IS THERE A GOD?

Page 2 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:02 pm

unclefester wrote:

Speaking of which Oscar ;

Revelation 13:13 says this of the great deceiver;

And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.

Maybe this is what it's going to take for some to realize what truly lies ahead .... and that God is indeed who He has said He is and always will be in Jesus the Christ ? We're all going to be fools for something. Who or what are you going to be a fool for ?

so true Fester.

as you know, Jesus Himself said the deception would be so intense and so severe, even His own people would be deceived (the greek indicates it is not possible for them to be deceived, the obvious reason would be due to the protection and sealing by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth).

Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible.

something else that Christians know (or should anyway:), is that right in the eschaton, but before the Second Advent it appears that God will sent a judgment on those with hardened hearts who didn't really care about the Truth.

this judgment is horrifying, as it appears to be permanent, unto damnation. waiting to "see how it unfolds" before "making up my mind" may not be a good idea.

those who scoff are really walking on thin ice, by the looks of Paul's inspired writing here:

2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
avatar
zone
Mod
Mod

Posts : 3653
Gender : Female Location : In Christ
Join date : 2011-01-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by unclefester on Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:05 pm

zone wrote:

so true Fester.

as you know, Jesus Himself said the deception would be so intense and so severe, even His own people would be deceived (the greek indicates it is not possible for them to be deceived, the obvious reason would be due to the protection and sealing by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth).

Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible.

something else that Christians know (or should anyway:), is that right in the eschaton, but before the Second Advent it appears that God will sent a judgment on those with hardened hearts who didn't really care about the Truth.

this judgment is horrifying, as it appears to be permanent, unto damnation. waiting to "see how it unfolds" before "making up my mind" may not be a good idea.

those who scoff are really walking on thin ice, by the looks of Paul's inspired writing here:

2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

Give Jesus a chance. He is either everything He said He was or He isn't. If Christ taking our sins upon Himself thru the cross doesn't show His immeasurable love towards us, then I honestly don't know what could. Give Jesus a chance Oscar. That's His only request of you.
avatar
unclefester

Posts : 92
Gender : Male Join date : 2011-04-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:12 am

unclefester wrote:

Speaking of which Oscar ;

Revelation 13:13 says this of the great deceiver;

And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.

Maybe this is what it's going to take for some to realize what truly lies ahead .... and that God is indeed who He has said He is and always will be in Jesus the Christ ? We're all going to be fools for something. Who or what are you going to be a fool for ?

maybe that is what it will take...I dont deny that.
avatar
oscarkipling

Posts : 245
Join date : 2012-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:14 am

Strangelove wrote:
Atheism is the worst sin.

The chief commandment:

Deuteronomy 6:4-5 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: (5) And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.


I thought all sins, great and small all took you to the same place.
avatar
oscarkipling

Posts : 245
Join date : 2012-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:16 am

unclefester wrote:
Give Jesus a chance. He is either everything He said He was or He isn't. If Christ taking our sins upon Himself thru the cross doesn't show His immeasurable love towards us, then I honestly don't know what could. Give Jesus a chance Oscar. That's His only request of you.

I dont understand what you mean by giving Jesus a chance...give him a chance how, by doing what exactly?
avatar
oscarkipling

Posts : 245
Join date : 2012-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:03 am

oscarkipling wrote:

maybe that is what it will take...I dont deny that.
but scripture declares it'll be too late to "decide" at that point.
avatar
zone
Mod
Mod

Posts : 3653
Gender : Female Location : In Christ
Join date : 2011-01-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:04 am

oscarkipling wrote:

I thought all sins, great and small all took you to the same place.
they do. but rejecting ANY idea of God stops ANY seeking.
and places man at the pinnacle.
but...this is our fallen condition.
avatar
zone
Mod
Mod

Posts : 3653
Gender : Female Location : In Christ
Join date : 2011-01-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by PneumaPsucheSoma on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:17 am

Oscar...

Do you truly somehow believe nothing became something all by itself; and random chaos somehow found intricate order without such order being overwhelmingly displaced by the pervasive chaos that would necessarily result while producing such a miniscule scale of order? Wouldn't the ratio of random chaos propagation grossly exceed and eclipse the scale of order seen today? And where did all the chaos go? Wouldn't it be exponentially more prolific than the ensuing order?

How would defined order ever prevail over random chaos? Do you really find that tenable?

What IS your cosmological view?

PneumaPsucheSoma

Posts : 308
Join date : 2011-03-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:49 am

zone wrote:
but scripture declares it'll be too late to "decide" at that point.

right, and if that were the case then i'd be well and truly screwed.
avatar
oscarkipling

Posts : 245
Join date : 2012-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:53 am

zone wrote:
they do. but rejecting ANY idea of God stops ANY seeking.
and places man at the pinnacle.
but...this is our fallen condition.

well, again this is were I see a difference between not believing a proposition vs actively denying it as a possibility. of course we probably have differing views on what it is to be an atheist...so. you know.
avatar
oscarkipling

Posts : 245
Join date : 2012-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:16 am

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:Oscar...

Do you truly somehow believe nothing became something all by itself;

I dont know, but no its not a belief that I hold.

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:
and random chaos somehow found intricate order without such order being overwhelmingly displaced by the pervasive chaos that would necessarily result while producing such a miniscule scale of order?

Well, I'm not sure that this is an accurate portrayal of cosmology. I think that arguably, the universe is far less orderly than it was near the beginning...what could be more orderly than an entirely homogenous ball of energy.


PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:
Wouldn't the ratio of random chaos propagation grossly exceed and eclipse the scale of order seen today?

I'm not sure, I dont know what counts as order and what counts as chaos in your view. It could be said that inhomogeneities and energy inequities, are the very things that make life possible. Its the existence of a gradient that makes animation possible.



PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:
And where did all the chaos go?

I'd argue that the chaos is with us, within us, and we are it.

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:
Wouldn't it be exponentially more prolific than the ensuing order?
sure there does appear to be a direction, but i dont know why instantiations of order cant occur along the way to maximum disorder.

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:
How would defined order ever prevail over random chaos?
I'd say that it probably cant, at least not forever. To my knowledge there is no indication that any of the rare and beautiful arrangements of matter that we see to day will survive forever. Eventually it appear that it will all succumb, things fall apart, wind down, and burn out.

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:
Do you really find that tenable?
no, I dont

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:
What IS your cosmological view?

Hmm, i dont quite understand the question...or i dont know what ou want specifically...could you elaborate?
avatar
oscarkipling

Posts : 245
Join date : 2012-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by PneumaPsucheSoma on Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:23 am

oscarkipling wrote:

I dont know, but no its not a belief that I hold.



Well, I'm not sure that this is an accurate portrayal of cosmology. I think that arguably, the universe is far less orderly than it was near the beginning...what could be more orderly than an entirely homogenous ball of energy.




I'm not sure, I dont know what counts as order and what counts as chaos in your view. It could be said that inhomogeneities and energy inequities, are the very things that make life possible. Its the existence of a gradient that makes animation possible.





I'd argue that the chaos is with us, within us, and we are it.


sure there does appear to be a direction, but i dont know why instantiations of order cant occur along the way to maximum disorder.


I'd say that it probably cant, at least not forever. To my knowledge there is no indication that any of the rare and beautiful arrangements of matter that we see to day will survive forever. Eventually it appear that it will all succumb, things fall apart, wind down, and burn out.


no, I dont



Hmm, i dont quite understand the question...or i dont know what ou want specifically...could you elaborate?

I guess it condenses to... how did the first something come from nothing, whatever that sonething was? And how could whatever that something is ultimately randomly become all there is today?

What is your view of prime origin?

PneumaPsucheSoma

Posts : 308
Join date : 2011-03-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:00 am

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:
I guess it condenses to... how did the first something come from nothing, whatever that sonething was?

I dont know how it happened, nor do I know that there was ever nothing.

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:
And how could whatever that something is ultimately randomly become all there is today?
well, once you have the something, I tend to agree with mainstream science on most issues of how things developed.

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:
What is your view of prime origin?
I cant say that i really have one, its something that I dont know and i am unaware of any well evidenced arguments that explain it.
avatar
oscarkipling

Posts : 245
Join date : 2012-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:17 pm

oscarkipling wrote:
well, again this is were I see a difference between not believing a proposition vs actively denying it as a possibility. of course we probably have differing views on what it is to be an atheist...so. you know.

LOL.
huh?

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2][3] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3][4][5] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[6][7] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[7][8]

wiki
avatar
zone
Mod
Mod

Posts : 3653
Gender : Female Location : In Christ
Join date : 2011-01-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:31 pm

oscarkipling wrote:
I'm not sure, I dont know what counts as order and what counts as chaos in your view. It could be said that inhomogeneities and energy inequities, are the very things that make life possible. Its the existence of a gradient that makes animation possible.

oh oscar.
serious? lol.

if we're trying to discuss this from a purely 'scientific' (*cough*) base.....information (DNA etc) makes life possible.

evolution says : time + dead matter + energy = life << impossible and ridiculous.

INFORMATION INPUT is required for life.

btw: you said previously you wouldn't judge old Darwin et al's theories based upon their persons. really?

know much about the Huxleys and the Darwins? know what they really believe(d)

even though their theories are passe and laughable, we now have a slightly more 'sophisticated' version....bacteria or cellular "life" 'seeding' our planet from way out there in the cosmos eons and eons ago.

which was the plan all along.

the question remains:

where did the 'life' that seeded our planet come from?

tsk. total rubbish.

Romans 1
God’s Wrath Against Mankind

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

~

even people who profess to be atheists KNOW there is a Creator, they CHOOSE to supress that knowledge.

that included all of us at one time.

BUT - He has provided a way to be both JUST and MERCIFUL. He has done it Himself, and can declare the unjust JUSTIFIED, by what Christ has done.

but, as we have seen, men HATE the idea. the Cross is foolishness to them.

unless....God is drawing (the greek is like dragging/pulling) them to Christ to be saved. one will RECEIVE a love of the truth (no matter the cost....peer pressure/ridicule/scoffing/persecution, etc).

oscarkipling wrote:
It could be said that inhomogeneities and energy inequities, are the very things that make life possible. Its the existence of a gradient that makes animation possible.

i'd love to see this expanded on.
can you provide an example of this?
avatar
zone
Mod
Mod

Posts : 3653
Gender : Female Location : In Christ
Join date : 2011-01-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:40 pm

oscarkipling wrote:

right, and if that were the case then i'd be well and truly screwed.

yes. but you'd be well and truly in trouble the instant after you draw your last breath. no need to wait til the end of the eschaton.

no second chances.

Christ died for sinners (you and me) and was raised for our justification (not guilty - full aquittal). its really a no-brainer.
avatar
zone
Mod
Mod

Posts : 3653
Gender : Female Location : In Christ
Join date : 2011-01-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:22 pm

zone wrote:
oh oscar.
serious? lol.

if we're trying to discuss this from a purely 'scientific' (*cough*) base.....information (DNA etc) makes life possible.

sure, I can agree that information is fundamental to life, but information in essense is heterogeneity. for example, imagine a flat white plane perfectly smooth and exactly the same everywhere. It is devoid of information, but if I were to draw a black line segment somewhere on that plane, then we have information, we have a dichotomy, line and not line. Introduce heterogeneity and you introduce information.

zone wrote:
evolution says : time + dead matter + energy = life << impossible and ridiculous.

no it doesn't, you're talking about abiogenesis, which is a family of theories, but evolution talks about what happens once there is already replicating organisms.

zone wrote:
INFORMATION INPUT is required for life.

hmm, i suppose i could agree with this.

zone wrote:
btw: you said previously you wouldn't judge old Darwin et al's theories based upon their persons. really?

know much about the Huxleys and the Darwins? know what they really believe(d)

no, not much...then again I dont know if we consider "much" as the same amount.

zone wrote:
even though their theories are passe and laughable, we now have a slightly more 'sophisticated' version....bacteria or cellular "life" 'seeding' our planet from way out there in the cosmos eons and eons ago.
which was the plan all along.

the question remains:
where did the 'life' that seeded our planet come from?
tsk. total rubbish.

Well, panspermia is an idea bandied about, but I wouldn't really say that its a development of the theory of evolution. I would say that most evolutionary biologists would insist that if life were seeded on this planet, then the seeders themselves had evolved somewhere else. It would be total rubbish for anyone to take the panspemia idea as a final answer...or imo an answer at all as its not nearly anything i would call well evidenced.



zone wrote:
even people who profess to be atheists KNOW there is a Creator, they CHOOSE to supress that knowledge.

that included all of us at one time.

BUT - He has provided a way to be both JUST and MERCIFUL. He has done it Himself, and can declare the unjust JUSTIFIED, by what Christ has done.

but, as we have seen, men HATE the idea. the Cross is foolishness to them.

unless....God is drawing (the greek is like dragging/pulling) them to Christ to be saved. one will RECEIVE a love of the truth (no matter the cost....peer pressure/ridicule/scoffing/persecution, etc).

well, okay

zone wrote:
It could be said that inhomogeneities and energy inequities, are the very things that make life possible. Its the existence of a gradient that makes animation possible.

i'd love to see this expanded on.
can you provide an example of this?[/quote]

well, one of my favorite examples is osmosis, its an extremely useful process, that is built entirely on the process of inequity. That is a difference in potential. Capillary action as well, is another one of those inequities. Or on a macro level, walking, a series of controlled falls, managing the potentials, the tug of gravity in order to locomote....stuff like that, i mean we can talk about it more if you like.
avatar
oscarkipling

Posts : 245
Join date : 2012-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:23 pm

zone wrote:

yes. but you'd be well and truly in trouble the instant after you draw your last breath. no need to wait til the end of the eschaton.

no second chances.

Christ died for sinners (you and me) and was raised for our justification (not guilty - full aquittal). its really a no-brainer.

well, yeah if i could become a believer on the strength of the potential downside then its a no brainer.
avatar
oscarkipling

Posts : 245
Join date : 2012-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:44 pm

pssst. oscar: a presumably intelligent being with a purpose for whipping out that pen drew the line and injected the information.

sigh...are we playing a game? or do you really not believe in God?


where'd the replicating organisms (life) come from?

if you can not address this without philosophy and imgaination, i don't have much more to say.

is there a Creator oscar? yes or no?


oscarkipling wrote:
well, one of my favorite examples is osmosis, its an extremely useful process, that is built entirely on the process of inequity. That is a difference in potential. Capillary action as well, is another one of those inequities. Or on a macro level, walking, a series of controlled falls, managing the potentials, the tug of gravity in order to locomote....stuff like that, i mean we can talk about it more if you like.

nah. heard it all before.

many people have wasted their lives trying to dispense with God. really is such a waste.

where'd the first life forms come from oscar?

what happens to your intellect and person when your body dies?

ttyl.
avatar
zone
Mod
Mod

Posts : 3653
Gender : Female Location : In Christ
Join date : 2011-01-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:46 pm

oscarkipling wrote:

well, yeah if i could become a believer on the strength of the potential downside then its a no brainer.

not a bad idea to recognize that there's a Holy and Clean Creator Who doesn't like sin and has said He will deal with.

starting from a negative is okay (recognizing you're a sinner who has offended the One who created you is a good place).
avatar
zone
Mod
Mod

Posts : 3653
Gender : Female Location : In Christ
Join date : 2011-01-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:17 pm

zone wrote:pssst. oscar: a presumably intelligent being with a purpose for whipping out that pen drew the line and injected the information.

yes, I happen to be intelligent, but heterogeneity doesn't require it in principle...so neither does information in principle.

zone wrote:
sigh...are we playing a game? or do you really not believe in God?

a game, I dont understand...I dont believe in any Gods.

zone wrote:
where'd the replicating organisms (life) come from?

I dont know.

zone wrote:
if you can not address this without philosophy and imgaination, i don't have much more to say.

is there a Creator oscar? yes or no?

I dont know.


zone wrote:
nah. heard it all before.

many people have wasted their lives trying to dispense with God. really is such a waste.

I didn't intend , nor do I see how any of what I said could possibly dispense with God

zone wrote:
where'd the first life forms come from oscar?
I dont know.

zone wrote:
what happens to your intellect and person when your body dies?

ttyl.

It probably "dies" too, but again I dont know.
avatar
oscarkipling

Posts : 245
Join date : 2012-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:20 pm

zone wrote:
not a bad idea to recognize that there's a Holy and Clean Creator Who doesn't like sin and has said He will deal with.

I dont know that there is any creator to recognize.

zone wrote:
starting from a negative is okay (recognizing you're a sinner who has offended the One who created you is a good place).

well, as far as sin goes, I can admit that I have and still do things that are considered sins.
avatar
oscarkipling

Posts : 245
Join date : 2012-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by Strangelove on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:42 pm

How does it feel knowing so little oscar?

oscarkipling wrote:
zone wrote:
where'd the replicating organisms (life) come from?
I dont know.
zone wrote:
if you can not address this without philosophy and imgaination, i don't have much more to say.
is there a Creator oscar? yes or no?
I dont know.
zone wrote:
where'd the first life forms come from oscar?
I dont know.
zone wrote:
what happens to your intellect and person when your body dies?
ttyl.
It probably "dies" too, but again I dont know.

oscarkipling wrote:yes, I happen to be intelligent

oscarkipling wrote:yes, I happen to be intelligent

oscarkipling wrote:yes, I happen to be intelligent

_________________
"Gentlemen you cant fight in here, this is the War Room!"

Arrow IMPORTANT THREADS Arrow FORUM STATEMENT OF FAITH Arrow CHRISTIAN WILDERNESS BLOGSPOT

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
avatar
Strangelove
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3145
Age : 42
Gender : Male Location : Israel of God
Join date : 2011-01-31

View user profile http://christian-wilderness-blog.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by unclefester on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:48 pm

oscarkipling wrote:
I dont understand what you mean by giving Jesus a chance...give him a chance how, by doing what exactly?

By simply asking Him. In the quiet and alone. If He is in fact who and what He said he was and still is, ask Him to reveal this to you. His only stipulation is that you truly want to know. Do you ? If you knew even a glimpse of His love and compassion towards us. Zone is correct in stating ....."even people who profess to be atheists KNOW there is a Creator, they CHOOSE to suppress that knowledge". He waits for those who will knock on His door. If you do only this much Oscar, you will be called His own.
avatar
unclefester

Posts : 92
Gender : Male Join date : 2011-04-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:24 am

Strangelove wrote:How does it feel knowing so little oscar?

I guess it just feels normal to me.
avatar
oscarkipling

Posts : 245
Join date : 2012-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:24 am

unclefester wrote:

By simply asking Him. In the quiet and alone. If He is in fact who and what He said he was and still is, ask Him to reveal this to you. His only stipulation is that you truly want to know. Do you ? If you knew even a glimpse of His love and compassion towards us. Zone is correct in stating ....."even people who profess to be atheists KNOW there is a Creator, they CHOOSE to suppress that knowledge". He waits for those who will knock on His door. If you do only this much Oscar, you will be called His own.

i'll take this into consideration.
avatar
oscarkipling

Posts : 245
Join date : 2012-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by Strangelove on Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:06 am

oscarkipling wrote:I guess it just feels normal to me.

But you happen to be intelligent?

Didnt you learn the answers to those questions in school?

Didnt you retain that information? Or do you not believe what you were taught?

_________________
"Gentlemen you cant fight in here, this is the War Room!"

Arrow IMPORTANT THREADS Arrow FORUM STATEMENT OF FAITH Arrow CHRISTIAN WILDERNESS BLOGSPOT

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
avatar
Strangelove
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3145
Age : 42
Gender : Male Location : Israel of God
Join date : 2011-01-31

View user profile http://christian-wilderness-blog.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:00 am

unclefester wrote:

By simply asking Him. In the quiet and alone. If He is in fact who and what He said he was and still is, ask Him to reveal this to you. His only stipulation is that you truly want to know. Do you ? If you knew even a glimpse of His love and compassion towards us. Zone is correct in stating ....."even people who profess to be atheists KNOW there is a Creator, they CHOOSE to suppress that knowledge". He waits for those who will knock on His door. If you do only this much Oscar, you will be called His own.

amen Fes.



i like you very much, oscarkipling:)



Holy Writ declares that there is not one single righteous man, no, not even one.
not one of us is worthy to enter the coming age (eternity) and dwell with God, to walk and talk with Jesus....to live forever.

none. not a single one. if we're honest (and you have been, which is such a good thing oscar; that awareness) we already know we're unclean. very, very unclean. in fact our hearts are full of evil. we deserve destruction, eternal separation from the LORD.

what will the Creator of everything do, since He is not only all powerful, He is Just. which means He absolutely must according to His attributes, administer justice for our crimes.

even in our feeble fallen world, we all have a sense of 'justice': we don't think chronic criminals should be permitted to simply be pardoned over and over and return to society to cause more destruction again and again. even we, fallen though we are, attempt to seek justice and protection for the weak and victimized.

and though we fail dismally, we claim to believe justice should be 'blind' - no favoritism; no special deals for the powerful or rich.

but we also (still at least to some degree) believe in Mercy.

just in this little bit alone we should see that even though we are fallen creatures we still bear the image of God. in Latin the term for our fallen nature/will means roughly bent in on itself/distorted inwards.

~

the wages of sin is death: death of the body, and eternal death.

so, briefly, God will administer Justice for all crimes committed against Him (crimes against our neighbours and creation are first and foremost crimes against The LORD). though He is Good, and Merciful and he takes NO pleasure in the death of anyone......He has declared He will punish our crimes - He must because He is RIGHTEOUS.

there is only ONE thing that can extinguish the wrath you and others who do not believe (faith) have already abiding on you for your crimes, and turn that condemnation into reconciliation and peace with Him IN SPITE OF WHAT YOU HAVE DONE (and not done, when we ought to have)...[we were ALL in that dreadful condition once too oscar...but we by faith have been reconciled]

that is the once for all Substitutionary Death Jesus (Who is God Incarnate) suffered in our place.

He came into the world and lived a perfectly righteous life according to His Own Law - FLAWLESSLY, seamlessly, on our behalf. He was absolutely without any sin or offense to God whatsoever. spotless.

yet He sufered what we deserve, in our place. this is not hard to understand in human terms - many a parent would die in place of their children....even strangers will sacrifice themselves for another....

[this is a real problem for atheists: their conundrum with 'altruism']

But Jesus died for the WORST OF SINNERS - all sins can be forgiven because He was perfect and because God is Love.

God MADE HIM TO BE SIN, for us - in our place, and poured out His wrath on JESUS! so that we could be forgiven, and His righteous life is reckoned to our unrighteous account!

and the Work is His Alone, and is FINISHED.

we receive this forgiveness by faith - we take Him at His Word. He has done this for us, and those who will humble themselves admitting their sinfulness, their need for Mercy from Him will receive it - He has PROMISED.

oscar - there is nothing, simply nothing in this world that can give us the peace we receive when we come to believe in what Christ has done for us (even this belief/faith is a gift and empowered in us by the Holy Spirit, its not something we muster up ourselves - this is what Jesus was describing when He said being born or brought to life by the Spirit is like the wind....we don't know where it came from)

read this over carefully.

i really recommend the entire book of Romans, from start to finish. If you can read Romans with understanding (ask humbly for understanding), you will get it - understanding.

its all a GIFT oscar. He just wants you to RECEIVE it, with thanksgiving.

Romans 5
Peace and Joy


1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, wea have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And web rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but wec also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

http://niv.scripturetext.com/romans/5.htm

...

through His life and death, Jesus bought reconciliation with an offended God for us, while we were still hating Him.

the Resurrection is the sign or seal for all the world to know that God was fully satisfied and accepts and applies THE GREAT EXCHANGE for rebellious, dirty creatures, to make them clean and take them to God for eternity.

He does this, as only a Judge and LORD of all can do, by DECLARATION. the King makes the decree and it is so. then the Holy Spirit indwells the redeemed sinner, who is continually and consistently transformed into a 'new' creature, one loved and spirutally alive, being made Christ-like (in character and in heart) over his lifetime.

this is a clumsy explanation, but i hope you continue to read the Scriptures oscar, as God's Word, the Gospel (declaration of the Good News of what Christ has done) is the MEANS by which He has chosen to make alive and redeem men. they may be SAVED, by Grace (unmerited favor), THROUGH faith (a gift, the substantive 'channel' or lifeline by which we are united to Christ.

love you oscar.

peace and joy comes from knowing your sins are forgiven (PAID FOR), and God deems you clean and righteous and has a home for you in His Family, that age is coming soon oscar.
avatar
zone
Mod
Mod

Posts : 3653
Gender : Female Location : In Christ
Join date : 2011-01-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:37 pm

Strangelove wrote:
But you happen to be intelligent?

When I said this I meant it in the most general sense, not as some sort of brag.

Strangelove wrote:
Didnt you learn the answers to those questions in school?

Well, those questions still dont have definitive answers, at least not in any academic environment I've been a part of.


Strangelove wrote:
Didnt you retain that information?

Some of it.

Strangelove wrote:
Or do you not believe what you were taught?

I wasn't ever taught that those questions had conclusive answers
avatar
oscarkipling

Posts : 245
Join date : 2012-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by Strangelove on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:52 pm

oscarkipling wrote:I wasn't ever taught that those questions had conclusive answers

Big bang cosmogeny and macro evolution are taught as fact in schools.

_________________
"Gentlemen you cant fight in here, this is the War Room!"

Arrow IMPORTANT THREADS Arrow FORUM STATEMENT OF FAITH Arrow CHRISTIAN WILDERNESS BLOGSPOT

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
avatar
Strangelove
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3145
Age : 42
Gender : Male Location : Israel of God
Join date : 2011-01-31

View user profile http://christian-wilderness-blog.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum