LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

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LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

Post by PneumaPsucheSoma on Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:21 pm

Kabbalah and String Theory
http://www.inner.org/string/string.htm

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Re: LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

Post by PneumaPsucheSoma on Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:23 pm

Antichrist Conspiracy
http://antichristconspiracy.com/index.htm

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Re: LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

Post by PneumaPsucheSoma on Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:24 pm

Talmud Blasphemy
http://www.talmudblasphemy.com/talmud-children.htm

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Re: LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

Post by zone on Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:29 pm

oooohhh....i love planning.
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Re: LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

Post by Strangelove on Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:41 pm

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:Talmud Blasphemy
http://www.talmudblasphemy.com/talmud-children.htm

This is originally from come and hear:

http://www.come-and-hear.com/editor/america_2.html

....

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Re: LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

Post by PneumaPsucheSoma on Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:03 pm

A modern Kabbalah overview

http://www.israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/KABBALAH.htm

...


Last edited by PneumaPsucheSoma on Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:17 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

Post by PneumaPsucheSoma on Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:16 am

Assorted Talmud and personal quotes...

http://www.infotextmanuscripts.org/goy_pries_8.html

...

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Re: LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

Post by PneumaPsucheSoma on Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:53 am

Edomite/Khazarian "Jews"

http://www.meguiar.addr.com/Freedman.htm

...

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Re: LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

Post by PneumaPsucheSoma on Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:20 am

Israelite "Heritage"

http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/edomandkhazars.htm

...

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Re: LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

Post by Strangelove on Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:14 pm

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:Israelite "Heritage"

http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/edomandkhazars.htm

...

yay....British Israel.. Neutral ..the black variety. disastrous.

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Re: LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

Post by Strangelove on Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:15 pm

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:Edomite/Khazarian "Jews"

http://www.meguiar.addr.com/Freedman.htm

...

Ben Freedman....what a hero.

EDIT: Watch out for that website though, its british israel too.


Last edited by Strangelove on Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

Post by PneumaPsucheSoma on Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:16 pm

Strangelove wrote:

yay....British Israel.. Neutral ..the black variety. disastrous.

LOL. I thought you'd especially enjoy that.

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Re: LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

Post by PneumaPsucheSoma on Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:33 am

Strangelove wrote:

Ben Freedman....what a hero.

EDIT: Watch out for that website though, its british israel too.

Yes, but a bit of a respite from Ah-nold Murray. The overlap is interesting.

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Re: LINKS for Eschaton Agenda Info

Post by zone on Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:10 pm



The Invention of the Jewish People


(Hebrew: מתי ואיך הומצא העם היהודי?‎, Matai ve’ech humtza ha’am hayehudi?, literally When and How was the Jewish People Invented?) is a study of the historiography of the Jewish people by Shlomo Sand, Professor of History at Tel Aviv University. It has generated a heated controversyAs a work of history


In a commentary published in Haaretz, Israel Bartal, dean of the humanities faculty of the Hebrew University, writes that Sand's claims about Zionist and contemporary Israeli historiography are baseless, calling the work "bizarre and incoherent," and that Sand's "…treatment of Jewish sources is embarrassing and humiliating."[15] According to Bartal, "No historian of the Jewish national movement has ever really believed that the origins of the Jews are ethnically and biologically 'pure'."

Bartal writes that Sand applies academically marginal positions to the entire body of Jewish historiography and, in doing so, "denies the existence of the central positions in Jewish historical scholarship." Sand, for example, does not mention the fact that, from 2000 onwards, a team of scholars from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem labored on the production of a three-volume study on the history of the Jews of Russia.[16] He adds that "the kind of political intervention Sand is talking about, namely, a deliberate program designed to make Israelis forget the true biological origins of the Jews of Poland and Russia or a directive for the promotion of the story of the Jews' exile from their homeland is pure fantasy."[15]

Zionist Historian Anita Shapira criticizes Sand for regularly "grab(bing) at the most unorthodox theory" in a field and then stretching it "to the outer limits of logic and beyond" during Sand's survey of three thousand years of history.[17] Shapira says that the Sand's political program makes the book an attempt to "drag history into a topical argument, and with the help of misrepresentations and half-truths to adapt it to the needs of a political discussion."[17]

A critic of the book has called it, in part, a recycled version of The Thirteenth Tribe, another book with a controversial thesis on the genesis of the Jewish people published in 1976 by Arthur Koestler. "'The Thirteenth Tribe' was received coolly by critics, and Mr. Sand's repackaging of its central argument has not fared much better," commented Evan R. Goldstein.[12] There is not enough known about the 13th century demography of Eastern European Jews to credibly make as bold a claim as Sand's.[12]

In response to criticism of the aspects of the book which deal with history, David Finkel wrote that the book's chapter on 'Mythistory' is "where Sand fully hits his stride. It is not so much Jewish history but rather historiography that's decisive, in other words the history of history, the ways in which and the purposes for which that history came to be written." Finkel argued that Bartal "dispute[d] little of Sands’ history but focuse[d] on his historiography", and suggested, "doesn’t all this precisely prove Sand’s point? The professional intellectuals, ...have no need for crude myths. Yet this does not prevent every Israeli government, right, center or 'left', through which many of these same intellectuals may rotate as ministers, advisors or spokespersons, from justifying land grabs, settlements and demolition of Palestinian homes all over 'Greater Jerusalem' under the banner of 'the eternal capital of the Jewish people.'" "[18]

Carlo Strenger regards Sand's book as "not a pure work of history". He has written in an opinion piece for Haaretz where he argued that "in fact, it has a clearly stated political agenda. ...It might come as a surprise to some who have not read the book that Sand's goal is to preserve Israel as a democracy with a Jewish character based on a Jewish majority."[19]

As an argument about Jewish identity

Writing in The New Republic, Hillel Halkin calls assertions made in the book "the exact opposite of the truth" and goes on to say that "Believing Jews throughout the ages have never doubted for a moment that they belonged to an am yisra'el, a people of Israel—nor, in modern times, have non-believing Jews with strong Jewish identities. It is precisely this that constitutes such an identity. Far from inventing Jewish peoplehood, Zionism was a modern re-conceptualization of it that was based on its long-standing prior existence."[20]

British-Jewish historian Simon Schama, reviewing the book in the Financial Times, argued that Sand misunderstands Jews in the diaspora, specifically, that he thinks that "the Khazars, the central Asian kingdom which, around the 10th century, converted to Judaism have been excised from the master narrative because of the embarrassing implication that present day Jews might be descended from Turkic converts."[21] Schama pointed out that, on the contrary, when he was a child, "the Khazars were known by every Jewish girl and boy in my neck of Golders Greenery and further flung parts of the diaspora, and celebrated rather than evaded."[21]

The uncritical assumption "that all Jews are descended lineally from the single racial stock of ancient Hebrews" is "a position that no one who has thought for a minute about the history of the Jews would dream of taking,"[21] Schama goes on, "Sand's sense of grievance against the myths on which the exclusively Jewish right to full Israeli immigration is grounded is one that many who want to see a more liberal and secular Israel wholeheartedly share. But his book prosecutes these aims through a sensationalist assertion that somehow, the truth about Jewish culture and history, especially the 'exile which never happened', has been suppressed in the interests of racially pure demands of Zionist orthodoxy. This, to put it mildly, is a stretch."[21] The review went on to make other criticisms of the book. Sand responded to Schama's critique on his website by summarising the methodology used: "one of the most effective techniques adopted to ridicule or marginalize one’s ideological opponents is to create a caricatured and extreme version of their thesis. Some Zionist historians have become past masters with such methods and Simon Schama seems to want to emulate them in his review of my book."[22]

British historian and author Sir Max Hastings, in his review for the Sunday Times, writes that Sand "rightly deplores the eagerness of fanatics to insist upon the historical truth of events convenient to modern politics, in defiance of evidence or probability... Yet Sand, whose title is foolishly provocative, displays a lack of compassion for the Jewish predicament." Hastings continues, stating that "It is possible to accept his view that there is no common genetic link either between the world's Jews or to the ancient tribes of Israel, while also trusting the evidence of one's own senses that there are remarkable common Jewish characteristics — indeed, a Jewish genius — that cannot be explained merely by religion." Hasting notes that "Sand produces some formidable arguments about what Jews may not be, but he fails to explain what it is they are." Hastings concludes that "His book serves notice on Zionist traditionalists: if an Israeli historian can display such plausible doubts about important aspects of the Israeli legend, any Arabs hostile to the state of Israel can exploit a fertile field indeed."[2]

As an argument about the position of "Jewish history" in Israeli universities


Some historians of Judaism have said that Sand is dealing with subjects about which he has no understanding and that he bases his book on work that he is incapable of reading in the original languages.[10] Most of the book deals with the question of where the Jews come from, rather than questions of modern Jewish nationalism and the — according to Sand — modern invention of the Jewish people."[10]

The problem with the teaching of history in Israel, Sand said, dates to a decision in the 1930s to separate history into two disciplines: general history and Jewish history. Jewish history was assumed to need its own field of study because Jewish experience was considered unique.

Sand admits that he is "a historian of France and Europe, and not of the ancient period…"[10] and that he has "been criticized in Israel for writing about Jewish history when European history is my specialty. But a book like this needed a historian who is familiar with the standard concepts of historical inquiry used by academia in the rest of the world."[9]

"There is no Jewish department of politics or sociology at the universities. Only history is taught this way, and it has allowed specialists in Jewish history to live in a very insular and conservative world where they are not touched by modern developments in historical research."[9]

Other reviews


Writing in The Financial Times, British historian Tony Judt commented, "Shlomo Sand has written a remarkable book. In cool, scholarly prose he has, quite simply, normalized Jewish history"[3]

More pointedly, British historian Eric Hobsbawm selected Sand's book as one of his "Books of the Year" for 2009: "Shlomo Sand's The Invention of the Jewish People (Verso) is both a welcome and, in the case of Israel, much needed exercise in the dismantling of nationalist historical myth and a plea for an Israel that belongs equally to all its inhabitants. Perhaps books combining passion and erudition don't change political situations, but if they did, this one would count as a landmark."[23]

In a similar vein, Israeli historian, Tom Segev, says Sand's book "is intended to promote the idea that Israel should be a 'state of all its citizens' – Jews, Arabs and others – in contrast to its declared identity as a 'Jewish and democratic' state."[11] Segev adds that the book is generally "well-written" and includes "numerous facts and insights that many Israelis will be astonished to read for the first time".[11]

DNA analysis


In June 2010, an article in Newsweek titled "The DNA Of Abraham's Children" addresses through genetic analysis the centuries-old assertion, which the article claims has been revived by the book, that modern European Jews are descended from Khazars, a Turkic group, and not from the Middle East: "The DNA has spoken: no."[5]

A New York Times article on the same studies notes they "refute the suggestion made last year by the historian Shlomo Sand in his book The Invention of the Jewish People that Jews have no common origin but are a miscellany of people in Europe and Central Asia who converted to Judaism at various times."[6] Michael Balter, reviewing the study in the journal Science, says the following:




… Shlomo Sand of Tel Aviv University in Israel argues in his book The Invention of the Jewish People, translated into English last year, that most modern Jews do not descend from the ancient Land of Israel but from groups that took on Jewish identities long afterward. Such notions, however, clash with several recent studies suggesting that Jewishness, including the Ashkenazi version, has deep genetic roots. In what its authors claim is the most comprehensive study thus far, a team led by geneticist Harry Ostrer of the New York University School of Medicine concludes today that all three Jewish groups—Middle Eastern, Sephardic, and Ashkenazi—share genomewide genetic markers that distinguish them from other worldwide populations.[4]
Ostrer said, "I would hope that these observations would put the idea that Jewishness is just a cultural construct to rest." However, geneticist Noah Rosenberg of the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, says that although the study "does not appear to support" the Khazar hypothesis, it "doesn't entirely eliminate it either."[4]

Shlomo Sand has contested the claim that his book has been contradicted by recent genetic research published in Nature journal and the American Journal of Human Genetics. In a new afterword for the paperback edition of The Invention of the Jewish People, Sand writes:


This attempt to justify Zionism through genetics is reminiscent of the procedures of late nineteenth-century anthropologists who very scientifically set out to discover the specific characteristics of Europeans. As of today, no study based on anonymous DNA samples has succeeded in identifying a genetic marker specific to Jews, and it is not likely that any study ever will. It is a bitter irony to see the descendants of Holocaust survivors set out to find a biological Jewish identity: Hitler would certainly have been very pleased! And it is all the more repulsive that this kind of research should be conducted in a state that has waged for years a declared policy of "Judaization of the country" in which even today a Jew is not allowed to marry a non-Jew.[24]
wiki

~

Believing Jews throughout the ages have never doubted for a moment that they belonged to an am yisra'el, a people of Israel—nor, in modern times, have non-believing Jews with strong Jewish identities

No historian of the Jewish national movement has ever really believed that the origins of the Jews are ethnically and biologically 'pure'

??

zionists can't even agree on the basics.
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