Six Million

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:16 pm

“in order to put a stop to the epidemics, we were forced to burn the bodies of incalculable numbers of people who had been destroyed by disease. We were therefore forced to build crematoria, and on this account they are knotting a noose for us.”

- Heinrich Himmler, 1945 (As quoted by Reitlinger)

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:15 pm

“Between May 1942 and June 1944, almost none of the messages reaching the west had referred to Auschwitz as the destination of Jewish deportees, or as a killing centre. Nor had the name of Auschwitz made any impression on those who were building up what they believed to be an increasingly comprehensive picture of the fate of the Jews.”

- "Auschwitz and the Allies" by Martin Gilbert (official biographer of Sir Winston Churchill.) p. 340.

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:21 pm

[In 1943 the Roosevelt] Administration was reluctant to accept the reports of murder centers and discounted the idea of an organized attempt to liquidate the Jews. Roosevelt explained the deportations to Frankfurter; the deported Jews were simply being employed on the Soviet frontier to build fortifications.”

- Walter Laqueur, Jewish holocaust historian, p. 94. "The Terrible Secret" (1980)

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:11 pm



Dachau Museum 1998 with sign claiming that this room was never used as a gas chamber.

Why call it a gas chamber if it was was never used as a gas chamber??

Maybe it was a shower room?

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Re: Six Million

Post by PneumaPsucheSoma on Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:41 pm

Strangelove wrote:

Dachau Museum 1998 with sign claiming that this room was never used as a gas chamber.

Why call it a gas chamber if it was was never used as a gas chamber??

Maybe it was a shower room?

LOL. And I further contend they have totally misrepresented whether anyone can EVER know anything of the flatulence which may or may not have occurred in that location.

Hi Doc.

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:42 pm

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:LOL. And I further contend they have totally misrepresented whether anyone can EVER know anything of the flatulence which may or may not have occurred in that location.

Hi Doc.

Hi PPS.

That joke is in bad taste. I don't think this is a laughing matter.

Sorry.

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:44 pm

"The Holocaust was the murder of six million Jews, including two million children. Holocaust denial is a second murder of those same six million. First their lives were extinguished; then their deaths. A person who denies the Holocaust becomes part of the crime of the Holocaust itself."

- David Matas, Senior Counsel for the "League for Human Rights" of the B'nai B'rith organization, The Globe and Mail (Toronto), Jan. 22, 1992.

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:51 pm

"Historians have concluded that soap was not made from human fat. When so many people deny the Holocaust ever happened, why give them something to use against the truth?,"

- "Yad Vashem" Holocaust center statement, The Globe and Mail (Toronto), April 25, 1990.

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:57 pm

"from 1942 to 1945, certainly at Auschwitz, but probably overall, more Jews were killed by so-called 'natural' causes than by 'unnatural' ones"

- A. Mayer, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: The 'Final Solution' in History (Pantheon, 1988), p. 365.

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:06 pm



Above left: This was the plaque on display at the Auschwitz camp until 1989. 4 million deaths.

Above right: The plaque currently on display at Auschwitz as 0f 2002. 1.5 million deaths.

Why is it that the authorities at Auschwitz can drop 2.5 million deaths from their tally but the overall 6 million figure is still set in stone?


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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:24 pm

Frederick A. (Fred) Leuchter, Jr. is an American Federal Court qualified expert in execution technology and author of forensic Holocaust denial material. He has been employed by State authorities within the United States to improve the design of instruments for capital punishment as a result of which he has fulfilled execution equipment contracts with several states.[2] Leuchter became known around the world for his testimony in defense of Holocaust denier Ernst Zündel in 1988.[3] His study for Zündel's trial is referred to as the Leuchter report after it was published by Zündel as such[1][4] and is often framed as a scientifically based work of Holocaust denial, though his research methods and findings have been discredited.[citation needed]

- Wiki

Citation needed!

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:26 pm

The Leuchter Report
Synopsis and Findings

After a study of the available literature, examination and evaluation of the existing facilities at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek, with expert knowledge of the design criteria for gas chamber operation, an investigation of crematory technology and an inspection of modern crematories, the author finds no evidence that any of the facilities normally alleged to be execution gas chambers were ever used as such, and finds, further, that because of the design and fabrication of these facilities, they could not have been utilized for execution gas chambers.

Additionally, an evaluation of the crematory facilities produces conclusive evidence that contradicts the alleged volume of corpses cremated in the generally alleged time frame. It is, therefore, the best engineering opinion of the author that none of the facilities examined were ever utilized for the execution of human beings and that the crematories could never have supported the alleged work load attributed to them.


- The Leuchter Report - IHR

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:55 pm

"The chambers are too small to physically contain the occupants claimed and the doors all open inward, a situation which would inhibit removal of the bodies. With the chambers fully packed with occupants, there would be no circulation of the HCN within the room. Additionally, if the gas eventually did fill the chamber over a lengthy time period, those throwing Zyklon B in the roof vents and verifying the death of the occupants would die themselves from exposure to HCN. None of the alleged gas chambers were constructed in accordance with the design for delousing chambers which were effectively operating for years in a safe manner. None of these chambers were constructed in accordance with the known and proven designs of facilities operational in the United States at that time. It seems unusual that the presumed designers of these alleged gas chambers never consulted or considered the United States technology; the only country then executing prisoners with gas."

- The Leuchter Report: Design and Procedures at the Alleged Execution Gas Chambers

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:31 pm

"The author personally inspected and photographed the burning pits at Birkenau. Most remarkable about those pits is a high water table -- perhaps as high as 1.5 feet from the surface. The historical description of these pits is that they were 6 meters (19.55 feet) deep. It is not possible to burn corpses under water, even with the use of an artificial accelerant (gasoline). All pit locations officially designated on museum maps were inspected and as anticipated, since Birkenau was constructed on a swamp, all locations had water within 2 feet of the surface. It is the opinion of this author that no burning pits existed at Birkenau."

- The Leuchter Report: Forensic Considerations of HCN, Cyano-compounds and Crematories

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 pm

"The alleged execution gas chamber is, as stated earlier, not designed to be used in such a manner. There is no evidence of an exhaust system or fan of any type in this structure. The venting system for the alleged gas chamber consisted simply of four (4) square roof vents exhausting less than two (2) feet from the surface of the roof. Ventilating HCN gas in this manner would undoubtedly result in the poison gas reaching the confines of the SS hospital a short distance across the road, with patients and support personnel being killed. Because of the fact that the building has no sealant to prevent leakage, no gasketed doors to prevent gas reaching the crematory, drains that would permit gas to reach every building in the camp, no heating system, no circulatory system, no exhaust system or venting stack, no gas distribution system, constant dampness, no circulation due to the number of people in the chamber, and no way of satisfactorily introducing the Zyklon B material, it would be sheer suicide to attempt to utilize this morgue as an execution gas chamber. The results would be an explosion, or leaks gassing the entire camp."

- The Leuchter Report: Auschwitz Krema I

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:57 pm

The Leuchter Report
Conclusion


After reviewing all of the material and inspecting all of the sites at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek, your author finds the evidence as overwhelming. There were no execution gas chambers at any of these locations. It is the best engineering opinion of this author that the alleged gas chambers at the inspected sites could not have then been, or now, be utilized or seriously considered to function as execution gas chambers.

Prepared this 5th day of April, 1988 at Malden, Massachusetts.

Fred Leuchter Associates

[Signed]
Fred A. Leuchter, Jr.
Chief Engineer

- The Leuchter Report: Conclusion

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:59 pm


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Re: Six Million

Post by PneumaPsucheSoma on Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:09 am

Strangelove wrote:

Hi PPS.

That joke is in bad taste. I don't think this is a laughing matter.

Sorry.

Well... I only used that humor as irony. The only gas that was ever in those so-called "gas chambers" WAS flatulence. And all the Holocaust propaganda is... flatulence. To my dry humor, that makes sense.

Sorry you found it distasteful. I thought it quite apropos as a play on words to depict the utter stupidity of others thinking showers and delousing facilities were anything but exactly that... showers and delousing facilities.

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:13 pm

"It is my respectful view that the court should take judicial notice of the Holocaust having regard to all of the circumstances. The mass murder and extermination of Jews of Europe by the Nazi regime during the Second World War is so notorious as not to be the subject of dispute among reasonable persons. Furthermore, it is my view that the Holocaust is capable of immediate accurate demonstration by resort to readily accessible sources of indisputable accuracy. But I emphasize the ground upon which I hold that the court should take judicial notice of the Holocaust is that it is so notorious as to be not the subject of dispute among reasonable persons ... The Holocaust is the mass murder and extermination of Jews by the Nazi regime during the Second World War, and the jury will be told to take judicial notice of that."

- Judge Ron Thomas, judicial notice before the trial of Ernst Zundel, January 1988, Ontario, Canada

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:03 pm

"How many do you say died at Auschwitz?"

"My own figures are, Jewish, a shade over one million. Non-Jewish dead, perhaps 300,000 plus,"

"So the monument was more than twice that number."

"I did not, frankly, look at the monument closely enough to notice what it said, but any figure in multiple millions is off the mark."

- Transcript of cross examination of Raul Hilberg at the first trial of Ernst Zundel. (4-826)

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:52 pm

Do you know of one scientific report that substantiates that any single place was used as a gas chamber? If so, please name it, said Christie.

"What do you mean by a scientific report?," asked Hilberg.


I don't usually have to define simple words, said Christie, but by "scientific report" I mean a report conducted by anyone who purported to be a scientist and who examined physical evidence. Name one report of such a kind that showed the existence of gas chambers anywhere in Nazi-occupied territory. (5-968)

"I still don't quite understand the import of your question," said Hilberg. "Are you referring to a German, or a post-war -"

I don't care who -- German, post-war, Allied, Soviet -- any source at all. Name one, said Christie.

"To prove what?," asked Hilberg.

To conclude that they have physically seen a gas chamber. One scientific report, repeated Christie.

"I am really at a loss. I am very seldom at such a loss, but ... Again, I can only state that there have been aerial photographs that were analysed. Perhaps that is not in your definition of science. There have been contemporaneous documents about the lethality of the gas that was employed. Perhaps this is not important to you. There are documents -- " (5-969)

- Summary of the transcript, cross examination of Raul Hilberg by Attorney Douglas Christie at the first trial of Ernst Zundel.


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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:00 pm

I want you to tell me, repeated Christie, if you know of one scientific report of the analysis of gas chambers that was used in conjunction with Zyklon B (hydrocyanic acid) for the killing of people?

"No, I don't know of any such report unless it is, you know, somewhere in the records of the Soviet Polish Investigation Commission of Lublin, Majdanek, because you have to remember that aside from the Lublin chambers, otherwise known as Majdanek, and the one Auschwitz chamber still in existence, there wouldn't be any -"

Judge Locke interrupted: "Doctor ... do you know of such a report?"

"No," replied Hilberg.

- Summary of the transcript, cross examination of Raul Hilberg by Attorney Douglas Christie at the first trial of Ernst Zundel.


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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:15 pm

"(Chief U.S. prosecutor) Jackson is away conducting his high-grade lynching party in Nuremberg [...] I don't mind what he does to the Nazis, but I hate to see the pretense that he is running a court and proceeding according to common law. This is a little too sanctimonious a fraud to meet my old-fashioned ideas."

- 'Harlan Fiske Stone: Pillar of the Law', Alpheus T. Mason, (New York: Viking, 1956)

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:35 pm

"American investigators at the U. S. Court in Dachau, Germany, used the following methods to obtain confessions: Beatings and brutal kickings. Knocking out teeth and breaking jaws. Mock trials. Solitary confinement. Posturing as priests. Very limited rations. Spiritual deprivation. Promises of acquittal."

- E. L. Van Roden, "American Atrocities in Germany", The Progressive. February 1949, p. 21f.

EDWARD L. VAN RODEN, a Pennsylvania judge, served in World War I and II, in the latter as Chief of the Military Justice Division for the European Theater where he saw service in Normandy, Belgium, the Rhineland, the Battle of the Bulge, and in the Ardennes. In 1946 he was reassigned to active duty and served on several important court martial trials in Germany. In 1948 Secretary of the Army Royall appointed him to an extraordinary commission charged with investigating the Dachau War Crimes program.

Full report here: American Atrocities in Germany By Edward L. van Roden (Codoh website)

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:37 pm

"The American investigators who committed the atrocities in the name of American Justice and under the American flag are going scot-free. At this point there are two objectives which should be aimed for:

1. Those prisoners whose death sentences have not been commuted and who have not yet been hanged should be saved, pending full judicial review.

2. American investigators who abused the powers of victory and prostituted justice to vengeance, should be exposed in a public process, preferably in the U. S., and prosecuted.

Unless these crimes committed by Americans are exposed by us at home, the prestige of America and American justice will suffer permanent and irreparable damage. We can partially atone for our own misconduct if we first search it out and publicly condemn and disavow it. If we wait for our enemies to blazon our guilt abroad, we can only bow our heads in shamed admission."

- E. L. Van Roden, "American Atrocities in Germany", The Progressive. February 1949, p. 21f.

Full report here: American Atrocities in Germany By Edward L. van Roden (Codoh website)

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:57 pm

"During the war the WJC [World Jewish Congress] had created an Institute of Jewish Affairs in New York (its headquarters are now in London). The directors were two great Lithuanian Jewish jurists, Jacob and Nehemiah Robinson. Thanks to them, the Institute worked out two completely revolutionary ideas: the Nuremberg tribunal and German reparations.

The importance of the tribunal which sat at Nuremberg has not been reckoned at its true worth. According to international law it was in fact impossible to punish soldiers who had been obeying orders. It was Jacob Robinson who had this extravagant, sensational idea. When he began to canvass it among the jurists of the American Supreme Court they took him for a fool. 'What did these Nazi officers do that was so unprecedented?' they asked. 'You can imagine Hitler standing trial, or maybe even Göring, but these are simple soldiers who carried out their orders and behaved as loyal soldiers.' We therefore had the utmost trouble in persuading the Allies; the British were fairly opposed, the French barely interested, and although they took part later they did not play any great part. The success came from Robinson managing to convince the Supreme Court judge, Robert Jackson."


- "The Jewish Paradox" by Nahum Goldmann, page 122.

Nahum Goldmann (Hebrew: נחום גולדמן‎) (July 10, 1895–August 29, 1982) was a leading Zionist and the founder and longtime president of the World Jewish Congress.

- Nahum Goldmann - Wiki

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:00 pm

"I thought at the time and still think that the Nuremberg trials were unprincipled. Law was created ex post facto to suit the passion and clamour of the time. The concept of ex post facto law is not congenial to the Anglo-American viewpoint on law."

- 'Dönitz at Nuremberg: A Reappraisal' - Justice William O. Douglas of the Supreme Court of the United States

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:21 pm

"Most of the evidence in the trials was documentary, selected from the large tonnage of captured records. The selection was made by the prosecution. The defense had access only to those documents which the prosecution considered material to the case.

"Our tribunal introduced a rule of procedure that when the prosecution introduced an excerpt from a document, the entire document should be made available to the defense for presentation as evidence. The prosecution protested vigorously."


- Comments of Mr. Justice Wennerstrum of the Nuremberg Military Tribunal as recorded by Hal Foust, "Nazi Trial Judge Rips 'Injustice'," Chicago Tribune, Feb. 23, 1948, pp. 1, 2.

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:57 pm

"Every Jew, somewhere in his being, should set apart a zone of hate - healthy, virile hate - for what the German personifies and what persists in the Ger-man. To do otherwise would be a betrayal of the dead."

- Elie Wiesel, Legends of Our Time, first published by Schocken Books, New York 1982. page 142:

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Re: Six Million

Post by Strangelove on Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:12 pm

Certainly the conclusions you draw, pointed out Christie, about the death of 5 million Jews at the hands of the National Socialists by some plan is an opinion.

"The interpretation I have given to that as to how it comes about and how we are to understand it is certainly an interpretation or an opinion," said Browning. "The exact number's certainly an estimate...The existence of a plan would again depend upon your interpretation of the term 'plan'." (16-3796)

- Summary of the transcript, cross examination of Christopher Browning by Attorney Douglas Christie at the second trial of Ernst Zundel, Canada, 1988.

Christopher Robert Browning (born May 22, 1944) is an American historian of the Holocaust. - Wiki

NOTE: Documents released in 1989 under the Freedom of Information Act revealed that Browning was paid $25,818.85 for research, testimony and expenses.


Last edited by Strangelove on Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Six Million

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