then how do you know it exists?

Can you see viruses with your own eyes Doc.?

Then how do you know they exist?

Can you see electricity with your eyes Doc.? Not the effects created by it itself?

Then how do you know it exists?

Can you see the force of magnets with your eyes Doc.? Not the effects created by them!

Then how do you know it exists?

Can you see the wind Doc.? Not the effects created by it the wind it self!

Then how do you know it exists?

Can you see love or hate in of itself not the effects created by either?

So your argument is that anything anyone tells us is true no matter if we observe it or not? Just believe the theoretical scientists right?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:The earths orbit around the sun is not circular not even remotely this is thinking 2 dimensionally

What orbit? There is no orbit.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Do you know what a double helix is Doc.?

Best way I can explain
this is using our own DNA as an example. Maybe that's why our DNA looks
the way it does under a microscope?

The sun is on its course
through space/time as it is not stationary either. So take the course of
the sun on it's trip through the Galaxy although its course is seen as
eliptical and essentially it is as such it is more akin to sine wave on
an oscilloscope when viewed from the side or above or below because of
the pull of Gravity that is exerted by the cellestial bodies within our
solar system on the sun which is ever travelling it's orbit of the
center of the galaxy therefore our true path through the cosmos is more
of a corkscrew shape than a perfectly eliptical orbit. Giving it (the
solar systems movements) a double helix (appearance) when viewed from a
distance over a time period of years or decades! If it weren't for
computers and the advancement of technology in the last 20 years this
would never have been found.

You have no evidence of any solar galactic orbit. None at all. Your making the whole thing up.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Yes this can explain how the sun sat in the sky for 24 hours without moving just as stated in Joshua.

Nope, it doesnt....you have to say the earth stopped its rotation too!

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:I hope I am not writing this too fast as I know you can be a slow reader! LOL just kidding:lol:

When
it all comes down to the brass tacts the material universe is only a
temporary thing anyways so going to great lengths to understand it could
be seen as a falling away from God when viewed from a more holy
perspective!

LOLZ!

This is cuz you dont want us to question your big bang, expanding 15 billion year old universe religion right? Sorry...but it is YOU who are falling away just like Paul said to Timothy regarding SCIENCE FALSELY SO CALLED and erring from the faith.

Look at you...you deny divinity of Jesus, innerency of scripture, the gGenesis creation scenario....you have ERRED badly Musk.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:One cannot live on the eternal etherial plane with God without his
permission anyways as it is written so shall it be! This is probably why
I fight the doctrines of men with such fervour as I do because I take
the following scriptures literally;

You CHAMPION the doctrines of men dude.

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Strangelove on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:22 pm

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:What a load of horsemanure the whole thing! LOL

The Sagnac experiment...........LOL it was performed on earth within an atmosphere no wonder he found an aether DUHHHHHHH!

So you admit theres an aether? Good. Therefore the Michelson-Morley experiment stands and the earth is stationary.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Airey............hahahahaha lets fill the telescope with water kiddies
that will give us exact measurements......lets not take into account
parabolic distortion of water no that would blow the experiment to hell
where it belongs. lol

Are you gonna explain how parabolic distortion of water refutes the experiment? You would be the first person on earth to ever try. G'head.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Michaelson Galey ...........hmmm I guess Morley must have realized the
stupidity of Michaelsons argument and left so Galey jumped on board.

Childish mocking does not refute real science either.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:The sun rises the sun sets, the sun rises the sun sets...........is this supposed to be proof?

It's alot more than what you got.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:A referrance to the time of day or an assurance of something to come
being related to the listener or reader as the rising of the sun.

Pretty weak argument!

Maybe we should apply that reasoning to the ressurection of Christ. The rising of the SUN of righteousness. That would prolly fit in quite well with your current apostacy actually. Maybe the whole thing didnt really happen it was just scripture explaining it so's our feeble minds could comprehend?

See how the weakness is in your argument not mine?

Mines rock solid.

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by MUSKOKAMAN on Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:12 pm

--ADMIN EDITED OUT OFF TOPIC CONTENT---

So you admit theres an aether? Good. Therefore the Michelson-Morley experiment stands and the earth is stationary.


Once again you take words out of context to attempt to prove your point! On earth there are bound to be aethers but NOT in space!

On earth, where the experiment was performed there is an atmosphere so logically there are aethers but there are NONE in space.

Are you saying the experiment was performed outside our atmosphere?

Since the onus is on you to prove Geocentricism it is you who has to provide empiracal evidence to support your theory not I my friend

[So your argument is that anything anyone tells us is true no matter if we observe it or not? Just believe the theoretical scientists right?

---ADMIN--Please try and stay on topic and dont clog up this thread with emotional rhetoric...thanks.

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Strangelove on Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:42 am

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Once again you take words out of context to attempt to prove your point! On earth there are bound to be aethers but NOT in space!

On earth, where the experiment was performed there is an atmosphere so logically there are aethers but there are NONE in space.

"Aether" was described by Albert Michelson as "the most generalized term in science". It just means STUFF. The aether is the STUFF that the firmament (heavens) is made out of. So yet again we see that your only challenge to these experiments is to say that space is not made up of STUFF. Which is absurd, everything is made from something.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:
Are you saying the experiment was performed outside our atmosphere?

It doesnt need to be! The aether comes right down to the ground. The only difference in our atmosphere is a different chemical make up. A spinning atmosphere independent from the rest of the aether makes ZERO SENSE as proved by this article by a PhD geocentrist:

Heliocentric problem no. 3 - Restoring Forces

And a spinning atmosphere in relation to a spinning earth picked up by this experiment makes even LESS sense! How did they pick up an aether drag if the earth is spinning exactly in sync with it!? Lolz!

Airy's failure proved that its the stars moving not the earth. You mentioned something about parabolics? Are you gonna explain why this refutes the experiment?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:
Since the onus is on you to prove Geocentricism it is you who has to provide empiracal evidence to support your theory not I my friend

No my friend...it is YOU who inists that everything we see is an illusion, therfore the onus is on YOU to prove that this illusion is real. Until then I will believe observational science and the bible, which both testify to Gods stationary earth.


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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by MUSKOKAMAN on Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:44 pm

had a excellent response to the above Doc. then comp. crashed oh well

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by MUSKOKAMAN on Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:34 am

Strangelove wrote:

"Aether" was described by Albert Michelson as "the most generalized term in science". It just means STUFF. The aether is the STUFF that the firmament (heavens) is made out of. So yet again we see that your only challenge to these experiments is to say that space is not made up of STUFF. Which is absurd, everything is made from something.

STUFF........STUFF...........er........umm........well isn't that scientific......Thought it was a void or vaccumm.....lol



It doesnt need to be! The aether comes right down to the ground. The only difference in our atmosphere is a different chemical make up. A spinning atmosphere independent from the rest of the aether makes ZERO SENSE as proved by this article by a PhD geocentrist:

Heliocentric problem no. 3 - Restoring Forces

And a spinning atmosphere in relation to a spinning earth picked up by this experiment makes even LESS sense! How did they pick up an aether drag if the earth is spinning exactly in sync with it!? Lolz!
no one said the atmosphere was spinning
Airy's failure proved that its the stars moving not the earth. You mentioned something about parabolics? Are you gonna explain why this refutes the experiment?

Think about it man look through a lake sometime ............better still try spearfishing and you will learn about refraction!,.......lol



I am on the heliocentric side remember I have more evidence than you ever will .......problem is you won't accept it so the problem here is with your acceptance of modern scientific data rather than hyperbolus rhetoric of those who misinterpret scripture for their own purposes!

No my friend...it is YOU who inists that everything we see is an illusion, therfore the onus is on YOU to prove that this illusion is real. Until then I will believe observational science and the bible, which both testify to Gods stationary earth.

Nope that's your misinterpretation and spurious exsponging of modern scientific data as nonsense!

I never once mentioned illusion as anything we see, suppose that is a misdirectional ......oh well any ways show 1 piece of scripture that definitively shows the earth as the center of the cosmos just 1


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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by zone on Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:23 am

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:oh well any ways show 1 piece of scripture that definitively shows the earth as the center of the cosmos just 1

Genesis 1

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.



He created the earth FIRST. on the fist day. and God saw that it was good.

He created the stars sun and moon on the fourth day.

He created them ALL for the purposes of life on earth.

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Strangelove on Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:59 am

This is your excellent response?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:STUFF........STUFF...........er........umm........well isn't that scientific......Thought it was a void or vaccumm.....lol

Even the void or vacuum is made out of STUFF. You can either agree or deny. So whats it to be? Summink or nuffink?

What do your modern scientists say? The high priests of your religion?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Think about it man look through a lake sometime ............better still try spearfishing and you will learn about refraction!

Jumping up and down on the spot, waving your arms around, shouting out scientificcy words like "PARABOLICS" and "REFRACTION" is not conducive to scientific debate on the topic. Either explain your position and show how the experiments are in error (or at LEAST link to a study that shows it) or stop making the claim.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:I am on the heliocentric side remember I have more evidence than
you ever will .......problem is you won't accept it so the problem here
is with your acceptance of modern scientific data rather than
hyperbolus rhetoric of those who misinterpret scripture for their own
purposes!

I will consider any scientific data you have to share with us. So far you have brought none forward. Saying that you dont want to because I would not accept/refute it, is just a giant hairy COPOUT.

The truth is you have no evidence for the helio model, none at all. Cuz its false. Pride is all thats keeping you going at this point.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Nope that's your misinterpretation and spurious exsponging of modern scientific data as nonsense!

What modern scientific data?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:I never once mentioned illusion as anything we see, suppose that is a misdirectional

Heliocentrism carries with it the concept that what we see and feel is illusion. Example...the moon orbiting earth east to west is an illusion...you say it actually orbits west to east.

PROVE IT. Prove it to be illusion rather than real!

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:oh well any ways show 1 piece of scripture that definitively shows the earth as the center of the cosmos just 1

The thread is called stationary earth. I've produced scripture that teaches this concept. You havn't addressed any of it.

If the earth is stationary then it has to be the centre of the universe.

Remember the onus is on YOU. What have you produced to support your position?

Absolutely ZILCH. No science, no scripture, nothing. All you can do is rabidly fend off all of my evidence proving biblical geocentrism.

Dont trust modern science man. What do you think 'science falsely so called' is? Question

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by MUSKOKAMAN on Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:07 pm

Hello Doc. hope your day is well?

will consider any scientific data you have to share with us. So far you have brought none forward. Saying that you dont want to because I would not accept/refute it, is just a giant hairy COPOUT.


If you refute what NASA tells you of the nature of our Solar system then you refute scientific data my friend

Heliocentrism carries with it the concept that what we see and feel is illusion. Example...the moon orbiting earth east to west is an illusion...you say it actually orbits west to east.

PROVE IT. Prove it to be illusion rather than real!


so all those photos and satellites collecting data above the earth are false and total lies then is that it?

Where did I say the moon moves west to east? Is this more propaganda to attempt to discredit my beliefs in the nature of the Solar system and others who may read what I have to say and agree?

I NEVER SAID THAT DOC.

The moon orbits the planet (earth) east to west just to make darn sure you get the point!

Heliocentricism carries NO SUCH CONCEPTION WITHIN ME!

The illusion is believing that the earth is the center of all creation!

IT'S A LIE!

...............GOD IS THE CENTER OF ALL CREATION..............

The moon orbits the earth in 28 days that is why we have full moons new moons quarter moons etc. This is also why you don't see it in the night sky for many days each month as well but you will see it in the early morning or late afternoon during these periods. This is also why we have eclipses of the sun because of the aperture of the moon in midday over the sun. Why is this so hard for you to understand? The ancients knew this and yet you refute it to believe hyperbole of men instead!

Just because NASA shows you evidence to heliocentricism you deny everything they say because you say they are evil! Utter foolishness! Do you think that all who work for NASA are evil? Your proposterous argument in light of knowledge gained in the last 70 years is at best foolhearty and at it's worse counterproductive and destructive!

Sometimes Doc. even the wicked gain knowledge that would not have been attained had their wickedness not been used as a tool by God to bring forth knowledge to all of mankind for mankinds embetterment!

Heliocentricism makes more sense than any geocentric argument, even a child can understand it yet you prefer to believe in a flat earth that never moves with a sun orbiting you and your flat earth but this simply cannot be due to the size of the sun and what an orbiting mass that large would do to the moons orbit around earth! (rip it from it's very orbit of the planet)

Though you hold the likes of Albert Einstien, Edwin hubble, Isaac Newton, Johannes Keppler and Galileo as evil heretics bent on decieving the whole world I DO NOT! These were all great thinkers and mathematicians and astronomers whom you speak ill of though they are all dead and cannot be here to defend their own gifts of God and the knowledge HE BESTOWED UPON THEM! FOR SHAME!

You do all this because your pride will not allow your heart to see what's before your own eyes and accept it as such. Preferring instead to listen to the doctrine of devil possessed men such as Tycho Brahe and Albert Michelson..........Sorry Doc. It is YOU who is wrong not I in this regard.

LISTEN UP PROPHET IN THE WILDERNESS SO THAT YOU MAY KNOW THAT THE LORDS WAYS ARE MYSTERIOUS AND ARE NOT THAT OF MAN! WAS JOSEPH NOT RAISED FROM THE PIT TO BECOME LORD OVER ALL EGYPT AND GIVEN LORDSHIP BY PHAROAH HIMSELF?

DID HIS BROTHERS BELIEVE WHEN HE TOLD THEM THEY WOULD BOW TO HIM?

YOUR MIND IS MUDDIED AS THE PHARISEES, PREFERRING OLD TRADITIONS OF MEN AND THEIR WORDS OVER THE TRUTH THAT IS BEFORE YOU!

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by MUSKOKAMAN on Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:51 pm

zone wrote:

Genesis 1

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.



He created the earth FIRST. on the fist day. and God saw that it was good.

He created the stars sun and moon on the fourth day.

He created them ALL for the purposes of life on earth.

how does this prove stationary earth
BTW where did the light come from or what was it's source that God created on the first day?

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Strangelove on Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:39 pm

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:If you refute what NASA tells you of the nature of our Solar system then you refute scientific data my friend

Are you ever gonna show us this data?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:so all those photos and satellites collecting data above the earth are false and total lies then is that it?

What data? Is it relevant to this topic? Can we see it?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Where did I say the moon moves west to east? Is this more propaganda to
attempt to discredit my beliefs in the nature of the Solar system and
others who may read what I have to say and agree?

I NEVER SAID THAT DOC.

The moon orbits the planet (earth) east to west just to make darn sure you get the point!

Well, then you are a GEOCENTRIST. Congratulations!

(on the other hand, its possible that you simply have no idea what your talking about...seeing as anyone who thinks the earth is spinning on its axis, has to say the moon actually orbits west to east even though we observe an east to west orbit.)

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Heliocentricism carries NO SUCH CONCEPTION WITHIN ME!

Ok then, regardless of what is the centre of the system...if you have a spinning earth...you have to say the moon has a real orbit of west to east. Are you saying the moon actually orbits the earth east to west (clockwise) rather than the other way?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:The illusion is believing that the earth is the center of all creation!

IT'S A LIE!

...............GOD IS THE CENTER OF ALL CREATION..............

Erm...huh? God is omnipresent. You could hardly pin Him down to the centre of creation...Him not being part of creation. On the other hand...Earth is where He sent His Son....where all the action is taking place...and is biblically and scientifically the centre of creation.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:The moon orbits the earth in 28 days that is why we have full moons new
moons quarter moons etc. This is also why you don't see it in the night
sky for many days each month as well but you will see it in the early
morning or late afternoon during these periods. This is also why we have
eclipses of the sun because of the aperture of the moon in midday over
the sun. Why is this so hard for you to understand? The ancients knew
this and yet you refute it to believe hyperbole of men instead!

Why is it so hard for you to understand that there is no physical difference regardless of what you have at the centre of the system? None of your moon phases or eclipses are evidence of anything. You could put the moon as the centre of the system and you would observe exactly the same things from earth.

Whats your evidence for a 28 day orbit? I see the moon orbit ONCE PER DAY. You say this is an illusion. Prove it.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Just because NASA shows you evidence to heliocentricism you deny
everything they say because you say they are evil! Utter foolishness! Do
you think that all who work for NASA are evil? Your proposterous
argument in light of knowledge gained in the last 70 years is at best
foolhearty and at it's worse counterproductive and destructive!

I must have missed where you posted the evidence from NASA. Can you show me please?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Sometimes Doc. even the wicked gain knowledge that would not have been
attained had their wickedness not been used as a tool by God to bring
forth knowledge to all of mankind for mankinds embetterment!

Heliocentricism makes more sense than any geocentric argument, even a child can understand it

Actually it makes no sense at all. Geocentrism is simple and lines up with what we observe and feel here on earth. We see everything orbiting us and we feel still here on earth. No movement.

Anyway...simply saying that helio model makes more sense is not proof that it is true.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:yet you prefer to believe in a flat earth that never moves with a sun orbiting you and your flat earth

Huh? Flat earth? What? Why are you intentionally misrepresenting my position? Is it cuz your own argument is so weak you have to resort to discrediting me?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:but this simply cannot be due to the size of the sun and what an
orbiting mass that large would do to the moons orbit around earth! (rip
it from it's very orbit of the planet)

Lolz..

1) You dont know the mass of the sun
2) Why doesnt the sun rip the moon from its orbit in the helio model?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Though you hold the likes of Albert Einstien, Edwin hubble, Isaac
Newton, Johannes Keppler and Galileo as evil heretics bent on decieving
the whole world I DO NOT! These were all great thinkers and
mathematicians and astronomers whom you speak ill of though they are all
dead and cannot be here to defend their own gifts of God and the
knowledge HE BESTOWED UPON THEM! FOR SHAME!

How about Darwin? Whats your thoughts on him?

And how does this emotional stuff help your position?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:You do all this because your pride will not allow your heart to see
what's before your own eyes
and accept it as such. Preferring instead to
listen to the doctrine of devil possessed men such as Tycho Brahe and
Albert Michelson..........Sorry Doc. It is YOU who is wrong not I in
this regard.

I see the moon and sun orbit the earth once every 24 hours. What do you see?

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:LISTEN UP PROPHET IN THE WILDERNESS SO THAT YOU MAY KNOW THAT THE LORDS
WAYS ARE MYSTERIOUS AND ARE NOT THAT OF MAN! WAS JOSEPH NOT RAISED FROM
THE PIT TO BECOME LORD OVER ALL EGYPT AND GIVEN LORDSHIP BY PHAROAH
HIMSELF?

DID HIS BROTHERS BELIEVE WHEN HE TOLD THEM THEY WOULD BOW TO HIM?

YOUR MIND IS MUDDIED AS THE PHARISEES, PREFERRING OLD TRADITIONS OF MEN AND THEIR WORDS OVER THE TRUTH THAT IS BEFORE YOU!

Dude can you calm down please?

Start at the top and answer each question in this post rationally. Thank you.


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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Strangelove on Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:41 pm

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:how does this prove stationary earth
BTW where did the light come from or what was it's source that God created on the first day?

There is no source, its a supernatural light.

BTW..where did the waters ABOVE the firmament go?

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by MUSKOKAMAN on Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:28 pm

Doc. here's my email [better not to leave personal emails lying around the threads]

please send me a message I have some questions of a private nature to ask!

Muskokaman

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Strangelove on Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:31 pm

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Doc. here's my email [better not to leave personal emails lying around the threads]

please send me a message I have some questions of a private nature to ask!

Muskokaman

You can use the forum PM system to talk if you like Musky.

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by MUSKOKAMAN on Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:36 pm

The view of modern science
Kepler's laws of planetary motion were used as arguments in favor of the heliocentric hypothesis. An apparent proof of the heliocentric hypothesis was provided only in 1838 by Friedrich Wilhelm Bessel. Bessel proved that parallax of a star was greater than zero. He measured the parallax of 0.314 arcseconds of a star named 61 Cygni. In the same year Friedrich Georg Wilhelm Struve and Thomas Henderson measured the parallaxes of other stars, Vega and Alpha Centauri.

The thinking that the heliocentric view was also not true in a strict sense was achieved in steps. That the Sun was not the center of the universe, but one of innumerable stars, was strongly advocated by the mystic Giordano Bruno, who had little regard for observation or experiment. Over the course of the 18th and 19th centuries, the status of the Sun as merely one star among many became increasingly obvious. By the 20th century, even before the discovery that there are many galaxies, it was no longer an issue.

The concept of an absolute velocity, including being "at rest" as a particular case, is ruled out by the principle of relativity, eliminating any obvious "center" of the universe as a natural origin of coordinates. Some forms of Mach's principle consider the frame at rest with respect to the distant masses in the universe to have special properties.

Even if the discussion is limited to the solar system, the Sun is not at the geometric center of any planet's orbit, but rather approximately at one focus of the elliptical orbit. Furthermore, to the extent that a planet's mass cannot be neglected in comparison to the Sun's mass, the center of gravity of the solar system is displaced slightly away from the center of the Sun.[70] (The masses of the planets, mostly Jupiter, amount to 0.14% of that of the Sun.) Therefore a hypothetical astronomer on an extrasolar planet would observe a small "wobble" in the Sun's motion.

[edit] Modern use of geocentric and heliocentric


In modern calculations the terms "geocentric" and "heliocentric" are often used to refer to coordinate systems that are chosen for practical reasons. In such systems the origin in the center of mass of the Earth, of the Earth-Moon system, of the Sun, of the Sun plus the major planets, or of the entire solar system can be selected. However, such selection of "geocentric" or "heliocentric" coordinates has only practical implications and not philosophical or physical ones.



Here is something to mull over Doc.!

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Strangelove on Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:51 pm

Trying to pass off a wiki article as your own now?

Ok.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:The view of modern science
Kepler's laws of planetary motion were used as arguments in favor of the heliocentric hypothesis.

But not proof....cus its a theory involving universal gravitation which is an assumption. We only observe gravity on earth.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:An apparent proof of the heliocentric hypothesis was provided only in 1838 by Friedrich Wilhelm Bessel. Bessel proved that parallax of a star was greater than zero. He measured the parallax of 0.314 arcseconds of a star named 61 Cygni. In the same year Friedrich Georg Wilhelm Struve and Thomas Henderson measured the parallaxes of other stars, Vega and Alpha Centauri.

Apparent proof because they didnt understand that kinematic evidences are irrelevant because you can put anything in the centre of the system and you would still see parallax of stars from your vantage point on earth.

So, again...its proof of nothing.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:The thinking that the heliocentric view was also not true in a strict
sense was achieved in steps. That the Sun was not the center of the
universe, but one of innumerable stars, was strongly advocated by the
mystic Giordano Bruno,
who had little regard for observation or experiment. Over the course of
the 18th and 19th centuries, the status of the Sun as merely one star
among many became increasingly obvious. By the 20th century, even before
the discovery that there are many galaxies, it was no longer an issue.

No science in there. Just the thoughts of a mystic and a bold pronouncement.

The sun is the sun. The stars are different. Read Genesis.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:The concept of an absolute velocity, including being "at rest" as a particular case, is ruled out by the principle of relativity, eliminating any obvious "center" of the universe as a natural origin of coordinates. Some forms of Mach's principle consider the frame at rest with respect to the distant masses in the universe to have special properties.

Hooray! Machian universe! Thats exactly what we live in. Earth at rest and everything spinning around us, just like we observe. It certainly explains coreolis.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Even if the discussion is limited to the solar system, the Sun is not at the geometric center of any planet's orbit, but rather approximately at one focus of the elliptical
orbit. Furthermore, to the extent that a planet's mass cannot be
neglected in comparison to the Sun's mass, the center of gravity of the
solar system is displaced slightly away from the center of the Sun.[70] (The masses of the planets, mostly Jupiter, amount to 0.14% of that of the Sun.) Therefore a hypothetical astronomer on an extrasolar planet would observe a small "wobble" in the Sun's motion.

We dont know the masses of anything. All that is totally theoretical.

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:In modern calculations the terms "geocentric" and "heliocentric" are often used to refer to coordinate systems that are chosen for practical reasons. In such systems the origin in the center of mass
of the Earth, of the Earth-Moon system, of the Sun, of the Sun plus the
major planets, or of the entire solar system can be selected. However,
such selection of "geocentric" or "heliocentric" coordinates has only
practical implications and not philosophical or physical ones.

See that? NO PHYSICAL IMPLICATIONS. No difference! Same same...geo and helio models are IDENTICAL, just with a different CO-ORDINATE SYSTEM.

Do you understand now? There is no observation you can bring forward that proves anything. Not moon phases, not parallax, not mars retrograde, not orbits...nada. All you got is gravity. And we only observe that on earth.

On the other hand I have 4 experiments that prove the earth doesnt move. Very Happy

Here is something to mull over Doc.!

Ya...erm....that took like, 2 minutes to dismiss...easily.

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by MUSKOKAMAN on Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:11 pm

Strangelove wrote:Trying to pass off a wiki article as your own now?

Ok.



But not proof....cus its a theory involving universal gravitation which is an assumption. We only observe gravity on earth.



Apparent proof because they didnt understand that kinematic evidences are irrelevant because you can put anything in the centre of the system and you would still see parallax of stars from your vantage point on earth.

So, again...its proof of nothing.



No science in there. Just the thoughts of a mystic and a bold pronouncement.

The sun is the sun. The stars are different. Read Genesis.



Hooray! Machian universe! Thats exactly what we live in. Earth at rest and everything spinning around us, just like we observe. It certainly explains coreolis.



We dont know the masses of anything. All that is totally theoretical.



See that? NO PHYSICAL IMPLICATIONS. No difference! Same same...geo and helio models are IDENTICAL, just with a different CO-ORDINATE SYSTEM.

Do you understand now? There is no observation you can bring forward that proves anything. Not moon phases, not parallax, not mars retrograde, not orbits...nada. All you got is gravity. And we only observe that on earth.

On the other hand I have 4 experiments that prove the earth doesnt move. Very Happy



Ya...erm....that took like, 2 minutes to dismiss...easily.

It's a wiki article Doc. so what! 2 minutes............huh........what a waste of my time to c/p all that just so you can say ......................duh ......................no...............use your head for more than a hatrack man if you truly believe that something that is 330,000 times larger than us orbits us then you got rocks in your head!

GRAVITATION................oh ya you don't believe in gravity either...........LOL where were you educated in a mine from cereal box covers........... seriously man geocentricism is the placard of the Catholic church and if you wish to continue believing in such nonsense then further debate is pointless let's just move on to ad hominen's then and see who can cuss more...........lol

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Re: Stationary Earth

Post by Grandpa on Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:48 am

Gravity doesn't explain motion of heavenly bodies very well. I know it is seemingly the only explanation science has for it but it logically makes no sense.

The theory is that all heavenly bodies having mass exert gravity on each other, right? The theory also is that the sun is so massive that it holds the earth in its perfect elliptical orbit by gravity. When the planets line up in their orbits shouldn't they pull on each other and cause everything to go out of whack? Also if there were just one planet and it had an elliptical orbit wouldn't that in and of itself cause it to spin off into space due to momentum after a few orbits? Shouldn't this be exacerbated by there being many planets?

I suppose gravity explaining motion of heavenly bodies would make more sense to me if the orbits of planets increased due to their mass. But mass doesn't seem to have anything to do with distance from the sun. How can that be? How can a planet with less mass assume a farther orbit? If gravity explains that then how can a planet with more mass assume a farther orbit?

Most of what I have seen is people assuming the earth orbits the sun and then they take everything from there. But what if it doesnt? Why would you assume that man's science is the correct view? Haven't you seen that when people extrapolate based on a theory they are usually wrong? Look to Darwin for this example in action.

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Re: Stationary Earth

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