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Post Millenialism

Post by Strangelove on Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:28 pm

What is it exactly?

Does it mean we're not waiting for the physical return of Christ? Sad

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Adstar on Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:10 am

Strangelove wrote:What is it exactly?

Does it mean we're not waiting for the physical return of Christ? Sad

Well i had to look it up because thats the first time i have seen the term. from what i read it seems to say that Jesus will not return untill after the 1000 year reign of ummm Jesus.. I cannot see how they can see this reading scriptures. Seems to be a weird teaching indeed.


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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Strangelove on Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:20 am

Adstar wrote:Well i had to look it up because thats the first time i have seen the term. from what i read it seems to say that Jesus will not return untill after the 1000 year reign of ummm Jesus.. I cannot see how they can see this reading scriptures. Seems to be a weird teaching indeed.


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Ya and I'm not even into the literal 1000 year reign....and I'm still confuzzled over post mil.

I'm kinda hovering around the Amillenial view at the moment. Totally open to learning tho.

Lucky this isn't basic doctrine or I'd be getting wafted around like a child in a toy boat. bounce

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by KingdomSeeker on Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:07 pm

Adstar wrote: it seems to say that Jesus will not return untill after the 1000 year reign of ummm Jesus..

Haha! ...yeah it seems kooky...they explain it.


Yeah...postmillenialists. Dont consider the 1000 year reign of Christ to be litteral...it just means A long time. And that Reign is through Christendom. According to them the World will get more and more Christian. The "Millenial" Kingdom will be through the Church and not Jesus.

Apparently there MAIN reason for interprating it in this way...is that They say, MOST of churches eschatology, is "Pesamistic" and prevent making longterm goals for the future.

So there MAIN objective is CHURCH reign. Jesus does everything now through his CHURCH.

Hmm...this sounds Familiar.

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:40 pm

[quote="Adstar"] It means we are not waiting for Jesus to come set up a kingdom, he did that already, and did it perfectly in accordance with the Scriptures and the will of the Father. Ummmmmm What do you think Jesus is doing today? Do you think Christ's physical presence is required for him to retain 'all power and authority' in heaven and earth?

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by reba on Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:07 am

KingdomSeeker wrote:

Haha! ...yeah it seems kooky...they explain it.


Yeah...postmillenialists. Dont consider the 1000 year reign of Christ to be litteral...it just means A long time. And that Reign is through Christendom. According to them the World will get more and more Christian. The "Millenial" Kingdom will be through the Church and not Jesus.

Apparently there MAIN reason for interprating it in this way...is that They say, MOST of churches eschatology, is "Pesamistic" and prevent making longterm goals for the future.

So there MAIN objective is CHURCH reign. Jesus does everything now through his CHURCH.

Hmm...this sounds Familiar.

Do you consider the 1000 year reign to be litteral 1000 years? Strong's says
"Plural of uncertain affinity"

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by reba on Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:35 am

<< ------Grandaughters art work!

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Adstar on Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:32 am

KingdomSeeker wrote:

Haha! ...yeah it seems kooky...they explain it.


Yeah...postmillenialists. Dont consider the 1000 year reign of Christ to be litteral...it just means A long time. And that Reign is through Christendom. According to them the World will get more and more Christian. The "Millenial" Kingdom will be through the Church and not Jesus.

Apparently there MAIN reason for interprating it in this way...is that They say, MOST of churches eschatology, is "Pesamistic" and prevent making longterm goals for the future.

So there MAIN objective is CHURCH reign. Jesus does everything now through his CHURCH.

Hmm...this sounds Familiar.


Ohhh Sounds like a support doctrine for kingdom theology, you know, the one
where Christian take over the world politically and militarily and establish
the Kingdom by their own efforts.

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Adstar on Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:43 am

[quote="Hitch"]

Jesus is the King of Kings of His Kingdom. At the present time that kingdom is
a kingdom of Spirit, of the Body of Christ that has been slowly been added to
and expanded since the time of Pentecost till today.

But yes i am waiting for a real physical return of the Messiah Jesus who will
establish direct control over all the kingdoms of this world (not just over
those who have accept His atonement) He will rule these people (not us His
followers) with an Iron Rod. The kingdom will exist in this phase for 1000
years and then the final judgement will come.

Jesus does have the power and the authority but He has allowed this time for
men to accept Him willingly and others to remain in rebellion. Just as God is
shown to allow rebellion because of his longsuffering.

It is easy to look around today and see that most of the people in this world
do not give Jesus a second thought. So while He has ultimate control. He does
not have everyone’s agreement.


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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Timotheos on Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:07 am

I like it. It dovetails right in with Jesus' next return being on the last day, the day of judgment.

Revelation 20
American Standard Version




1And I saw an angel (Jesus?) coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold (defeated Satan on the cross) on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3and cast him into the abyss, and shut it , and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded (Christians persecuted) for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ (the church reigns, from a certain perspective) a thousand (a really long time) years. 5The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. (Resurrection of the dead after the church age) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (The church age will be very long)
7And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison (trouble and persecution for the church increases just before the end), 8and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them. (Judgment and the second death) 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented (???) day and night for ever and ever.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him (Jesus rules) that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, (The judgment is death) even the lake of fire. 15And if any was not found written in the book of life, (Any who do not have eternal life in Christ) he was cast into the lake of fire. (He dies, cut off from the source of life)
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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:39 am

Adstar wrote:


Ohhh Sounds like a support doctrine for kingdom theology, you know, the one
where Christian take over the world politically and militarily and establish
the Kingdom by their own efforts.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Well if that your assessment of the Holy Spirit's work you need to repent. The kingdom that was prophecied is the kingdom Jesus announced at the begining of his ministry , it is without end and there is no other. It is advanced by the proclaimation of the Gospel while the Holy Spirit ministers on earth and Jesus is enthroned in heaven. Jesus told us plainly that is is better for us for him to be in heaven and the Spirit to work on the earth, this is the perfect system to spread the knowledge of God over the earth. It is contrary to our Lord's own personally spoken word to insist that he be on earth bodily to enlarge the kingdom . Jesus taught that the kingdom would grow along side the evil in history, right up to the last day, the harvest.


Last edited by Hitch on Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:29 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:28 am

I like it. It dovetails right in with Jesus' next return being on the last day, the day of judgment.
YUP.

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by KingdomSeeker on Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:35 am

reba wrote:

Do you consider the 1000 year reign to be litteral 1000 years? Strong's says
"Plural of uncertain affinity"

Reba...no offence sister...But I'm going to pass on answering directly.

If I Said Yes, you would turn it into an argument.

If I said No, you would then ask what my point is...an i don wanna esplain...
..If im mistaken please correct me.

Adstar wrote:

Ohhh Sounds like a support doctrine for kingdom theology, you know, the one
where Christian take over the world politically and militarily and establish
the Kingdom by their own efforts.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Yes. DT. It is Anti-christ. Its PRO temple. Which is what "Church" is.

The Eklesia are WE. The Church(congragation) is the Body. What they preach ...is Temple. And I dont worsip a God who dwells in a temple made with hands. They Want people to be activists. And Take the world from "secular humanists" ...But what they dont seem to get is that, If THEY think they can just do something...It seems as if They think we have to "Gain favour" with God by being "ACtive" and pursueing some sort of GOAL...that is NOT denying self...in turn that is SELF promoting...and IS in fact a type of humanism...so...You can NOT Recunstructure society!


...but ya know what..maybe thats just me...

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by reba on Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:02 am

Reba...no offence sister...But I'm going to pass on answering directly.

If I Said Yes, you would turn it into an argument.

If I said No, you would then ask what my point is...an i don wanna esplain...
..If im mistaken please correct me.


Have it your way ... that has to be the kindest 'ignore' i have ever read.... Smile

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:13 am

KingdomSeeker wrote:

Reba...no offence sister...But I'm going to pass on answering directly.

If I Said Yes, you would turn it into an argument.

If I said No, you would then ask what my point is...an i don wanna esplain...
..If im mistaken please correct me.



Yes. DT. It is Anti-christ. Its PRO temple. Which is what "Church" is.

The Eklesia are WE. The Church(congragation) is the Body. What they preach ...is Temple. And I dont worsip a God who dwells in a temple made with hands. They Want people to be activists. And Take the world from "secular humanists" ...But what they dont seem to get is that, If THEY think they can just do something...It seems as if They think we have to "Gain favour" with God by being "ACtive" and pursueing some sort of GOAL...that is NOT denying self...in turn that is SELF promoting...and IS in fact a type of humanism...so...You can NOT Recunstructure society!


...but ya know what..maybe thats just me...
You're right . The war of conquest was recorded to fill space on the scrolls. LMAO And Paul's thing about snatching souls from the kingdom of darkness,,, humanistic claptrap.

But you have a point, applying your impotent form of christianity will have no positive effect in history.

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by reba on Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:22 am

<-------- grandaughters art!

I am sorta post mill and i dont fall into what you have posted above... The Bibical description of His kingdom is found in Romans.

Kingdom
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Temple
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
antichrist
An antichrist according to scripture is one who does not believe Jesus has come in the flesh i certenly believe He has.

1Jn 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:37 am

Adstar wrote:


Ohhh Sounds like a support doctrine for kingdom theology, you know, the one
where Christian take over the world politically and militarily and establish
the Kingdom by their own efforts.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Ohhh Sounds like a support doctrine for kingdom theology, you know, the one
where Christian take over the world politically and militarily and establish
the Kingdom by their own efforts.

Ya know I'd love to see three or four quotes from respected teachers/authors that say this . I ve never heard anything like this promoted who can you quote that teaches this ?

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:29 am

KingdomSeeker wrote:
Yeah...postmillenialists. Dont consider the 1000 year reign of Christ to be litteral...it just means A long time. And that Reign is through Christendom. According to them the World will get more and more Christian. The "Millenial" Kingdom will be through the Church and not Jesus.

Apparently there MAIN reason for interprating it in this way...is that They say, MOST of churches eschatology, is "Pesamistic" and prevent making longterm goals for the future.

So there MAIN objective is CHURCH reign. Jesus does everything now through his CHURCH.

Hmm...this sounds Familiar.

Ya but hang on. I've never been into the literal millenial thingee. I believe Jesus is King now, not coming to be King. So a King must have a Kingdom. And we are living in it now. Now, does that mean I'm looking for Christians to take over the world in our Earthly lives? Heck no. That would be like trying to be 'of the world'. Which isn't a good idea at all.

Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:32 am

Hitch wrote:It means we are not waiting for Jesus to come set up a kingdom, he did that already, and did it perfectly in accordance with the Scriptures and the will of the Father. Ummmmmm What do you think Jesus is doing today? Do you think Christ's physical presence is required for him to retain 'all power and authority' in heaven and earth?
Hey Hitch! Glad you made it friend.

My question is.....is there a day of Judgement in the Post Mil. view?

Is there a last day?

Is there an age now...and then an age to come?

Thanks bud. Looking to learn about this endtimes view. bounce

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:34 am

Adstar wrote:Ohhh Sounds like a support doctrine for kingdom theology, you know, the one
where Christian take over the world politically and militarily and establish
the Kingdom by their own efforts.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
I dont think any intelligent Christian grounded in basic doctrine would be looking for any such thing.

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:36 am

Timotheos wrote:
I like it. It dovetails right in with Jesus' next return being on the last day, the day of judgment.

Are you post mil. too Timo?

Huh? Why are so many Christians I like into this endtimes view? There must be something to it....

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:07 am

Timotheos wrote:
(Resurrection of the dead after the church age)

Ok, you seem to be saying there is an end to the 'church age'.

So...what is the signal of the end if it's not the return of Christ?

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:10 am

Hitch wrote:Well if that your assessment of the Holy Spirit's work you need to repent. The kingdom that was prophecied is the kingdom Jesus announced at the begining of his ministry , it is without end and there is no other. It is advanced by the proclaimation of the Gospel while the Holy Spirit ministers on earth and Jesus is enthroned in heaven. Jesus told us plainly that is is better for us for him to be in heaven and the Spirit to work on the earth, this is the perfect system to spread the knowledge of God over the earth. It is contrary to our Lord's own personally spoken word to insist that he be on earth bodily to enlarge the kingdom . Jesus taught that the kingdom would grow along side the evil in history, right up to the last day, the harvest.

Ok so there is a physical 'last day'. Phew. Thats the day of judgement right? We will stand before Jesus then? Thats what we are looking forward to?

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Timotheos on Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:59 pm

I am currently loosely holding the amil position. It's fairly comfortable, but hitch's post is interesting.

I completely reject the idea of a "pretribulational rapture" ala the Left Behind series. This cannot work since Jesus said He will return on the last day. There is no time for a 7 year trib after the last day.

ETA, the signal for the end is Christ's return. We won't miss it!
I'll probly be buried by then, so a big clue for me will be that I get up out of my grave.
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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:34 pm

Timotheos wrote:I am currently loosely holding the amil position.

Right there with you Timbo. Neutral


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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Adstar on Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:46 pm

Hitch wrote: Well if that your assessment of the Holy Spirit's work you need to repent. The kingdom that was prophecied is the kingdom Jesus announced at the begining of his ministry , it is without end and there is no other. It is advanced by the proclaimation of the Gospel while the Holy Spirit ministers on earth and Jesus is enthroned in heaven. Jesus told us plainly that is is better for us for him to be in heaven and the Spirit to work on the earth, this is the perfect system to spread the knowledge of God over the earth. It is contrary to our Lord's own personally spoken word to insist that he be on earth bodily to enlarge the kingdom . Jesus taught that the kingdom would grow along side the evil in history, right up to the last day, the harvest.

Wooo there, I do not support kingdom theology. I was just commenting that kingdom theology and post millenialisim seem to be linked.


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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Adstar on Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:48 pm

Hitch wrote:You're right . The war of conquest was recorded to fill space on the scrolls. LMAO And Paul's thing about snatching souls from the kingdom of darkness,,, humanistic claptrap.

But you have a point, applying your impotent form of christianity will have no positive effect in history.

Do you believe Paul was inspired by God or not Hitch?


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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Adstar on Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:54 pm

Hitch wrote:
Ya know I'd love to see three or four quotes from respected teachers/authors that say this . I ve never heard anything like this promoted who can you quote that teaches this ?

No. This is the first time i have heard of Post Millenialism. So i don't even know someone who does preach it. I did know about kingdom theology though but again i was not very interested in who preached it because i saw it as false.



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.

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Adstar on Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:56 pm

Strangelove wrote:

Are you post mil. too Timo?

Huh? Why are so many Christians I like into this endtimes view? There must be something to it....

I havn't seen many people into this Post Millenialism. Most people i talk to a Preterists or Millenial.


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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:04 pm

Adstar wrote:
Strangelove wrote:

Are you post mil. too Timo?

Huh? Why are so many Christians I like into this endtimes view? There must be something to it....

I havn't seen many people into this Post Millenialism. Most people i talk to a Preterists or Millenial.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Thats very true good buddy. But that doesnt make those views correct.

I think we need to examine and thrash this one out.

We need to find valid reasons why Amil and post mil fail.

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Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
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