Eschatology Comparison

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Eschatology Comparison

Post by zone on Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:39 am

Eschatology Comparison

This page is broken down into two sections. Chart #1 lists the main distinctives of Dispensational Premillennialism and Historic Premillennialism. Chart #2 lists the main distinctives of Postmillennialism and Amillennialism.

This information was excerpted from For He Must Reign: An Introduction to Reformed Eschatology by Kim Riddlebarger. The complete audio series is available through ACE. They can also be reached at http://www.alliancenet.org.

This series gives a good overview of the various positions with an excellent Biblical support for Amillennialism.

It should be noted that is information may be a little dated as I understand that RC Spoul has gone into the postmil camp. This chart has him listed as amil.

http://www.fivesolas.com/esc_chrt.htm
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Re: Eschatology Comparison

Post by zone on Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:35 pm

friends, i believe i see what's happened.

there's only ONE model that works - Amillennialsim.

it's the ONLY model that by its Hermeneutics allows for The Kingdom to have begun with the Lord's Triumphal entry into Jerusalem as KING; having the Kingdom truly in operation NOW, though from HEAVEN; with the purpose of TRANSLATING redeemed sinners (by Grace through Faith) from this AGE (dying) into the NEXT AGE (eternal) "this world and the world to come".

it's the only model which does not in some way insist upon an earthly reign, thereby excluding the working of principalities and powers to establish the Kingdom Now by human agency.

more on this to come: "this world and the world to come": TWO WORLD MODEL.


Last edited by zone on Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Eschatology Comparison

Post by zone on Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:42 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics

BiblicalMain article: Biblical Hermeneutics

Biblical hermeneutics is the study of the principles of interpretation concerning the books of the Bible. While Jewish and Christian Biblical hermeneutics have some overlap and dialogue, they have distinctly separate interpretative traditions.

JewishMain article: Talmudical Hermeneutics

Christian

Medieval
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Comparison of Christian millennial teachings

Post by zone on Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:46 pm

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Re: Eschatology Comparison

Post by zone on Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:50 pm

(notice what the Catholics say about Amill):

Amillennialism

The amillennial view interprets Revelation 20 symbolically and sees the millennium not as an earthly golden age in which the world will be totally Christianized, but as the present period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on the earth through his Church. This was the view of the Protestant Reformers and is still the most common view among traditional Protestants, though not among most of the newer Evangelical and Fundamentalist groups.

Amillennialists also believe in the coexistence of good and evil on earth until the end. The tension that exists on earth between the righteous and the wicked will be resolved only by Christ’s return at the end of time. The golden age of the millennium is instead the heavenly reign of Christ with the saints, in which the Church on earth participates to some degree, though not in the glorious way it will at the Second Coming.

Amillennialists point out that the thrones of the saints who reign with Christ during the millennium appear to be set in heaven (Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4, 11:16) and that the text nowhere states that Christ is on earth during this reign with the saints.

They explain that, although the world will never be fully Christianized until the Second Coming, the millennium does have effects on earth in that Satan is bound in such a way that he cannot deceive the nations by hindering the preaching of the gospel (Rev. 20:3). They point out that Jesus spoke of the necessity of "binding the strong man" (Satan) in order to plunder his house by rescuing people from his grip (Matt. 12:29). When the disciples returned from a tour of preaching the gospel, rejoicing at how demons were subject to them, Jesus declared, "I saw Satan fall like lightning" (Luke 10:18). Thus for the gospel to move forward at all in the world, it is necessary for Satan to be bound in one sense, even if he may still be active in attacking individuals (1 Pet. 5:).

The millennium is a golden age not when compared to the glories of the age to come, but in comparison to all prior ages of human history, in which the world was swallowed in pagan darkness. Today, a third of the human race is Christian and even more than that have repudiated pagan idols and embraced the worship of the God of Abraham.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp
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Re: Eschatology Comparison

Post by zone on Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:54 pm

My discussion of the amillennial understanding of the millennium will include the following topics: the interpretation of the book of Revelation, the interpretation of Revelation 20:1-6, a look at two Old Testament passages commonly viewed as predicting an earthly millennial kingdom, a brief sketch of amillennial eschatology and a summarizing statement of some of the implications of amillennial eschatology....
...This, then, is the amillennial interpretation of Revelation 20:1-6. So understood, the passage says nothing about an earthly reign of Christ over a primarily Jewish kingdom. Rather, it describes the reigning with Christ in heaven of the souls of believers who have died. They reign during the time between their death and Christ’s Second Coming....
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Re: Eschatology Comparison

Post by Strangelove on Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:24 pm

Looks good to me.

So, Postmil has an Earthly literal golden age of a thousand years BEFORE Christis return? Right...now I know why our post mil friends are getting so worked up about their own efforts to Christianize the world.

About Amil though, I know Adstar has an objection regarding the rigid chronology of the book of Revelation. Maybe he can expan on why this system doesnt work, but...did you mention something before about a spiral structure to the book? Can you explain that a little more sister Zone?

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Re: Eschatology Comparison

Post by Adstar on Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:29 am

Hey Stranglove.

I am a Historic non dispensation premillennialist. a very labour some
description i know.

I have already claimed that i believe the Kingdom started on the Day of Pentecost.
So that claim that we do not believe the Kingdom will start until after the
return of the Messiah Jesus is not correct as far as i am concerned. Also i
have been challenged by many who claim that Premillennialism is a recent
development, this is also wrong. Premillennialism was a widely held belief
among Christians before the catholic church became founded, but it had a
different name then, it was called chillastic teaching.

I got this from an eastern outhodox site.

http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/end/chiliasm.shtml

I suggest you have a read,


Chiliastic views in antiquity were spread chiefly among heretics. The Second Ecumenical Council in 381 AD., condemning the heretic Apollinarius, condemned his teaching about the thousand-year Kingdom of Christ. To put a stop to further attempts at introducing this teaching, the Fathers of the Council inserted into the Creed the words about Christ: "His Kingdom shall have no end." In other
words, when Christ's reign begins there will be no interruptions in His eternal
Kingdom.


Being condemned as a heretic by the harlot Eastern Orthodox church is a badge of honour for me.


The coming to worldly power with the deceiver Constantine needed the literal
teaching of the physical coming of the Messiah Jesus to be undermined and all references to it in the bible needed to be transformed by "spiritual?"
interpretation to show that the catholic church was the fulfilment of the
prophecy. To show that tribulation ended when the harlot catholic church took
control of the world with her husband Constantine.





Do you know that around the year 1000 ad there was a very strong belief that the
end was going to happen and the final judgement was going to happen. This is
logical because at the time they still believed in a literal 1000 year reign of
Jesus with the saints. Because they had been told through
"spiritual?" interpretation that the reign of Jesus started on the
day of Pentecost they believed that the saints had been ruling the world for
all that time and the time had come for the final judgement. Of course no such
judgement came so the 1000 years had to be "spiritualised?" as well.
It became a very long time. This made the book of Revelation of no practical
use for Christians.





The protestant rebellion was not initially a full break from Catholicism. luther
was a catholic who wanted reform, not a person wanting to form a new religion.
But because the catholic church did not allow for any dissent, luther was
forced to break away. But breaking away did not mean he and others rejected all
the teachings of the catholic church. The blessing of the break was that the
Word of God was liberated from the clutches of the catholic church and it
gradually became available to the common man so that men could read the Word
direct from God rather then be duped by false teachers.





Many unbiblical catholic like teachings exist today in most protestant churches. A
simple example of this is acceptance of the Sunday Sabbath, a catholic
invention, also the acceptance of justifiable war, another catholic invention. AMillennialism is also a catholic hangover created to show that the catholic church was the worldly manifestation of the ruling saints foretold in the book of Revelation.





Another problem i face when discussing this thing is people do not understand the difference between the two major premillennialism. I am diametrically opposed to
dispensational pre-trib rapture premillennialism. But unfortunately that is the
one that is getting all the press ATM. Most people do not even know that
Historical non-dispensational premillennialism exists.




All Praise The Ancient Of Days

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Re: Eschatology Comparison

Post by Hammer on Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:48 am

Pre-trib, pre-mill is the most popular eschatology among those making the most noise. It looks silly all that time, even in the above graph that shows two second-comings. Maybe they should fix their grammar and speak of a third coming?

I think it is on the decline. Rising in popularity in the wake of the creation of Israel, and peaking in the late 1980s, it's hard to keep up that "the rapture is any second" attitude for decades, especially after being made a fool of so many times with so many (widely believed) failed predictions. But, it's still is popular enough to drag us into middle-east wars for Israel.

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Re: Eschatology Comparison

Post by Angela53510 on Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:32 am

I used to go to Pre-trib Pre-mill churches. Anyone who did not believe this, was considered a "heretic." I stayed quietly in the closet, and finally, a few years back, in theology class had some good talks with my prof, who was amill.  

I read Kim Riddlebarger's book, "Case for Amillennialism" and it was like I finally came home. Since then, I have been very proud that I have only believed in Amill, although I was forced to hide my beliefs. It is hard to believe that whole denominations want to send you to hell for your view of eschatology.  I would think we should save hell for those who do not believe in Jesus, not for end times views!

Going to spend more time reading all the links in this post. 

As for being Left Behind, well, the Greek just doesn't support it. Too bad it isn't that clear in the English. Well, for some people!
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Re: Eschatology Comparison

Post by Manny Clay on Mon May 26, 2014 1:06 pm

Revelation is not a chronological book.  It follows a similar pattern laid out in the Book of Daniel who along with John were greatly beloved.  in Daniel we are made aware that Medo-Persia and Greece are seen as Silver and Bronze in one vision and as a Ram with two horns and a great he Goat with a notable horn between his eyes in another.  We further see the future of the great he Goat with a notable horn then sprout four horns ending with the horns of North and South.  

Revelation is broken down first into a twice told story.  The first is 1 - 11.  The second 12 - 22.  At the end of the 1st John is told he must prophesy again...  Moreover, this division of the Book is seen again by the things repeated such as the 144,000 of chapters 7 and 14, the mountains and islands being no more in chapters 6, and 16.     

Chapters 1 - 3 constitute the 1st vision of the first set, the 7 churches, the church from Pentecost thru the last day as Jesus said, "This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached...then shall the end come. 

The 2nd vision is contained within chapters 4 -6 and deals with the 7 seals.  The vision begins with God on the throne (4)and the Lamb returning at His ascension (5)The idea expressed in (6) is judgment beginning at the house of God -- the 4 horsemen (See this very same principle in Ezekiel 14:12 - 21.  It closely parallels Matthew 24:4 - 8.  The vision ends with the last day, the great day of the Lamb's wrath when no man can stand. 

The 3rd vision is chapters 7 -11 and deals with the 7 trumpets, ending with the last trump of I Corinth 15 when we are changed.  Judgment follows directly thereafter.  Christ is seen in (chapter 10 as the angel who lifts up His hands saying there should be time no longer, or delay no longer as only He had been given that of the Father.  

The 4th vision contains the 1st vision of the second set and is seen in chapters 12 - 14 which depicts the ascension of Christ, the manchild caught up to God's throne where He rules.  Satan, the accuser of the brethren is cast out as the Lamb of God's redemptive blood has now been shed making an end of sin and guilt.  The devil now goes about on earth as a roaring lion but he is chained in that he cannot deceive those who are elected unto salvation as Jesus told us the very elect would be deceived if it were possible.  Christ returns at the last day as the reaper of the wheat which as Matthew 24  says is gathered into His garner while the chaff is burned having the same meaning as these grapes of wrath. 

As an aside please notice Isaiah 9:6, 7 where concerning the increase of His [Christ's] Kingdom or government there is no end.  This takes place while Christ is seated on the throne of His father, David. 
This cannot be on earth from Jerusalem as all others would have us believe because 'they' tell us when Satan is loosed after the 1000 years he convinces most to revolt against Christ and switch allegiance to him.  How does this square with of the increase of Christ's government not having an end?  Secondly, Luke 1:31 - 33 tells us Jesus will be given the throne of is father, David and of His kingdom there shall be no end.  An unprejudiced reading of Acts 2:29 - 36 makes it abundantly clear that Jesus is seated on David's throne and ruling in heaven ever since His ascension.  Lastly, from Isaiah and Luke we also see that the elect are eternally secure as it is impossible for Christ's government to suffer the loss of subjects.  

The 5th vision is chapters 15, 16 which have to do with the 7 bowls.  Chapter 16 ends at the last day where it is uttered , it is done.   

The 6th vision is chapters 17 - 19 and ends with the return of Christ and the eternal torment of final Antichrist and final False Prophet.    

The 7th and last vision is chapters 20 - 22 which begins with the binding of Satan, that is the strongman whereby his house of subjects is plundered as Jesus is given all power and authority.  The vision ends with the casting of Satan into the Lake of Fire, the judgment of the just and unjust, and the filling of the Lake of Fire and the New Earth.

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