Original Sin

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Original Sin

Post by zone on Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:59 pm

mkay.
here's a start, trying to keep it simple:

Definition of ORIGINAL SIN
1
: the state of sin that according to Christian theology characterizes all human beings as a result of Adam's fall
2
: a wrong of great magnitude

(i cheated and cut out some stuff from webster's)

k....so i understand you're trying to explain the physical/biological part of the fall.
but here's Genesis 3...how do you teach what happened and why it matters to someone in 2012...and what does it have to do with their CONDITION.

what i mean is, explaining a biological or material process of the "burying" or death of man's spirit as a result of sin doesn't explain or address the inclination to EVIL or SIN.

or does it?

i'm gonna plead for a FALL OF MAN 101 from you PPS because i'm struggling for even a way to frame my question at the moment:

Genesis 3
The Fall
1Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.

He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘Youa shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise,b she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. 7Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

8And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the coolc of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?”d 10And he said, “I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself.” 11He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?” 12The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.” 13Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

14The Lord God said to the serpent,

“Because you have done this,
cursed are you above all livestock
and above all beasts of the field;
on your belly you shall go,
and dust you shall eat
all the days of your life.
15I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspringe and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel.”

16To the woman he said,

“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be forf your husband,
and he shall rule over you.”

17And to Adam he said,

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife
and have eaten of the tree
of which I commanded you,
‘You shall not eat of it,’
cursed is the ground because of you;
in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
18thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
19By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread,
till you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
for you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.”

20The man called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.g 21And the Lord God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them.

22Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” 23therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. 24He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.



WHAT HAPPENED HERE and what does it have to do with me, and why am i in trouble without Jesus?
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CHARLES FINNEY

Post by zone on Sat May 19, 2012 7:35 pm

CHARLES FINNEY

ORIGINAL SIN -- We deny that the human constitution is morally depraved, because it is impossible that sin should be a quality of the substance of the soul or body. It is, and must be, a quality of choice or intention, and not of substance. To represent the constitution as sinful, is to represent God, who is the author of the constitution, as the author of sin. What ground is there for the assertion that Adam's nature became in itself sinful by the fall? This is a groundless, not to say ridiculous, assumption, and an absurdity (Finney's Systematic Theology, pp. 249,250).

REGENERATION -- Regeneration implies an entire present change of moral character, that is, a change from entire sinfulness to entire holiness (Ibid., p. 291).

JUSTIFICATION BASED UPON SANCTIFICATION -- We see that, if a righteous man forsake his righteousness, and die in his sin, he must sink to hell. Whenever a Christian sins he becomes under condemnation, and must repent and do his first works, or be lost (Ibid., p. 124).

OBEDIENCE -- That which the precept demands must be possible to the subject. That which demands a natural impossibility cannot be moral law. To talk of inability to obey moral law is to talk nonsense (Ibid., p. 2).

ENTIRE SANCTIFICATION -- It is self-evident, that entire obedience to God's law is possible on the ground of natural ability. To deny this, is to deny that a man is able to do as well as he can. The very language of the law is such as to level its claims to the capacity of the subject, however great or small that capacity may be.

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength." Here then it is plain, that all the law demands, is the exercise of whatever strength we have, in the service of God. Now, as entire sanctification consists in perfect obedience to the law of God, and as the law requires nothing more than the right use of whatever strength we have, it is, of course, forever settled, that a state of entire sanctification is attainable in this life, on the ground of natural ability (Ibid., p. 407).
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Re: Original Sin

Post by zone on Sat May 19, 2012 7:42 pm

FINNEY wrote:

In a revival, the Christian's heart is liable to get crusted over, and lose its relish for divine things; his unction and prevalence in prayer abate, and then he must be renewed again. It is impossible to keep him in such a state as not to do injury to the work, unless he passes through such a process every few days. I have never labored in revivals in company with any one who would keep in the work and be fit to manage revival continually, who did not pass through this process of breaking down as often as once in every two or three weeks (E.E. Shelhamer, Finney On Revival, p. 63).

JAMES BOYLE -- As a co-worker with Finney, Boyle wrote on December 25th, 1834:

Dear brother Finney, let us look over the fields where you and others have labored as revival ministers, and what is now their moral state? What was their condition within three months after we left them? I have visited and revisited many of these fields, and groaned in spirit to see the sad, frigid, carnal, contentious state into which the churches have fallen--and fallen very soon after our first departure from them (B.B. Warfield, Perfectionism, p. 26).

ASA MAHAN* -- wrote:

The people were left like a dead coal which could not be re-ignited; the pastors were shorn of all their spiritual power, and the evangelists--and I was personally acquainted with nearly all of them--I cannot recall a single man, brother Finney and father Nash excepted, who did not after a few years lose his unction, and become equally disqualified for the office of evangelist and that of pastor (Ibid., p. 27).

No individual, I believe, ever disciplined Christians so severely and with such intense and tireless patience as my brother Finney. Appalled at the backsliding which followed his revivals of 1831-32, his most earnest efforts were put forth to induce among believers permanence in the divine life. In accomplishing this he knew of but one method: absolute and fixed renunciation of sin, consecration to God, and purpose of obedience.

During his pastorate at Chatham Street Chapel in New York City, for example, he held for weeks in succession special meetings in his church for perfecting his work, and never were a class of poor creatures carried through a severer process of discipline than were these.

Years afterward, as their pastor informed me, those believers affirmed that they have never recovered from the internal weakness and exhaustion which had resulted from the terrible discipline through which Mr. Finney had carried them, and this was all the good that had resulted from his efforts.

When he came to Oberlin, and entered upon the duties of his professorship, he felt that God had given him a blessed opportunity to realize in perfection his ideal of a ministry for the churches. He had before him a mass of talented and promising theological students, who had implicit confidence in the wisdom of their teacher, and with equal sincerity would follow his instructions and admonitions.

He accordingly, for months in succession, gathered together those students at stated seasons, instructed them most carefully in regard to the nature of the renunciation of sin, consecration to Christ, and purpose of obedience, required of them.

Then, under his teachings and admonitions, they would renew their renunciations, consecrations and purpose of obedience, with all the intensity and fixedness of resolve of which their natures were capable. The result, in every case, was one and the same: not the new life, and joy and peace, and power that was anticipated, but groaning bondage under the law of sin and death.

At the commencement, and during the process of each meeting, their confessions and renunciations, their solemn consecrations and vows of obedience, were renewed, if possible, with fuller determination than ever before.

Each meeting, however, was closed with the same dirge song: "Look, how we grovel here below," or, "Where is the blessedness I knew, when first I saw the Lord?" or, "Return, O Holy Dove, return." And as they went out, not their songs of joy and gladness were heard, but their groans became more and more terribly audible (Autobiography, pp. 244,245).

http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/charlesfinney.htm

........

*ASA MAHAN

Asa Mahan graduated from Hamilton College in 1824, and from Andover Theological Seminary in 1827. On November 10, 1829, he was ordained pastor of the Congregational church in Pittsford, New York, and in 1831 he was called to the pastorate of a Presbyterian church in Cincinnati, Ohio, named Lane Seminary. He accepted the presidency of the newly founded Oberlin College in Oberlin, Ohio, in 1835, simultaneously serving as the chair of intellectual and moral philosophy and a professor of theology. Mahan's liberal views towards abolitionism and anti-slavery greatly influenced the philosophy of the newly-founded college; likewise, only two years after its founding, the school began admitting students of all races, becoming the first college in the United States to do so.[1]

The faculty of Oberlin College quarreled frequently with the highly religious Mahan, and eventually the faculty voted unanimously to relieve him of his position as president. In his place, famed abolitionist and preacher Charles Finney was made president of Oberlin College. Heartbroken, Mahan moved to Cleveland, Ohio and participated in the founding of Cleveland University, located in the Tremont District of the city, where he was chosen president of the school and also professor of mental and moral philosophy. However, the school had trouble attracting students and went bankrupt after only a few years, and Mahan was forced out.[2]

Mahan was an active advocate of the religious view known as Christian Perfection, and published Scripture Doctrine of Christian Perfection by Asa Mahan on the subject. His other works include System of Intellectual Philosophy, The Doctrine of the Will, The True Believer: his Character, Duties, and Privileges, The Science of Moral Philosophy, Election and the Influence of the Holy Spirit, Modern Mysteries Explained and Exposed, The Science of Logic, Science of Natural Theology, Theism and Anti-Theism in their relations to Science, The Phenomena of Spiritualism scientifically Explained and Exposed, Critical History of the late American War, A System of Mental Philosophy, Critical History of Philosophy, Out of Darkness Into Light and "Misunderstood Texts of Scripture".
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Re: Original Sin

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