Post Millenialism

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Adstar on Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:12 pm

Seems to be some confusion here.

We are talking about 3 different theories and people are confusing two.

from what i have read Post Millenialism believes that Jesus will not return at
the battle of Armageddon to rule the world. That he will come back 1000 years
later at the final judgement then rule the New earth in the new Jerusalem.

Plain old AMillenialism or just Millenialism believes that Jesus will return to
earth at the battle of Armageddon and rule the earth for 1000 years before the
final judgement and then He will rule in the New Jerusalem for ever.

Preterisim believes that the 1000 years is symbolic for a long time and Jesus
has been ruling from heaven and we are actually living in the millennial
kingdom now. That the battle of Armageddon was s symbolic representation of
something that happened during the early church history and that the
tribulation happened back in the days of the Roman empire when Christians where
persecuted. For them when Constantine formed the catholic church then the
saints (catholics ) where then ruling the earth with the dead saints in heaven
and Jesus.


So 3 different theories. I do not believe in Preterisim or Post Millenialism i
lean towards Millenialism.


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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Adstar on Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:19 pm

Sorry everyone i have been looking up to find out exactly what is what and i find that the one that most describes my beliefs is called:

Premillennialism.
I will have to read up on it a bit to see if i agree with it all.

Amillennialism seems to be something quite different. So scatch what i said before about me being a supporter of Amillennialism.

Ohh My head is hurting now...

Ok update time: i am am what is called a (historic)Premillennialism person. They believe in a second coming rapture or post tribulation rapture.

I am not a (dispensational) Premillennialism person. they believe in the pretrib rapture thing.



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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:25 pm

LOLZ!

I've said if before and I'll say it again. Lucky this isn't basic doctrine.

I'm just as confused as you are mate.

I love Jesus thats all I know 4sho.

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by reba on Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:15 pm

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:18 pm

reba wrote:Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day

Basically meaning...Christs return...the resurrection...and the judgement are at the same time.

Right Reba?

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by reba on Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:40 pm

Right reba?


Those aint my words Wink Those are His Words you ask Him if He is right? Shocked

To change my thoughts on those verses i would have to be showen some verses as simple and direct as they are with a different view.

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by zone on Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:02 pm

another way to look at this is:
BABYLONIN JUDAISM teaches a 1,000 year "utopia" (for the jews - they being their own messiah) ruling over "the nations"....total slavery for the goyim under the rule of the Synagogue of Satan. we have seen glimpses of this in action in the form of COMMUNISM. Marx and Engle et al were from rabbinic families.

their boy Scofield, and the dispensationalists (Daughters laboring for their Mother) have duped Christians into believing different versions of this.

familiarity with the teachings of the Talmud at this point is pretty important folks.
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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:06 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Hey Hitch! Glad you made it friend.
Thanx. Looks good so far cyclops


My question is.....is there a day of Judgement in the Post Mil. view?
Reba already addressed that one


Is there a last day?
The term 'last day' appears in only two books of scripture and is spoken only by Martha and Christ and always in direct reference to the resurrection. Its hard to imagine a clearer way to illustrate the resurrection as the transition from history to eternity.


Is there an age now...and then an age to come?
No, there is eternity to come.


Thanks bud. Looking to learn about this endtimes view. bounce
There is a serious problem with the alternative (pre-mil) views that is much greater than a difference in what we expect to happen near 'the end'. The DF view with its return to judaism is the worst, but even the historic pre-mill view requires some sort of alteration in basic christian soteriology. Some sort of second chance after the resurrection and that is contrary to the truth.


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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by zone on Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:09 pm

Hitch wrote:There is a serious problem with the alternative (pre-mil) views that is much greater than a difference in what we expect to happen near 'the end'. The DF view with its return to judaism is the worst, but even the historic pre-mill view requires some sort of alteration in basic christian soteriology. Some sort of second chance after the resurrection and that is contrary to the truth.
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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by KingdomSeeker on Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:45 pm

Strangelove wrote:quote]

Ya but hang on. I've never been into the literal millenial thingee. I believe Jesus is King now, not coming to be King. So a King must have a Kingdom. And we are living in it now. Now, does that mean I'm looking for Christians to take over the world in our Earthly lives? Heck no. That would be like trying to be 'of the world'. Which isn't a good idea at all.

Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


It Just seems to me Doc, that The more im reading...and the more that this dominion theology pops up. And the MORE I see "Christians" trying to "Take back" things...(like the world or even AMERICA for that matter was EVER christian!?) is just a little suspicious. Followers of Christ are supposed to be Meek. Servants. LEAST. Jesus' Emphasis was being UNDER, yet still preaching the Gospel. NOT being OVER anyone...the BEST way to Advance the Kingdom?...Prayer, Gospel, Prayer. That way GOD elads the person, and not them leading themselves. We are not OF this World...so why this emphasis of taking it over for Jesus? Preach the Gospel? YES! of Course! But that has nothing to do with a political, and social take over. "Its so hard to be a Christian in this World the way it is...SO im going to MAKE THE WORLD CHRISTIAN!" ...I dont beleve that was Jesus' Idea...Just becasue the gospel is preachd all over the world doesnt mean that it should be forced into peoples mouths...The Bread that is comming down from heaven, is not forced...Jesus is not the babysitter that forces you to eat your beans!!(ok...maybe only i would giggle at that...A friend of mine had a bad childhood experience...)

Don't you think, that the word FEW was spoken for a reason. So EVEN if the Entire "kingdom" DOES become the "Kingdom of God"...That would be MANY right? that would end up being WORLD. ...its just sneaky...Constantine... If Humans whole goal is to take back the World for Christ...but they are IGNORING Jesus(by dissobeying his words...as well as, NOT seeking him in prayer...TONS...of Prayer) Then that is SELF. The very thing Jesus tells us to deny.

It just seems so very Wrong to me...Who ever said Denying Self was EASY? ...but who ever said it was no longer needed?

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by reba on Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:53 pm

Denying self? A true public servent is denying self. And it is not easy.

Didn't Christ win victory on the Cross you sound as if He was defeted.

I wonder how many Christians there are in the world... 2000 years ago there was but a dosen

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:09 pm

KingdomSeeker wrote:


It Just seems to me Doc, that The more im reading...and the more that this dominion theology pops up. And the MORE I see "Christians" trying to "Take back" things...(like the world or even AMERICA for that matter was EVER christian!?) is just a little suspicious. Followers of Christ are supposed to be Meek. Servants. LEAST. Jesus' Emphasis was being UNDER,
John 16:33
“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”



yet still preaching the Gospel. NOT being OVER anyone...the BEST way to Advance the Kingdom?...Prayer, Gospel, Prayer. That way GOD elads the person, and not them leading themselves. We are not OF this World...so why this emphasis of taking it over for Jesus?
ahhh maybe because it belongs to Him ???
Preach the Gospel? YES! of Course! But that has nothing to do with a political, and social take over.
I wonder is there any leadership position in which you would not prefer pagans?
"Its so hard to be a Christian in this World the way it is...SO im going to MAKE THE WORLD CHRISTIAN!" ...I dont beleve that was Jesus' Idea...Just becasue the gospel is preachd all over the world doesnt mean that it should be forced into peoples mouths...The Bread that is comming down from heaven, is not forced...Jesus is not the babysitter that forces you to eat your beans!!(ok...maybe only i would giggle at that...A friend of mine had a bad childhood experience...)
huh?


Don't you think, that the word FEW was spoken for a reason. So EVEN if the Entire "kingdom" DOES become the "Kingdom of God"...That would be MANY right? that would end up being WORLD. ...its just sneaky...Constantine... If Humans whole goal is to take back the World for Christ...but they are IGNORING Jesus(by dissobeying his words...as well as, NOT seeking him in prayer...TONS...of Prayer) Then that is SELF. The very thing Jesus tells us to deny.
These last two paragraphs are meaningless

It just seems so very Wrong to me...Who ever said Denying Self was EASY? ...but who ever said it was no longer needed?
Thats good because I certailny hope you never come close to any leadership position with such an outlook.

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:18 pm

Strangelove wrote:

Thats very true good buddy. But that doesnt make those views correct.

I think we need to examine and thrash this one out.

We need to find valid reasons why Amil and post mil fail.
It really simple. All that is required is for Christ to return before the last day. Prove this and you have no problems left.

heh heh

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:24 pm

Does anyone ever consider that part of our base ,as chrisitan believers ,is the historical account of the War of Conquest?

sheesh

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by KingdomSeeker on Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:30 am

Hitch wrote:John 16:33
“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” ahhh maybe because it belongs to Him ??? I wonder is there any leadership position in which you would not prefer pagans? huh? These last two paragraphs are meaningless Thats good because I certailny hope you never come close to any leadership position with such an outlook.




You are a very kind and sweet man. Suspect

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by zone on Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:34 am

hi hitch and reba.
if i am reading the posts correctly, and if i know my brother Rob's take on things, he's been totally misunderstood: he's speaking AGAINST the topic (Dominionism)
might be good to do a review.
zone


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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Adstar on Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:35 am

Oh to refine the difference even more between
the two different pre Millennialism’s

Historical Premillennialism does not support the concept of dispensations as
well as does not support pre trib rapture.

So Jews need to accept the Messiah Jesus as their Redeemer just like everyone
else.

I think i have explained it all in the other forum Strangelove.


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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by reba on Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:17 am

zone wrote:hi hitch and reba.
if i am reading the posts correctly, and if i know my brother Rob's take on things, he's been totally misunderstood: he's speaking AGAINST the topic (Dominionism)
might be good to do a review.
zone

So much of Scripture is written as if we are an army. Why? Are we to roll over and play dead. Is there any reason that comes to mind when ya' think about say the helmet of salvation the sword the whole armor? Armies accupy the winners of a war dont play dead. Christ won the victory ! correct? Why not christians in public office? How much better would our school system be if more teachers were christian.

I say thank you God You placed me in the USA i hope to be the best citizen i can be.... Being here that means i get involved i vote i speak my piece. Sure that is not the same for a christian in iraq. Each person need to be the best citizen he can be where ever God has placed him.

Heaven is my home my ending place that is where i will be What kind of a person will i be while on my road to Emmaus,

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by KingdomSeeker on Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:18 am

Ok lets try this over. Imma start fro mthe begining.

Hi Im Rob!! Its a pleasure to meet all of you, even you Hitch(ya big ol meany head)

Ok, I, like many of you, beleive that the comming one world religion is going to be based off of Talmudic/kabbalistic/freemason/judaism. Which IS the ancient babylon paganism. Its what Summer was destroyed for...etc..etc..Star of david...etc...Remphan...etc...Saturn...All abrahamic faiths...etc..the Organised church is slowly becomming Masonic...etc..etcc...Eastern religions are slowly taking over the children of God(well i guess they allways have) etc etc..Ok Followed that so far?

This Post was about Post-millenialism. Meaning that The "1000 year" Reign of Christ is going to be through the Church. Jesus will not literaly reign...it will be his church and THEY will set up the Kingdom(which if you have not noticed is Gaining popularity) Isnt that thought...that way of thinking, doesnt PRe-millenialism Go hand and hand with Dominion theology?

DT is postmillennial in its eschatology. It is believed that as a result of the reconstruction of society by Biblical principals, that the final aspect of the Kingdom of God will be established on earth. Christ cannot return until a certain amount of dominion is achieved by the church. It is believed that the curse will slowly be removed as the world is won over. Even disease and death will be all but eliminated before Christ returns to the earth;

How is that biblical?

If anything THAT sounds like what the Anti-chirst(whether he is an actual person or not, is not the point) would try to do. (hence my qualm that it was "anti-christ")


THAT was my point..and then of course(mainly becasue i feel strongly about it) I started talking about denying self(which aparently people dont like to talk about...then I guess people wont like me much...which makes me very happy Smile )

So Post-millinialism, is not only NOT biblical, its directly dissobedient to Jesus words. And it seems that followers of that Through are open to deception.

So i hope that clears up what i was saying. Now im done hogging up the thread. Jesus bless you all.

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:30 am

zone wrote:hi hitch and reba.
if i am reading the posts correctly, and if i know my brother Rob's take on things, he's been totally misunderstood: he's speaking AGAINST the topic (Dominionism)
might be good to do a review.
zone
Perhaps with effort he will learn better.


But you are invited to explain this;

Yes. DT. It is Anti-christ. Its PRO temple. Which is what "Church" is.

I have no idea what this is about.


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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:41 am

KingdomSeeker wrote:Ok lets try this over. Imma start fro mthe begining.

Hi Im Rob!! Its a pleasure to meet all of you, even you Hitch(ya big ol meany head)

Ok, I, like many of you, beleive that the comming one world religion is going to be based off of Talmudic/kabbalistic/freemason/judaism. Which IS the ancient babylon paganism. Its what Summer was destroyed for...etc..etc..Star of david...etc...Remphan...etc...Saturn...All abrahamic faiths...etc..the Organised church is slowly becomming Masonic...etc..etcc...Eastern religions are slowly taking over the children of God(well i guess they allways have) etc etc..Ok Followed that so far?

This Post was about Post-millenialism. Meaning that The "1000 year" Reign of Christ is going to be through the Church. Jesus will not literaly reign...it will be his church and THEY will set up the Kingdom(which if you have not noticed is Gaining popularity) Isnt that thought...that way of thinking, doesnt PRe-millenialism Go hand and hand with Dominion theology?
You must have ment to say post-millennialism


DT is postmillennial in its eschatology. It is believed that as a result of the reconstruction of society by Biblical principals, that the final aspect of the Kingdom of God will be established on earth. Christ cannot return until a certain amount of dominion is achieved by the church.
Please support this with quotes from teachers/authors
It is believed that the curse will slowly be removed as the world is won over. Even disease and death will be all but eliminated before Christ returns to the earth;

How is that biblical?
Isa 65


If anything THAT sounds like what the Anti-chirst(whether he is an actual person or not, is not the point) would try to do.
hmmm so in your view antichrist is behind the proclaimation and application of the Gospel; ahhh thats crazy.
(hence my qualm that it was "anti-christ")
I wonder do you think anything at all changed when Christ was resurrected or are all things as they were ?



THAT was my point..and then of course(mainly becasue i feel strongly about it) I started talking about denying self(which aparently people dont like to talk about...then I guess people wont like me much...which makes me very happy Smile )
which you selfishly applied to your ridiculous strawman argument

So Post-millinialism, is not only NOT biblical, its directly dissobedient to Jesus words. And it seems that followers of that Through are open to deception.
OK show me from the scripture Christ's return before the last day.


So i hope that clears up what i was saying. Now im done hogging up the thread. Jesus bless you all.
There wasnt any question in that regard excepting those two paragraphs already noted.


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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by KingdomSeeker on Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:56 am

...is everything a war with you Sir?

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:14 am

KingdomSeeker wrote:...is everything a war with you Sir?

Yes. DT. It is Anti-christ. Its PRO temple. Which is what "Church" is.

How dare you post something like this and then whine when you are challenged. Its pathetic.

You publicly denounce DT as antichrist and offer nor a single quote from any DT teacher/author in support. Dont you have any ethical standard?

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by KingdomSeeker on Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:31 am

Hitch wrote:

Yes. DT. It is Anti-christ. Its PRO temple. Which is what "Church" is.

How dare you post something like this and then whine when you are challenged. Its pathetic.

You publicly denounce DT as antichrist and offer nor a single quote from any DT teacher/author in support. Dont you have any ethical standard?


What was a "whine" Sir? I asked a question. thats it.


The Church is the body of Christ. The called out ones. Ekklesia.

"Church", going to a steaple house, has become going to the TEMPLE.

You dont see that? You dont see that go to a building to "worship"...is slowly pulling the church back under the Law. To to say that the WORLD needs to be made "Christian" and part of that coverstionis making everyone go to a steaple house(temple) ...is going BACKWARDS no? Maybe im not comming across the way i should...maybe you think im saying something that im not.

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:37 am

KingdomSeeker wrote:


What was a "whine" Sir? I asked a question. thats it.

KingdomSeeker wrote:...is everything a war with you Sir?






The Church is the body of Christ. The called out ones. Ekklesia.

"Church", going to a steaple house, has become going to the TEMPLE.

You dont see that? You dont see that go to a building to "worship"...is slowly pulling the church back under the Law. To to say that the WORLD needs to be made "Christian" and part of that coverstionis making everyone go to a steaple house(temple) ...is going BACKWARDS no? Maybe im not comming across the way i should
What you are doing is putting up staw
...maybe you think im saying something that im not.
You publicly denounce DT as antichrist and offer not a single quote from any DT teacher/author in support. Dont you have any ethical standard?

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by KingdomSeeker on Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:45 am

You publicly denounce DT as antichrist and offer not a single quote from any DT teacher/author in support.

Luke 17:21 "Neither shall they say, See here! or, see there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

The Kingdom of God is Spiritual. NOT physical.

Very Happy God bless you Sir. Have a Beautiful evening.

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:58 am

KingdomSeeker wrote:

Luke 17:21 "Neither shall they say, See here! or, see there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

The Kingdom of God is Spiritual. NOT physical.

Very Happy God bless you Sir. Have a Beautiful evening.

So you are implying that DT teaches the Kingdom is physical and thus DT is antichrist. Correct?

Something like this should be easy for you to support with quotes from authors/teachers in the DT school. LMAO

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by KingdomSeeker on Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:17 am

Dominion theology is predicated upon three basic beliefs: 1) Satan usurped man’s dominion over the earth through the temptation of Adam and Eve; 2) The Church is God’s instrument to take dominion back from Satan; 3) Jesus cannot or will not return until the Church has taken dominion by gaining control of the earth’s governmental and social institutions. [emphasis added]
Al Dager, Vengeance Is Ours: The Church In Dominion


Since 2001, the body of Christ has been in the Second Apostolic Age. The apostolic/prophetic government of the church is now in place. . . . [W]e began to build our base by locating and identifying with the intercessory prayer movements. This time, however, we feel that God wants us to start governmentally, connecting with the apostles of the region. God has already raised up for us a key apostle in one of the strategic nations of the Middle East, and other apostles are already coming on board. Once we have the apostles in place, we will then bring the intercessors and the prophets into the inner circle, and we will end up with the spiritual core we need to move ahead for retaking the dominion that is rightfully ours.

". . . The old days of missions are over, and we are now in a new day. . . ."

" . . . We need you with us as we launch out into these new territories with the apostolic/prophetic government of the church. We will depend heavily on workplace leaders, not just traditional church people."
[emphasis added]
C. Peter Wagner
According to Al Dager, in his book The World Christian Movement (Sword Pub., 2001),

"To the average Christian there is no distinction between evangelism and evangelization. But to the World Christian movement there is a distinction.

"Evangelism, of course, is a legitimate name and a legitimate endeavor. It is the work of believers to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ in order to bring souls into the Kingdom of God. True evangelism follows the spreading of the pure Gospel with the planting of churches and the discipling of believers that will guard the biblical truths and practices vital to sustaining a viable relationship between individual believers and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(actualy, "church planting" is also not scriptural.And Jesus makes it PERFECTLY clear what a disciple should do.)
"Evangelization is the term used by the global, ecumenical World Christian Movement to gain the support of churches throughout the world. It denotes the 'Christianizing' of all the world's 'people groups' by means of a work that combines social and political action as equal elements with the Gospel of Jesus Christ." (p. 25) [Emphases added]
So your going to tell me that is NOT Anti-Christ?
(my words, KS, in red)


KingdomSeeker

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Adstar on Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:46 am

KingdomSeeker wrote:Ok
lets try this over. Imma start fro mthe begining.

Hi Im Rob!! Its a pleasure to meet all of you, even you Hitch(ya big ol meany
head)

Ok, I, like many of you, beleive that the comming one world religion is going
to be based off of Talmudic/kabbalistic/freemason/judaism. Which IS the ancient
babylon paganism. Its what Summer was destroyed for...etc..etc..Star of
david...etc...Remphan...etc...Saturn...All abrahamic faiths...etc..the
Organised church is slowly becomming Masonic...etc..etcc...Eastern religions
are slowly taking over the children of God(well i guess they allways have) etc
etc..Ok Followed that so far?

This Post was about Post-millenialism. Meaning that The "1000 year"
Reign of Christ is going to be through the Church. Jesus will not literaly
reign...it will be his church and THEY will set up the Kingdom(which if you
have not noticed is Gaining popularity) Isnt that thought...that way of
thinking, doesnt PRe-millenialism Go hand and hand with Dominion theology?

No PRe-millenialism is not related to Domination theology. PRe-millenialism
teaches that Jesus will establish the 1000 years upon the day of His return at Armageddon.
Dominion theory states that followers of Jesus will establish the kingdom
through carnal struggle in taking over the world. Dominion theology is more
like what the muslims have with their doctrine on a global islamic state gained
through jihad.

DT is postmillennial in its eschatology.

Yes postmillennial fits in with it well but PRe-millenialism does not.


It is believed that as a result of the reconstruction of society
by Biblical principals, that the final aspect of the Kingdom of God will be
established on earth. Christ cannot return until a certain amount of dominion
is achieved by the church. It is believed that the curse will slowly be removed
as the world is won over. Even disease and death will be all but eliminated
before Christ returns to the earth;

How is that biblical?

I agree, it is not. It panders to the pride of man needing to justify themselves
to God and earn the Kingdom rather then it being a loving gift from God.


All Praise The Ancient OF Days

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Re: Post Millenialism

Post by Hitch on Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:04 am

KingdomSeeker wrote:Dominion theology is predicated upon three basic beliefs: 1) Satan usurped man’s dominion over the earth through the temptation of Adam and Eve; 2) The Church is God’s instrument to take dominion back from Satan; 3) Jesus cannot or will not return until the Church has taken dominion by gaining control of the earth’s governmental and social institutions. [emphasis added]
Certainly it would be horrible if say all the justices of the Supremem Court of the United States were devout christians in 1973, I mean 100s of millions of precious babies might not have been slaughtered
Al Dager, Vengeance Is Ours: The Church In Dominion


Since 2001, the body of Christ has been in the Second Apostolic Age. The apostolic/prophetic government of the church is now in place. . . . [W]e began to build our base by locating and identifying with the intercessory prayer movements. This time, however, we feel that God wants us to start governmentally, connecting with the apostles of the region. God has already raised up for us a key apostle in one of the strategic nations of the Middle East, and other apostles are already coming on board. Once we have the apostles in place, we will then bring the intercessors and the prophets into the inner circle, and we will end up with the spiritual core we need to move ahead for retaking the dominion that is rightfully ours.

". . . The old days of missions are over, and we are now in a new day. . . ."

" . . . We need you with us as we launch out into these new territories with the apostolic/prophetic government of the church. We will depend heavily on workplace leaders, not just traditional church people."
[emphasis added]
C. Peter Wagner
According to Al Dager, in his book The World Christian Movement (Sword Pub., 2001),

"To the average Christian there is no distinction between evangelism and evangelization. But to the World Christian movement there is a distinction.

"Evangelism, of course, is a legitimate name and a legitimate endeavor. It is the work of believers to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ in order to bring souls into the Kingdom of God. True evangelism follows the spreading of the pure Gospel with the planting of churches and the discipling of believers that will guard the biblical truths and practices vital to sustaining a viable relationship between individual believers and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(actualy, "church planting" is also not scriptural.And Jesus makes it PERFECTLY clear what a disciple should do.)
"Evangelization is the term used by the global, ecumenical World Christian Movement to gain the support of churches throughout the world. It denotes the 'Christianizing' of all the world's 'people groups' by means of a work that combines social and political action as equal elements with the Gospel of Jesus Christ." (p. 25) [Emphases added]
So your going to tell me that is NOT Anti-Christ?
(my words, KS, in red)



Fist off I've never heard of this guy. So your quotes are valid ,but I dont know who or anyone he speaks for.

Second ; Exactly what is antichrisitan in anything you posted? You emphasised social and political action; that could mean feeding starving children-social action, and calling for civil punishemensts that fit the crime, say prison and restitution for theft ratherthan execution ,-political action. Yes I will say there is nothing antichritian about that.


Third what qualfies Al Dager as spokesman, as antichristian ?

Hitch

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Re: Post Millenialism

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