IS THERE A GOD?

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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:50 pm

oscarkipling wrote:you can note that there are fairly old species of frogs that haven't changed much in many millions of years, living with or near other frogs that are fairly new models.

lol.

which species of frog is millions of years old and which one is new?
and how do we know that?Rolling Eyes


come on oscar.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:55 pm

oscarkipling wrote:
there actually are not females in every species, but its true that most species do have males and females. its unclear exactly how or why sexual reproduction developed, but once it did develop, the dichotomy was passed on to offspring, so the M/F way of life was inherited. There are still organisms that reproduce asexually, but it appears that sexual reproduction had advantages that made it quite popular in biology.

you got NADA.

zippo.

Genesis 1:12
The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 5:2
He created them male and female
, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created.



so randomly, suddenly a FEMALE appears (or takes another random billion years to evolve - lucky male who was kinda standing around for millions of years i reckon). and they have sex...presto! a brand new species 9 months later? LOLOLOL!

sigh.

i'm going to watch STORAGE WARS.

i like Barry.

ttyl.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:07 am

What must i do to be saved?



Acts 2
36Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

37Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

42And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.


Acts 8
Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch
26Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Rise and go toward the southd to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is a desert place. 27And he rose and went. And there was an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure. He had come to Jerusalem to worship 28and was returning, seated in his chariot, and he was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over and join this chariot.” 30So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. 32Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this:

“Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter
and like a lamb before its shearer is silent,
so he opens not his mouth.
33 In his humiliation justice was denied him.
Who can describe his generation?
For his life is taken away from the earth.”

34And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?” 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. 36And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?”e 38And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing. 40But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through he preached the gospel to all the towns until he came to Caesarea.



Acts 16
The Conversion of Lydia
11So, setting sail from Troas, we made a direct voyage to Samothrace, and the following day to Neapolis, 12and from there to Philippi, which is a leading city of thed district of Macedonia and a Roman colony. We remained in this city some days. 13And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together. 14One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. 15And after she was baptized, and her household as well, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.



Acts 16
The Philippian Jailer Converted
25About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them, 26and suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken. And immediately all the doors were opened, and everyone’s bonds were unfastened. 27When the jailer woke and saw that the prison doors were open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. 28But Paul cried with a loud voice, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here.” 29And the jailerf called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas. 30Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family. 34Then he brought them up into his house and set food before them. And he rejoiced along with his entire household that he had believed in God.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:14 am

John 3
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God


John 5
“I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:17 am

Romans 8
Life Through the Spirit
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,a 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature,b God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.c And so he condemned sin in sinful man,d 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.

9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship.g And by him we cry, “Abba,h Father.” 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Future Glory

18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21thati the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will.

More Than Conquerors

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,j whok have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

31What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:

“For your sake we face death all day long;

we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”l

37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,m neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:21 am

Luke 18
The Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:44 am

The Heart of the Gospel
June 17, 2007|Romans 3:21-3|2007-06-17-PJ Listen|Download|Request CD

Justification by Faith Proved
July 01, 2007|Romans 4|2007-07-01-PJ Listen|Download|Request CD

http://www.swordandtrowel.org/Sermons.aspx?code=PJ-CDA21


if you're working in the garden on sunny day, play these MP3s.

perhaps you'll be surprised. perhaps you won't. never know til you consider it.


Last edited by zone on Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:23 pm

zone wrote:

lol.

which species of frog is millions of years old and which one is new?
and how do we know that?Rolling Eyes


come on oscar.

well thats a good question. one of the ways in which scientists determine if a species hasn evolved in a long time is by fossils, (this is a simplified version) If a frog, like the purple frog, looks the same (or very similar) as its very old fossil compatriots then it probably hasn't evolved much since those fossils originated, thats where the name living fossil comes from. There are also physiological traits that modern frogs have generally that ancient frogs did not have, that is traits that you dont generally see in modern frogs but were endemic to more ancient species. There are also bits of genetic code that can be tracked through time, that is to say there are pieces of gentic code that apper to have been inserted in some common ancestor, of frogs a a certain point in time, that may have spread through the population, that is now in all modern frogs of a certain lineage.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:31 pm

zone wrote:

you got NADA.

zippo.

Genesis 1:12
The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 5:2
He created them male and female
, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created.



so randomly, suddenly a FEMALE appears (or takes another random billion years to evolve - lucky male who was kinda standing around for millions of years i reckon). and they have sex...presto! a brand new species 9 months later? LOLOLOL!

sigh.

i'm going to watch STORAGE WARS.

i like Barry.

ttyl.


Well, i dont think it makes much sense to think of asexual species as being males or females, they are Asexual, that label doesn't fit there. there are also bacterial that for most intents and purposes reproduce sexually but there is still no reason to think of them as male and female as both "partners" can do everything that the other can. This also gives some insight into how sexual dimorphism may have evolved, it would have probably been a sort of co-evolution where each sex diverged over time, but at the same time.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:43 pm

oscarkipling wrote:
well thats a good question. one of the ways in which scientists determine if a species hasn evolved in a long time is by fossils, (this is a simplified version) If a frog, like the purple frog, looks the same (or very similar) as its very old fossil compatriots then it probably hasn't evolved much since those fossils originated, thats where the name living fossil comes from. There are also physiological traits that modern frogs have generally that ancient frogs did not have, that is traits that you dont generally see in modern frogs but were endemic to more ancient species. There are also bits of genetic code that can be tracked through time, that is to say there are pieces of gentic code that apper to have been inserted in some common ancestor, of frogs a a certain point in time, that may have spread through the population, that is now in all modern frogs of a certain lineage.

oscar...
has a frog ever become anything other than a frog?
maybe some purple ones died off. big deal.

"that is to say there are pieces of genetic code that apper to have been inserted in some common ancestor, of frogs"

ho hum...wherez the evolution part osc?

i want to see the frog that is walking upright.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:50 pm

oscarkipling wrote: This also gives some insight into how sexual dimorphism may have evolved, it would have probably been a sort of co-evolution where each sex diverged over time, but at the same time.

what an AMAZING coincidence.

i wonder what the odds of that are....happening to all the species (forget the 'asexual' ones) at the same time....where are the asexual tigers? or their 'fossils'?

am i to believe sexual reproduction/procreation was a BETTER survival mechanism than self-replication or whatever rubbis...i mean theory the Darwinists thunk up? i doubt it.

hehehe.

yer funny oscar.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:29 pm

zone wrote:
oscar...
has a frog ever become anything other than a frog?
maybe some purple ones died off. big deal.

well, this isn't the question I was answering, you asked which frogs were old and which ones were new and how we could tell. as far as frogs evolving into other things, i must say off the top of my head I dont know if the frog lineage ever evolved into anything very dissimilar from frogs. But salamanders and frogs have a common ancestor, so there was an ancient amphibian, that diverged into frogs and salamanders.


zone wrote:
ho hum...wherez the evolution part osc?
i want to see the frog that is walking upright.

again evolution isn't working toward making everything walk on 2 legs. while walking on 2 legs provided humans with an advantage it might not be so advantageous for a frog. some scientists speculate that walking on 2 legs allow early hominids to see over tall grasses so that they could see predators coming, in a swamp having powerful leaping ability, and a body built for swimming is probably far more useful. While humans are wildly successful, there are other things that are equally successful, and evolutionarily speaking cost alot less, like bacteria. The question you are asking essentially boils down to why isn't every organism essentially the same, and its a good question. Animals adapt and evolve to take advantage of their environment or some niche in their environment (or at least that's a way to think about it). Even as a human I'm sure you can imagine some circumstances where having 4 legs or tentacles would actually be much better than 2 legs, or having wings would be better than arms. Animals are shaped by thier environments, and by each other (predation, competition, sexual selection), as you can imagine humanoid form isnt always going to be the best route.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:35 pm

zone wrote:
what an AMAZING coincidence.

i wonder what the odds of that are....happening to all the species (forget the 'asexual' ones) at the same time....where are the asexual tigers? or their 'fossils'?

well, it didn't happen to each species individually, while sexual dimorphism may have independently evolved in several lineages, once it did occur it was passed on to subsequent lineages, just like other stuff like eyes and ears.

zone wrote:
am i to believe sexual reproduction/procreation was a BETTER survival mechanism than self-replication or whatever rubbis...i mean theory the Darwinists thunk up? i doubt it.

hehehe.

yer funny oscar.

Well, when you say better, you are forgetting that there are very successful organisms that still reproduce asexually. So no, it wasn't necessarily better bar none, but it was another successful strategy that had advantages and disadvantages just like asexual reproduction.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by Strangelove on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:03 pm

oscarkipling wrote:there was an ancient amphibian, that diverged into frogs and salamanders.

Did that happen overnight? Leaving no evidence of the divergence?

....night oscar.

G'night Sister zone...love you.

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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:07 am

Strangelove wrote:

Did that happen overnight? Leaving no evidence of the divergence?


no, and no.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:27 pm

Here's the Creator telling us every hair on our heads is numbered, oscar:

Matthew 10
26“So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. 28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29Are not two sparrows sold for a pennyd? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. 30And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

~

evolutionists can't even explain hair...never mind an eye. lol

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n3/amazing-human-hair

...
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by Strangelove on Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:25 pm

Oscar, you never answered this one:

What are the other abiogenesis theories that are not fundamentally unfalsifiable or falsified?

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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:06 am

zone wrote:Here's the Creator telling us every hair on our heads is numbered, oscar:

Matthew 10
26“So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. 28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29Are not two sparrows sold for a pennyd? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. 30And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

~

evolutionists can't even explain hair...never mind an eye. lol

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n3/amazing-human-hair

...


I dont understand what you mean by "evolutionists can't even explain hair", in what wy does evolution fail to explain hair?
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:07 pm

oscar....billions/trillions/gazillions of years [time] can not 'explain' the wonders of life. hair is a perfect example.

you and i both know the information encoded in a single hair not only tells everything there is to know about who's hair it is [exactly], but the information tells that hair what to do and when to do it.

any truly logical person will conclude there is a Creator.

atheists are in a lot of trouble. the cult of man is a deadend road.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:54 pm

zone wrote:oscar....billions/trillions/gazillions of years [time] can not 'explain' the wonders of life. hair is a perfect example.

agreed simply stating a vast amount of time is not an explanation in this case.

zone wrote:
you and i both know the information encoded in a single hair not only tells everything there is to know about who's hair it is [exactly], but the information tells that hair what to do and when to do it.

any truly logical person will conclude there is a Creator.

I understand that you believe that one follows logically from the other, but i dont understand exactly why.

zone wrote:
atheists are in a lot of trouble. the cult of man is a deadend road.

fair enough.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:09 pm

oscarkipling wrote:

agreed simply stating a vast amount of time is not an explanation in this case.



I understand that you believe that one follows logically from the other, but i dont understand exactly why.



fair enough.

oscar:
lifeless matter + time + energy = what?

a whole bunch of time, a blazing sun and lifeless matter.

INFORMATION input is needed. right from the BEGINNING (Genesis).

please tell me where the information came from?
hint: LOGOS
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:31 pm

zone wrote:

oscar:
lifeless matter + time + energy = what?

a whole bunch of time, a blazing sun and lifeless matter.

INFORMATION input is needed. right from the BEGINNING (Genesis).

please tell me where the information came from?
hint: LOGOS

again I dont know whether or not abiogenesis occurred, but if it did occur, it probably occurred under slightly more complex conditions than simply matter+time+energy can convey. Information as far as I can tell is a naturally occurring phenomena, I cannot honestly tell that anything was needed to put information into the system.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:40 pm

oscarkipling wrote:
again I dont know whether or not abiogenesis occurred, but if it did occur, it probably occurred under slightly more complex conditions than simply matter+time+energy can convey. Information as far as I can tell is a naturally occurring phenomena, I cannot honestly tell that anything was needed to put information into the system.

wha? uh, ya its occurring NOW that its IN the 'system'.

scripture says God upholds all creation by the word of His power.

you're only alive and breathing because He's allowing it.

ok oscar. nothing needed for the incredibly complex information that makes the world what it is?....sorry: i can't take much of what you say seriously, no matter how nerdy it sounds.

denying God in spite of the evidence and being so unthankful is just awful.

all this LIFE just appeared? poof? nah.
anyways....the Bible describes the global tyranny bearing down on us, and i gotta post on it now for a bit. ttyl.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:43 pm

zone wrote:

wha? uh, ya its occurring NOW that its IN the 'system'.

scripture says God upholds all creation by the word of His power.

you're only alive and breathing because He's allowing it.

ok oscar. nothing needed for the incredibly complex information that makes the world what it is?....sorry: i can't take much of what you say seriously, no matter how nerdy it sounds.

denying God in spite of the evidence and being so unthankful is just awful.

all this LIFE just appeared? poof? nah.
anyways....the Bible describes the global tyranny bearing down on us, and i gotta post on it now for a bit. ttyl.

fair enough ttyl.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by Strangelove on Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:31 pm

Oscar....what would convince you there is a God?

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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by oscarkipling on Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:10 pm

Strangelove wrote:Oscar....what would convince you there is a God?

Well i've already told you, and you've given reasons why those things either wont happen, or why under circumstances where they would happen I would be unable to distinguish truth from illusion/delusion/deception.... so given the perimeters in which I must work, I am only able to imagine one rather ambiguous source of such a compelling evidence...that is to say that the only thing that could convince me that there is a God, is God. I have no idea what God might do or reveal to compel me to such a conclusion, but being God I imagine there are avenues open to such a being that I fail to imagine.
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by Strangelove on Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:16 pm

oscarkipling wrote:
Strangelove wrote:Oscar....what would convince you there is a God?

Well i've already told you, and you've given reasons why those things either wont happen, or why under circumstances where they would happen I would be unable to distinguish truth from illusion/delusion/deception.... so given the perimeters in which I must work, I am only able to imagine one rather ambiguous source of such a compelling evidence...that is to say that the only thing that could convince me that there is a God, is God. I have no idea what God might do or reveal to compel me to such a conclusion, but being God I imagine there are avenues open to such a being that I fail to imagine.

AMEN!

May He reveal it. I'm praying for you tonight O-man.

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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:26 pm

this prophecy was given c.539 BC

it came to pass EXACTLY as foretold....to the day.
course there's nothing saying you'll accept that. the jews don't. and Daniel was their prophet (but the fact some of them would believe - the disciples - but most would not was also foretold).

don't harden your heart Oscar....that didn't end well for them.

but there's lots of math and stuff to prove it's true so maybe when you get some time you could look at it...maybe do a statistical anaylsis of the ODDS that all that would happen exactly that way....

Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

exactly as foretold, Jesus fulfilled the Promises that go all the way back to the garden of Eden.

and, history confirms what scriptures declare - General (later Caesar) TITUS came with his roman soldiers and razed Jerusalem to the ground 40 years after Christ cursed it. and the death and destruction was nightmarish.

Clarke:Of all the writers I have consulted on this most noble prophecy, Dean Prideaux appears to me the most clear and satisfactory. I shall therefore follow his method in my explanation, and often borrow his words.

Seventy weeks are determined - The Jews had Sabbatic years, Leviticus 25:8, by which their years were divided into weeks of years, as in this important prophecy, each week containing seven years. The seventy weeks therefore here spoken of amount to four hundred and ninety years.

In Daniel 9:24 there are six events mentioned which should be the consequences of the incarnation of our Lord: -

I. To finish (לכלא lechalle, to restrain), the transgression which was effected by the preaching of the Gospel, and pouring out of the Holy Ghost among men.

II. To make an end of sins; rather ולהתם חטאות ulehathem chataoth, "to make an end of sin-offerings," which our Lord did when he offered his spotless soul and body on the cross once for all.

III. To make reconciliation (ולכפר ulechapper, "to make atonement or expiation") for iniquity; which he did by the once offering up of himself.
IV. To bring in everlasting righteousness, צדק עלמים tsedek olamim, that is, "the righteousness, or righteous One, of ages;" that person who had been the object of the faith of mankind, and the subject of the predictions of the prophets through all the ages of the world.
V. To seal up (ולחתם velachtom, "to finish or complete") the vision and prophecy; that is, to put an end to the necessity of any farther revelations, by completing the canon of Scripture, and fulfilling the prophecies which related to his person, sacrifice, and the glory that should follow.
VI. And to anoint the Most Holy, קדש קדשים kodesh kodashim, "the Holy of holies." משיח mashach, to anoint, (from which comes משיח mashiach, the Messiah, the anointed one), signifies in general, to consecrate or appoint to some special office. Here it means the consecration or appointment of our blessed Lord, the Holy One of Israel, to be the Prophet, Priest, and King of mankind.





The Arch of Titus




Colour relief of the South panel: "The Spoils of War", showing the triumphal procession




Detail from the Arch of Titus showing spoils from the Sack of Jerusalem


The Arch of Titus is a 1st-century honorific arch[1] located on the Via Sacra, Rome, just to the south-east of the Roman Forum. It was constructed in c.82 AD by the Roman Emperor Domitian shortly after the death of his older brother Titus to commemorate Titus' victories, including the Siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_of_Titus

...

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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

Post by zone on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:34 pm

here's some of what jewish (official Roman historian) recorded about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

http://www.bible.ca/pre-flavius-josephus-70AD-Mt24-fulfilled.htm

Jesus said stuff about what would happen:

Matthew 24:19
How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!

Josephus describes cannibalism and the theft of babies from their mother's arms...to be eaten.

Luke 19
39Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples!”

40“I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.”

41As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

it happened EXACTLY that way...
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Re: IS THERE A GOD?

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