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preterism

Post by zone on Sat May 03, 2014 8:03 pm

i want to examine this concept fully. anybody else up for it?
only have iphone for a few days so will be primarily reading.
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Re: preterism

Post by zone on Sat May 03, 2014 9:01 pm

am watching...youtube

a primer on preterism
NCE church.
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Re: preterism

Post by Strangelove on Mon May 05, 2014 12:05 am

Full or partial?

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Re: preterism

Post by zone on Mon May 05, 2014 12:39 am

partial first...thats what i believe.
but i run into some problems.....
tpo hard to go into detail using my phone....will keep studying and try to write more on it.

if anyone else has thoughts or resources i can read okay but typing is tough...lol
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Re: preterism

Post by zone on Wed May 07, 2014 5:59 pm

PP1: Brief Explanation of Partial Preterism

http://kloposmasm.com/2009/08/13/brief-explanation-of-partial-preterism/
...
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Re: preterism

Post by zone on Wed May 07, 2014 6:00 pm

zone wrote:PP1: Brief Explanation of Partial Preterism

http://kloposmasm.com/2009/08/13/brief-explanation-of-partial-preterism/
...

OUTLINE
A. Introduction
B. Partial-Preterism Explained
C. The Book of Revelation: Early or Late Authorship?

I. External Evidence for an Early Date
II. Internal Evidence for an Early Date
D. Daniel’s 70-Week Prophecy

E. Jerusalem’s Destruction Foretold in the Olivet Discourse

I. Did Jesus Come in 70 AD?
II. Signs of the Close of the Age
III. The Abomination of Desolation
IV. No Greater Tribulation Before or Since
F. The Man of Lawlessness (II Thessalonians 2)

G. The Historical Events Leading Up to 70 AD

H. The Spiritual Significance of 70 AD
I. References
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Re: preterism

Post by zone on Wed May 07, 2014 6:05 pm

The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation
A Study of the Last Two Visions of Daniel, and of the Olivet Discourse of the Lord Jesus Christ
Philip Mauro(1921)

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1921_mauro_seventy-weeks.html

..
one of the best books i've read. helped me with the daniel study, where i matched historical events and figures to everything in daniel.

example: this is HEROD:

Daniel 11
6"Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done. 37"He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will he show regard for any other god; for he will magnify himself above them all.


dispies have it as a pope or politician. history and the internal witness of scripture say it was Herod.
EVERYTHING in daniel is fulfilled and i can prove it.
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Re: preterism

Post by zone on Wed May 07, 2014 6:12 pm

JUST FOR CONSIDERATION. there are some things that are undeniable. others, meh.....dunno. but i intend to do my best to get to the bottom of it......z

Galatians 4 Shows That Isaiah 66 Is Not About Modern Israel

I grew up in a church where Christian Zionism and dispensationalist theology was (and still is) taught. In that setting, and in others, I was repeatedly taught that Bible prophecy was fulfilled when Israel became a nation in 1948. Furthermore, I was told, this event “restarted God’s prophetic time clock.” Two passages of Scripture allegedly foretold that event, Isaiah 66:7-9 and Matthew 24:32-33. In neither case does this ring true, and both passages carry an entirely different message.
Isaiah 66:5-13
Many believe that Isaiah was looking ahead about 2700 years to the political events of 1948 when he wrote the final portion of his book. They often point to verses 7-9 in particular, and insist that Isaiah foresaw the birth of national Israel “in one day.” Before looking at what this passage says, let’s consider Isaiah’s patterns and themes in the final eight chapters of his book:

  • Isaiah 59 concludes with a Messianic prophecy (“The Redeemer will come to Zion, and to those who turn from transgression in Jacob…”). This prophecy, quoted in Romans 11:26-27, foretold Christ’s work on the cross as a sacrifice for sin.
  • Isaiah 60 is filled with prophetic decrees of the coming new covenant age (this present age), when the nations come to the light of the gospel.
  • Isaiah 61 contains a prophecy about the Lord’s anointed One and the good news, healing, and liberty He would bring; Jesus said this was fulfilled during His earthly ministry (see Luke 4:18-19).
  • Isaiah 65 speaks of new heavens and a new earth, in which sin, death, childbearing, and labor would continue (this makes sense if his prophecy is viewed as the establishment of the new covenant age rather than an overhaul of this planet and the galaxy). Our study on Matthew 24:35discusses more fully the view that the Bible sometimes uses covenant language when speaking of “the heavens and the earth.”

http://kloposmasm.com/2014/04/18/galatians-4-shows-that-isaiah-66-is-not-about-modern-israel/#comment-11458

....

okay....so me being anti-dispensationalism; and being solidly amillennial, check this out:

"Isaiah 65 speaks of new heavens and a new earth, in which sin, death, childbearing, and labor would continue "


!! i've previously thought of this as very obscure. but think about it....it CAN'T be a future millennium for me (there ain't one).


hmmm......
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Re: preterism

Post by Knight2Christ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:17 pm

Zone, have you ever read; 'The Days of Vengeance'  by David Chilton?   It's a work of genius if you ask me!  
He was a partial preterist until after this book a brush with death, and he became a full preterist, saying,...'I can't believe in was right here in front of our eyes the whole time....'  Any way you believe, you will love this book and this brother!  That's just my humble opinion!  
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Re: preterism

Post by Knight2Christ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 pm

zone wrote:JUST FOR CONSIDERATION. there are some things that are undeniable. others, meh.....dunno. but i intend to do my best to get to the bottom of it......z

Galatians 4 Shows That Isaiah 66 Is Not About Modern Israel

I grew up in a church where Christian Zionism and dispensationalist theology was (and still is) taught. In that setting, and in others, I was repeatedly taught that Bible prophecy was fulfilled when Israel became a nation in 1948. Furthermore, I was told, this event “restarted God’s prophetic time clock.” Two passages of Scripture allegedly foretold that event, Isaiah 66:7-9 and Matthew 24:32-33. In neither case does this ring true, and both passages carry an entirely different message.
Isaiah 66:5-13
Many believe that Isaiah was looking ahead about 2700 years to the political events of 1948 when he wrote the final portion of his book. They often point to verses 7-9 in particular, and insist that Isaiah foresaw the birth of national Israel “in one day.” Before looking at what this passage says, let’s consider Isaiah’s patterns and themes in the final eight chapters of his book:

  • Isaiah 59 concludes with a Messianic prophecy (“The Redeemer will come to Zion, and to those who turn from transgression in Jacob…”). This prophecy, quoted in Romans 11:26-27, foretold Christ’s work on the cross as a sacrifice for sin.
  • Isaiah 60 is filled with prophetic decrees of the coming new covenant age (this present age), when the nations come to the light of the gospel.
  • Isaiah 61 contains a prophecy about the Lord’s anointed One and the good news, healing, and liberty He would bring; Jesus said this was fulfilled during His earthly ministry (see Luke 4:18-19).
  • Isaiah 65 speaks of new heavens and a new earth, in which sin, death, childbearing, and labor would continue (this makes sense if his prophecy is viewed as the establishment of the new covenant age rather than an overhaul of this planet and the galaxy). Our study on Matthew 24:35discusses more fully the view that the Bible sometimes uses covenant language when speaking of “the heavens and the earth.”

http://kloposmasm.com/2014/04/18/galatians-4-shows-that-isaiah-66-is-not-about-modern-israel/#comment-11458

....

okay....so me being anti-dispensationalism; and being solidly amillennial, check this out:

"Isaiah 65 speaks of new heavens and a new earth, in which sin, death, childbearing, and labor would continue "


!! i've previously thought of this as very obscure. but think about it....it CAN'T be a future millennium for me (there ain't one).


hmmm......

Then again Zone Isaiah 65 does say what it say?!    mmmmm 

I use to not believe that the 1000 yr in Rev was literal; but now of days I do!  

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Re: preterism

Post by Knight2Christ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:07 pm

I am a full Preterist, as you well know Zone, but maybe not as you have become accustom to viewing them.  As different people come from different places it's hard to always know what's on a persons mind.  

I am a full Preterist in this application:  That the 7 Sealed Scroll was unsealed in that same generation, 30ad to 70ad.  I do not believe that all prophecy in God's Word was fulfilled by then.  example...the glory of the Lord will fill the earth as the water covereth the sea....  And I do believe there are still some prophecy in the book of Revelation that is to be fulfilled.  Because inside of the book of Revelation are 2 Scrolls!  

The book of Revelation is not in order; whether this was a design of God, or man that changed it; until it is re-sequenced it could go another 2000 yrs with out being rightly interpreted!  That is not to say, that some people do not have some different things correct to say about it.

I applaud you ZONE!  For taking on this task, because I know you do not believe that the 2nd coming of Christ happened in the end of that generation of the Early Church!  

But I will share with you 4 things that people do not ever consider in their application of interpreting end time teachings!  

1)  the 2nd coming only ever meant one thing!  That the Messiah who was to be revealed to Israel in His 1st coming (ie Jesus), would come again, a 2nd time to that same generation; but this time without sin!  This must be inserted: Both the 1st and 2nd coming of Messiah, are directed towards this last generation of OCI, it becomes obsolete after 70-73ad!   

2) The resurrection of the Dead, 'Rr of the Dd'.  The Rr of the Dd was a promise to Old Covenant Israel 'OCI', it was never a promise to any one in the 21st Century!  The Rr of the Dd and the 1st Resurrection are 2 separate things, the latter pertains to the New Covenant Church; which began right after the former was completed.  

  Now before someone gets all lathered up, this Early church was a special generation Paul and Peter and John were of the last generation of OCI and they were also of the 1st generation of New Covenant Israel 'NCI'.  Not all Christians were take in the rapture, a remnant of OCI were left and some Gentile believers under these Apostles!  It's important to understand these Gentile believers were a witness of what God had done through the Cross of Christ!  They were the 1st born of God and His Lamb!  This was a great coup for God!  

3) The rapture, 

4) The rewarding the faithful of OCI, and the punishing of the unfaithful of OCI.  This had nothing to do with everyone who had been born in the history of the world.  These rewards and Judgements were to those who had up to this time been offered the Kingdom of God.

I say these things not to try to persuade anyone in here to believe what I have to say; but to tell you according to Scripture these things could not have happened at any other time in the history of the world!  68ad to 70ad  God has not left the faithful dead of OCI in Sheol for these last 2000 yrs!  This was one of the most important things to these Jewish Apostles!  

I know ever person has their problem with different Scriptures, mostly because of what we've been taught.  Like '...all eyes will see Him on earth.... or in the World, but this is speaking of the Covenant earth or land and the world of the 7 day Covenant creation in Adam!  ...including them who Crucified Him 'Jesus'!  or those who Crucified Him would still be alive at His 2nd return!  

Jesus even once said this straight forward to His followers, that some of them would still be alive, when He came in the Glory of the Father with God's Holy Angels, with reward and judgement!  This is why God choose's to speak in symbolic language.  We say God just speak straight forward to us...hahahahah  that's funny I don't care who you are!  

Anyway, I just wanted to throw somethings out there to liven up your thread!  The days of Jesus and the time of the Early Church was the fulling of the  largest part of prophecy; all of the things that you will think of as belonging to the end times have been stolen from their proper place!  It is up to us to make it right or the Church is lost!  

The end of days, or the last days, or the end of time; was not pertaining to the end of the Cosmos, but to the End of the Old Way in Adam!  This was the great and terrible day of the Lord!  This is what the Ancient Prophets of Israel mourned; Jesus became the New Adam and the New Creation; the Old one was now passing away and would be made obsolete after 70ad!  

The Ancient Prophet's of Israel didn't give one good rip about me and you in the 21st Century, as they put forth the Holy Script of Prophetic things!  This is what dispensationalist do, they want to put their selves in the Scripture and make it about themselves! Whether they do it on purpose or not, I don't know?  

just some of my thoughts  
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Re: preterism

Post by Knight2Christ on Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:32 pm

There is something else I'd like to add concerning the Resurrection of the dead, 'Rr of the Dd'.  O by the way would anyone in here like to share?  Concerning your bringing forth a first born unto the Rr of the Dd; here in the 21st Century!  How is that working out for you?  Not being coy or a smart-ass, please, share with everyone how this is done after 30ad!  

     These first born unto the Rr of the Dd, were the actual salvation of the faithful of OCI!  So we come to this prophetic time frame of the Early Church, we have Jesus the Messiah of OCI Who is the 1st Born of God!  Who is more righteous then the Messiah, to continue this process of bringing a first born unto the Rr of the Dd?   This is part of the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets, right?   

     People are trained to speak about the Rr of the Dd, and the Rapture, as if they invented it, and the Word of God has absolutely nothing to say about them!  

     So, just for you to ponder, concerning this prophetic time table of 30ad to 70ad; there are 3 different sets of the first-born to consider:  1) Jesus, the first born of God!   2) the first born as unto the Rr of the Dd!  3) The Gentiles as the first born of God and His Lamb! ie Israel's enemy from Adam to Adam.   

     WHAT!, tell me it isn't so Father Abraham?  YES, these Gentile Dogs, have now entered into the throne room of God, with boldness to receive the Grace of God, through Christ Jesus your Messiah!  There is therefore now no more Jew or Gentile!  
The times of the Gentiles were ended with the times of the Jews!  Which means the Jews who were known as the chosen people of God, ended, as did the Gentiles their mortal enemy's in about 70ad!  

     This Chosen Nation is no more, nor will ever be again!  All of the faithful of OCI are with God; there are none who are righteous to continue their bloodlines beyond the Messiah they rejected!  The Jews of today, if they are truly Jews at all, are descended from those who were cut-off from Israel (their promises), they were cast out of the kingdom.  They can only enter back into the kingdom and it's promises through the preaching of the Gospel of the same Messiah they rejected, and no other way!  

     The Rr of the Dd is such a Sacred promise to OCI; if God cannot keep His Promises' to them how do you expect with all sincerity, for Him to keep any promise to you? 

   just some of my thoughts Rolling Eyes
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Re: preterism

Post by Knight2Christ on Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:43 pm

zone wrote:
The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation
A Study of the Last Two Visions of Daniel, and of the Olivet Discourse of the Lord Jesus Christ
Philip Mauro(1921)

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1921_mauro_seventy-weeks.html

..
one of the best books i've read. helped me with the daniel study, where i matched historical events and figures to everything in daniel.

example: this is HEROD:

Daniel 11
6"Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done. 37"He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will he show regard for any other god; for he will magnify himself above them all.


dispies have it as a pope or politician. history and the internal witness of scripture say it was Herod.
EVERYTHING in daniel is fulfilled and i can prove it.


     I agree, what a great book!  The Lord put it in my hands back in the 80s; I probably read it through 10xs in ten years!  What a great revelation God gave this man of the prophecies in Daniel!!!  
   
    just some of my thoughts      t ray
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Re: preterism

Post by Knight2Christ on Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:27 am

Did Jesus being of Old Covenant Israel, have to fulfill bringing forth a first-born unto the Rr of the Dd?

     There is a Hugh problem with not allowing that the 2nd coming happened at the end of the Early Church period; in fact there are several.  The first problem is with Jesus fulfilling the Law and the Prophets within this allotted time period; that is within the prophetic time table, of the abolishing of the Old way in Adam!  

     The 2nd coming and all that comes with it, is the ultimate fulfilling of the Law and the Prophets, and that is what slams the door on this evil generation, and OCI as a whole!  

     Listen now!  Jesus died without bringing a first born son unto the Rr of the Dd!  They (those responsible for killing Him), thought they had beaten God!  But they forgot the Levirate Law!  Jesus had one generation to bring forth His first-born unto the Rr of the Dd!  30ad to 70ad  

     Who did Jesus dwell with in the 3 and 1/2 years of His ministry as He was revealed to Israel as their Messiah, and rejected?  His disciple's!  Right?!  

     Who was the wife of the deceased husband to go unto a lay with?  Those who they had dwelt with His Brethren!  Or the disciple's Right?!  

      What happened at the Feast of Pentecost?  The disciple's, or now the Apostle's, received the Spirit of God from above, and they began to preach with the Spirit's anointing.  The faithful of this evil generation of OCI Jesus' 'Wife', who rejected Him; came into them (Jesus' Brethren) and received the Spirit of God, (impregnated them) and was born into the kingdom of God.  

     They had one generation to go unto the rest of their countrymen the Jews, in The Way, preaching the Gospel as a witness of the Kingdom of God!  The gospel was also preached unto the Gentiles, who were God and His Lamb's first-born.  

     This is why the 2nd coming, the Rr of the Dd, the Rapture and the rewarding and judgement of all OCI,  could not have been at any other time in the history of the world.  

     Daniel in the 70th wk prophecy, prophesied that Messiah would be cut off from Israel after 3 and 1/2 yrs!  Which meant, that Messiah would die without bringing a first-born unto the Rr of the Dd!  Which meant, He was cut off from the promises' of God!  So how does He fulfill the most important part of the Law and the Prophets?!  The Levirate Law!  

      Go to the Scripture's and work it out for yourselves!  It is one of the greatest thing's God ever pulled on the Devil!  

     God is the Master at hiding things in plain sight!!!   When Jesus dies that Passover, this began the fulfilling of 'the feast year of the Lord', in 30ad.  All of these things matter in marking out the beginning and ending of different prophesies!  

      I did not go into great detail concerning the Levirate Law and other things.  But all of you people in here are smarter than me, so I believe, if you choose to, you can work these things out.  If you write these things down; work them out; and track them.  

     Listen!  If we do not learn to understand the concepts of the things in Scripture of which we speak, it is utterly impossible to know their interpretation!    

  just some of my thoughts

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Re: preterism

Post by Strangelove on Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:28 am

Well, I'm game. I've never really looked into full preterism. How long has FP been a popular view?

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Re: preterism

Post by zone on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:54 pm

hi doc...been super busy and on/off sick. okay now.
will soon be travelling etc.

i'm not sold on FP. BUT: they have so many resolutions to the difficult passages, they MUST be PARTIALLY right. pun intended.

really quickly, i believe i have found 4 passages in the NT which DO speak of a literal second coming.

..........

having said that, when i decided to ignore the cries of heresy, knowing i was simply looking at information, lo and behold, preterism has a LOT of good info.

i avoid their forums and blogs. i simply look at their exegesis.

more later when i can.
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Re: preterism

Post by Manny Clay on Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:37 pm

T Ray, I am unfamiliar with Levirate Law.  Can you please provide relevant scripture passages?  Than you. Manny

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Re: preterism

Post by Knight2Christ on Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:31 pm

Manny Clay wrote:T Ray, I am unfamiliar with Levirate Law.  Can you please provide relevant scripture passages?  Than you. Manny

Manny, 
try Gen 38:8; Deut 25;5-10; Ruth 3:4-10 (not sure if this is a Levirate marriage)  

Levirate marriage is the term used today, I'm pretty sure Moses did not use that actual term.  It means, to raise up 'seed' to the departed brother.  

There is a lot of info if you google it!  

I do not off hand remember the Scripture, but Jesus was being questioned by some Old Testament Order, concerning a woman who's husband had died without bearing issue, and she then proceeded to marry all seven of his brothers, also dying with out a child; asking Him, who's wife would she be in heaven? Jesus rebuked them for not understanding the Scripture's.  This was concerning the Levirate Law.  As many places in Scripture there may have been more going on here than we realize.  

If you read the book of Dan, there were some things that God revealed to him that ended up making him 'Daniel' Ill, the Messiah being cut-off after 3 1/2 yrs., from the promises of God would have certainly fit that bill!  But God assured Daniel not to be worried about these things, that he would rest with his forefathers and be resurrected with them at this prophetic time period in question!  

What is the most important thing in the fulfilling of the Law and the Prophets?  
   (this should at least be a question we are asking)
It is bringing forth a first- born unto the Rr of the Dd, is it not?  
This is what brought forth eternal life concerning the faithful of OCI!  
This is why OCI did what they did.  

Who said, '...I come not to do away with the Law and the Prophets; but to fulfill them.....?  Jesus, right!  Jesus was a part of the Old Way in Adam!

Satan in all of his fallen glory and the religious asses of that day didn't have a clue, what was about to hit them!  But through the Levirate Law the Early Church was birthed, including the Gentiles which was spoken about in many O T reference's; concerning this unknown time period.  All of this lost to the new fledgling Church after 70ad, because all of those who would have known about it were gone; died or taken in the rapture!  For the most part this has not been known since before 70ad. 
Even by many full preterist!  So your not going to find many, if any teachings on these things I have laid out here.  

This is the 21st Century, I'm a free thinker, I'm not called to the traditions of the church and i do not believe that everything that is called of God, is of God.  (I am not telling anyone else what to believe about the tradition's that they hold dear concerning their walk with God!)    Nor, do I believe anyone else in this chat room should just believe me, cause I'm me!!!   LOL!  But I tell you, this thing will burn a hole in your soul if you try to ignore it, or pass it off in some other way!  Once God has gotten your attention; it changes everything you've come to know about His Kingdom; AND just makes it better!  If you love the truth's of God!  

   as usual i've said to much  
  just some of my thoughts
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Re: preterism

Post by Knight2Christ on Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:33 pm

I would like to add this to the study of full preterist.  That is Jesus Himself telling His sheep the exact season of His 2nd coming!    

     Matt 16:27,28     ...27...for the Son of Man will COME (again) in the glory of His Father with angels, and then He (Jesus) will reward each according to his works...28...Assuredly (Jesus is telling them, I tell you who are here today a truthful thing!) I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man COMING (again, a 2nd time) in His kingdom.....  

     Jesus here has just told His sheep the season of His 2nd coming, it couldn't be made any plainer if He tattooed it across someone's head!  Now let's look at what Mark says.  

     Mark 8:38-9:1  ...38...for whoever is ashamed of Me and my Words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He COMES (again) in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.....9:1.....And He said to them, Assuredly, (or again truthfully) I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power......

     Here, that evil and perverse generation is specifically called out by name, as those who would have to deal with His 2nd coming!  

     It is astonishing how deeply ingrained is the groove that Satan has embedded this lie in the minds of those who seek after God!  

     I know they say, but Jesus got it wrong!  Here let me interpret it for you; instead of Jesus telling you in His own Word!  

      Jesus did not tell them the day or the hour, but the exact season in the prophetic time table of God, of His 2nd coming!  Some time at the end of that generation, 30ad to 70ad

     Whooa, I've got an idea; let's just believe God's Word until we can figure it out!  Just a quick question?  If you did not have all the things deluged in your mind concerning a 2nd coming; and you read these scripture's quoted above, when would you say  the 2nd coming of Messiah, would be?  But over and over we are told, no let us interpret that for you, it did not happen that way and you are a heretic for bringing it up!   Twisted Evil   

     Is Jesus truthful?  Why would He add that (truely, truely, I say unto you who are standing right in front of me), if He didn't want them to trust Him?  

    look!  here i go again, ramblin on and on!   
   just some of my thoughts
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Re: preterism

Post by Strangelove on Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:58 pm

Oh I just remembered, I've been through this debate...

The "Coming" of Jesus Christ

Also see here....

The Error of Hymenaeus

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Re: preterism

Post by Manny Clay on Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:25 pm

T Ray, I have read and reread your post regarding Levirate Law.  I believe Jesus rebuked the Saducees not because they failed to understand Levirate Law but because they did not believe in a future bodily resurrection.  As far as Jesus being cut off it was not for Himself (His sin) but for others as scripture says "God made Him to be sin for us Who knew no sin."  God raised up spiritual sons to Jesus through His bride the church as the scripture declares.  Isaiah 53 is very pertinent.  'He shall see His seed (the elect)  and was satisfied.'  Hebrews tells us it was necessary that he be made like unto His brethren.  The most important thing regarding the fulfilling of the Law and Prophets is Jesus -- His sinless life, substitutionary death, burial, and bodily resurrection as He "is the end of the law to all who believe."  Jesus told the Jews that Moses wrote of Him, not Levirate Law as that tradition preceded the Law of Moses.  I do not know what you mean when you say Jesus is part of the Old Way in Adam as scripture tells us He is the new and living way.


Last edited by Manny Clay on Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling flow of post)

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Re: preterism

Post by Knight2Christ on Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:16 pm

Manny Clay wrote:T Ray, I have read and reread your post regarding Levirate Law.  I believe Jesus rebuked the Saducees not because they failed to understand Levirate Law but because they did not believe in a future bodily resurrection.  As far as Jesus being cut off it was not for Himself (His sin) but for others as scripture says "God made Him to be sin for us Who knew no sin."  God raised up spiritual sons to Jesus through His bride the church as the scripture declares.  Isaiah 53 is very pertinent.  'He shall see His seed (the elect)  and was satisfied.'  Hebrews tells us it was necessary that he be made like unto His brethren.  The most important thing regarding the fulfilling of the Law and Prophets is Jesus -- His sinless life, substitutionary death, burial, and bodily resurrection as He "is the end of the law to all who believe."  Jesus told the Jews that Moses wrote of Him, not Levirate Law as that tradition preceded the Law of Moses.  I do not know what you mean when you say Jesus is part of the Old Way in Adam as scripture tells us He is the new and living way.


Hey manny!  

You'll probably just have to fold the notes up on the Levirate Law and put them in your pocket for a later day, I've said all that is necessary to say about it.  

I don't believe that I ever said why Jesus rebuked them, but the subject He was rebuking them over was a conversation concerning the Levirate Law.  Your right they all were speaking of the Rr of the Dd!  This is what the Levirate Law was designed to do; protect the faithful of OCI in the time of , the Rr of the Dd who died without bringing forth a first born.  

If Jesus was not a part of the Old Way in Adam He could not have fulfilled the Law and the Prophets!  Yes after His death and 3 days in Sheol in 'Abraham's Bosom', after He was resurrected from the Dead; He was lifted up, as the New Creation; the New Adam and the New and Living Way!  After He (Jesus), put to death in Himself the Old Way in Adam, 'the Torah of Moses' which required a violent blood sacrifice!  Amen!  Thus in Christ Jesus, we are given the Torah of Christ!  in Him the New and Living Way!  

.....Love covereth a multitude of sins.!...:Love God with all your might..& your neighbor as yourself..!....if someone smites (or offends) you, turn the other cheek and do not smite, (or offend) them back..!...pray for your enemy and forgive them..! etc.... 

   T Ray  
  just some of my thoughts
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Re: preterism

Post by Knight2Christ on Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:31 pm

Strangelove wrote:Oh I just remembered, I've been through this debate...

The "Coming" of Jesus Christ

Also see here....

The Error of Hymenaeus


Thanks Doc!  

The error is understanding that these letters were wrote before the Rr of the Dd, around 50ad; the Rr of the Dd happened around 68 to 70ad.  Paul also writes something like this to the Thessalonians.  

These things were written in real time, and it was causing many to stumble in their faith no doubt, and a crises for the Apostle Paul! 

    T Ray
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Re: preterism

Post by Strangelove on Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:38 pm

Knight2Christ wrote:Thanks Doc!  

The error is understanding that these letters were wrote before the Rr of the Dd, around 50ad; the Rr of the Dd happened around 68 to 70ad.  Paul also writes something like this to the Thessalonians.  

These things were written in real time, and it was causing many to stumble in their faith no doubt, and a crises for the Apostle Paul! 

    T Ray

I have no idea what your talking about.

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Re: preterism

Post by Knight2Christ on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:29 pm

forget about it Doc!  Must of  been having a bad day; don't remember now, what I was talking about either!    Embarassed  !!! ?
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