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Re: Talmudism

Post by ada on Sun May 08, 2011 5:48 pm

Maimonides Mishnah Torah, Chapter 10 English Translation,
states concerning Jesus Christ:


It is a mitzvah [religious duty; ARC], however, to eradicate Jewish traitors, minnim, and apikorsim, and to cause them to descend to the pit of destruction, since they cause difficulty to the Jews and sway the people away from God, as did Jesus of Nazareth and his students, and Tzadok, Baithos, and their students. May the name of the wicked rot.

read it on chabad.org: Halacha 1
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Re: Talmudism

Post by ada on Sun May 08, 2011 6:01 pm


Since when are only jewish sources reliable?
You know its hard to find a complete online version
of the talmud and the zohar which is not crippled,do you?

If you think that the book for instance

http://www.talmudunmasked.com/

and the above excerpt to harm Christians directly
is wrong its your turn to disprove it. S i m p l e z !
So long this it is fact or would you say our christian brothers
are just claiming their opinion.This is laughable and you know it.

And i show you more if you like. No problem at all.
What is this site about? Controlled opposition?
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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Sun May 08, 2011 6:25 pm

ada wrote:Since when are only jewish sources reliable?

I never said that. Jewish sources can be used AGAINST THEIR OWN, is the point.

ada wrote:You know its hard to find a complete online version
of the talmud and the zohar which is not crippled,do you?

Extremely hard I know. So if you cant find the quote in the edition you have and you cant find a jewish source quoting it then forget it.

ada wrote:If you think that the book for instance

http://www.talmudunmasked.com/

and the above excerpt to harm Christians directly
is wrong its your turn to disprove it. S i m p l e z !
So long this it is fact or would you say our christian brothers
are just claiming their opinion.This is laughable and you know it.

I dont think its wrong. I think its true. I have no need to disprove it but it cant be used unless its admitted to either by the talmud itself or respected jewish scholars. Your site used the 17th century Amsterdam uncensored edition of the talmud. I'd love to get my hands on it but its just not possible.

ada wrote:And i show you more if you like. No problem at all.
What is this site about? Controlled opposition?

This site is about verified, documented truth. Show me as much as you want but make sure its a SOLID quote.

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Sun May 08, 2011 6:26 pm

ada wrote:Maimonides Mishnah Torah, Chapter 10 English Translation,
states concerning Jesus Christ:


It is a mitzvah [religious duty; ARC], however, to eradicate Jewish traitors, minnim, and apikorsim, and to cause them to descend to the pit of destruction, since they cause difficulty to the Jews and sway the people away from God, as did Jesus of Nazareth and his students, and Tzadok, Baithos, and their students. May the name of the wicked rot.

read it on chabad.org: Halacha 1

MUCH BETTER!!

See? Thats what we need. Very Happy

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Do you know the Torah?

Post by ada on Sun May 08, 2011 9:35 pm

Do you know what the torah is? I thought i knew..;the torah are the five books of Mose and that there
is an OT for the jews as we know it.Oh folks how wrong i was.
Here is the true story about how to make the once simple teaching hard to grasp for most of mankind.
Except for a small elite group called rabbis. So next time, ask your rabbi.We are supposed to beg them for help
and clarification and if you believe it or not. God too.



Torah





Level: Basic

• Torah in the narrowest sense refers to the first five books of the Bible
• In a broader sense, Torah includes all Jewish law and tradition
• Torah was given to Moses in written form with oral commentary
• The oral component is now written in the Talmud
• There are additional important writings



The
word "Torah" is a tricky one, because it can mean different things in
different contexts.
In its most limited sense, "Torah" refers to the
Five Books of Moses:
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. But the word
"torah" can also be used to refer to the entire Jewish bible (the body
of scripture known to non-Jews as the Old Testament and to Jews as the
Tanakh or Written Torah), or in its broadest sense, to the whole body of
Jewish law and teachings.

Written Torah




To Jews, there is no "Old Testament." The books that Christians call
the New Testament are not part of Jewish scripture.
The so-called Old
Testament is known to us as Written Torah or the Tanakh.
This is a list of the books of Written Torah, in the order in which
they appear in Jewish translations, with the Hebrew name of the book, a
translation of the Hebrew name (where it is not the same as the English
name), and English names of the books (where it is not the same as the
Hebrew name). The Hebrew names of the first five books are derived from
the first few words of the book. The text of each book is more or less
the same in Jewish translations as what you see in Christian bibles,
although there are some occasional, slight differences in the numbering
of verses and there are some significant differences in the
translations.

TORAH (The Law):

  • Bereishith (In the beginning...) (Genesis)
  • Shemoth (The names...) (Exodus)
  • Vayiqra (And He called...) (Leviticus)
  • Bamidbar (In the wilderness...) (Numbers)
  • Devarim (The words...) (Deuteronomy)

NEVI'IM (The Prophets):

  • Yehoshua (Joshua)
  • Shoftim (Judges)
...
KETHUVIM (The Writings):

  • Tehillim (Psalms)
  • Mishlei (Proverbs)
  • Iyov (Job)
...



Torah Scrolls




The
scriptures that we use in services are written on parchment scrolls.
They are always hand-written, in attractive Hebrew calligraphy with
"crowns" (crows-foot-like marks coming up from the upper points) on many
of the letters. This style of writing is known as STA"M (an abbreviation for "Sifrei Torah, Tefillin and Mezuzot,"
which is where you will see that style of writing). For more
information about the STA"M alphabet, including illustrations and
relevant rules, see Hebrew Alphabet used in writing STA"M.
You
are not supposed to touch the parchment on these scrolls; some say
because they are too holy; some say because the parchment, made from
animal skins, is a source of ritual defilement; others say because your
fingers' sweat has acids that will damage the parchment over time.
Instead, you follow the text with a pointer, called a Yad. "Yad" means
"hand" in Hebrew, and the pointer usually is in the shape of a hand with
a pointing index finger (I always find this incredibly amusing). The
scrolls are kept covered with fabric, and often ornamented with silver
crowns on the handles of the scrolls and a silver breastplate on the
front.



...

Oral Torah: The Talmud




In
addition to the written scriptures we have an "Oral Torah," a tradition
explaining what the above scriptures mean and how to interpret them and
apply the Laws. Orthodox Jews believe G-d taught the Oral Torah to Moses,
and he taught it to others, down to the present day. This tradition was
maintained only in oral form until about the 2d century C.E., when the oral law was compiled and written down in a document called the Mishnah.
Over the next few centuries, additional commentaries elaborating on the
Mishnah were written down in Jerusalem and Babylon. These additional
commentaries are known as the Gemara. The Gemara and the Mishnah
together are known as the Talmud. This was completed in the 5th century C.E.
There are actually two Talmuds: the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian
Talmud. The Babylonian Talmud is more comprehensive, and is the one
most people mean if they just say "the Talmud" without specifying which
one.
There have been additional commentaries on the Talmud by such noted Jewish scholars as Rashi and Rambam.
Adin Steinsaltz is currently preparing a new edition of the Talmud,
with his own commentary supplementing the Mishnah, Gemara, and Rashi
commentaries.
The Talmud is not easy to read. It reminds me of someone else's class
notes for a college lecture you never attended. There are often gaps in
the reasoning where it is assumed that you already know what they are
talking about, and concepts are often expressed in a sort of shorthand.
Biblical verses that support a teaching are often referenced by only two
or three words. The Talmud preserves a variety of views on every issue,
and does not always clearly identify which view is the accepted one.

...


So the Talmud is part of the torah!!
If an expert next time says the torah is above the talmud you know what it means..


http://www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm
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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Mon May 09, 2011 1:39 pm

"How do the halachic renderings of a gadol become transformed into a permanent part of the of the Torah? Horav Yehudah Ades explains that this is part of the dictum, 'Lo baShomayin hee.' 'The Torah is not in Heaven.' Once it has been handed down to man, the rulings rendered by the gedolei Torah (Council of Rabbis) become a permanent part of Torah itself. Indeed, even in Heaven the rulings follow those rendered by the gedolei ha' Torah."

- Rabbi A. Lieb Scheinbaum, Hebrew Academy of Cleveland. 21 Shevat 5764.

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Re: Talmudism

Post by ada on Mon May 09, 2011 4:24 pm

The Theory of Jewish Inherent Superiority

I. The Tanya


In the Tanya chapter 1 (page 5b) it is written:
"The explanation of this matter is according to what the
Rabbi Chaim Vital OBM wrote…that
every Jew, whether he is righteous or wicked, has two souls, as it
says, ’And the souls I have made’ -- that is, two souls: one soul from
the side of the klipa and Satan’s camp… also naturally good character
traits that are found in every Jew, such as mercifulness and charitable
deeds, stem from it, for in the Jew, the soul of this klipa comes from
klipat noga which also contains good…But it is not the case concerning
Gentile souls, for they stem from other impure klipot which contain no
good…and the second soul of the Jew is surely part of G-d on high…"




In the end of chapter 6 it is written: "The klipot are divided into two
levels…the lower level consists of three impure and completely evil
klipot which contain no good whatsoever…from there the souls of the
Gentiles are influenced and drawn, as are the bodies and the souls of
all impure animals which are forbidden to eat…However, the vital
animalistic soul in the Jews, which stems from the klipa…and the souls
of pure animals, beasts, birds, and fish which are permitted to eat…are
influenced and drawn from the second level of the klipot…which is called
klipat noga…and the majority of it is evil, combined with a slight
amount of good…"

...

The opinion of the Zohar on this subject is crystal-clear, unlike the
words of the "Tif’eret Yisrael" and Rabbi Tzvi Chiut. In "Raya Mehemna"
on the portion of Pinchas, page 238b it is written: "’And G-d said: let
us make man’…that is, ’let us make mankind in our image, after our
likeness,’ and the rabbis established that there is no ’man’ except for
the Jews, as it states: ’But you My flock, the flock of My pasture, you
are men’ -- You are men and not the other nations, and because of this
’let Israel rejoice in Him who made them’."
(All citations from the
Zohar are according to the version in which the commentary "Or Yakar" by
Rabbi Moshe Cordovero appears, printed according to a manuscript 400
years old (excluding parts that have yet to be published in this
edition). Rabbi Eliyahu Di Vidas OBM, a student of Rabbi Moshe Cordovero, wrote
in the end of his introduction to the well known book of the Ramak,
"Reshit Chochma": "In most passages of the Zohar one may find many
differences between the printed edition and ours. However, our version
was proofread according to the hand-written manuscripts here in Safad,
which are highly accurate.")

On the portion of Yitro (page 86a)
it is written: "Rabbi Shimon taught: Israel merited that G-d called them
’men,’ as it is written ’But you My flock, the flock of My pasture, you
are men,’ ’If any man of you brings an offering.’ Why are they called
’men’? For it is written ’And you who cling to the Lord your G-d’ -- you
and not the other nations, and because of this ’you are men’ -- you are
called men…" And the Ramak OBM wrote
on this in his commentary "Or Yakar" (volume 8, page 214): "…G-d
testified for the Jews that they cling to the secret of nobility and the
supreme form which is called ’man,’ as it is said, "If any man of you
bring an offering," which shows that you [the Jews] are ’men’ and the
nations are not ’men,’ and this explanation is necessarily derived from
the verse, ’But you My flock, the flock of My pasture, you are men,’ the
explanation of which apparently is: you are called ’men’ and not the
nations of the world. From there we learn what ’if any man of you bring
an offering’ means -- and this is what these two verses teach us. So he
testified that this level cannot be achieved by any human being except
the Jews alone…"



incredible:you can read more @ask the rabbi
http://www.yeshiva.org.il/ask/eng/default.aspx?srch=1&q=Chaim Vital OBM wrote
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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Mon May 09, 2011 4:37 pm

Excellent.

And on yeshiva.org a bona fide Jewish site.

Good work ada.

See, stuff like that we dont even need to go and source it. Easy.

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Mon May 09, 2011 7:21 pm

"I maintain that in three Fables of Aesop there is more wisdom to be found than in all the books of Talmudists and Rabbis ... Should someone think I am saying too much, I am not saying too much - but too little! For I see in their writings how they curse us Goyim and wish us evil in their schools and prayers ... Thus they call Him (Jesus) the child of a whore and His mother, Mary, a whore, whom she had in adultery ... Reluctantly I must speak so coarsely in opposing the Devil..."

- Martin Luther

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Tue May 10, 2011 11:17 am

"Surely it has been taught: It was said of R. Eleazar b. Dordia that he did not leave out any harlot in the world without coming to her. Once, on hearing that there was a certain harlot in one of the towns by the sea who accepted a purse of denarii for her hire, he took a purse of denarii and crossed seven rivers for her sake."

Babylonian Talmud: Tractate ‘Abodah Zarah' - Folio 17a

Oh the righteous rabbis....

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Tue May 10, 2011 11:21 am

"It applies to the withholding of a labourer's wage. One Cuthean from another, or a Cuthean from an Israelite is forbidden, but an Israelite from a Cuthean is permitted."

Footnote #
33: 'Cuthean' (Samaritan) was here substituted by the censor for the original goy (heathen).

Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sanhedrin - Folio 57a

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Tue May 10, 2011 11:29 am

"...all the charity and kindness that the heathen do is counted sin to them, because they only do it in order that their dominion may be prolonged.."

BT Baba Bathra 10b

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Tue May 10, 2011 12:53 pm

"He who invites a heathen into his house and attends to him, causes his children to go into exile"

Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sanhedrin - Folio 104a

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Tue May 10, 2011 1:00 pm

...as it was taught: 'Where a suit arises between an Israelite and a heathen, if you can justify the former according to the laws of Israel, justify him and say: 'This is our law'; so also if you can justify him by the laws of the heathens justify him and say [to the other party:] 'This is your law'; but if this can not be done, we use subterfuges to circumvent him.

Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Baba Kamma - Folio 113a

In other words...it is permissible to cheat a gentile in court. Shocked

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Tue May 10, 2011 2:14 pm

"The Jew by his source and in his very essence is entirely good. The goy, by his source and in his very essence, is completely evil. This is not simply a matter of religious distinction, but rather of two completely different species."

- Rabbi Saadya Grama of Beth Medrash Govoha, "the Lakewood yeshiva," a renowned Talmudic academy located in Lakewood, New Jersey, in his book Romemut Yisrael Ufarashat Hagalut ("Jewish Superiority and the Question of Exile," published in 2003)

(Credit: Michael Hoffman - 'Judaism Discovered')

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Tue May 10, 2011 2:17 pm

'The difference between a Jewish soul and the souls of non-Jews-all of them in all different levels-is greater and deeper than the difference between a human soul and the souls of cattle.'

- Rabbi Kook the Elder, the revered father of the messianic tendency in Jewish fundamentalism.

(Credit: Michael Hoffman - 'Judaism Discovered')

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Tue May 10, 2011 2:43 pm

...one who cohabits with a heathen woman is liable. to punishment on account of Nashga. When Rabin came, he said: On account of Nashgaz, i.e., niddah, shifhah, goyyah and zonah (Menstrual filth, slaves, heathens, whores)

Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sanhedrin - Folio 82a

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Tue May 10, 2011 4:25 pm

" ... the scandalous passages indeed refer not to some other figure of ancient times but to the famous Jesus of Nazareth. What exactly is so scandalous? How about Jesus punished in Hell for eternity by being made to sit in a cauldron of boiling excrement? That image appears in early manuscripts of the Babylonian Talmud, as does a brief account of Jesus' trial and execution-not by the Romans but by the Jewish high court, the Sanhedrin. The Jewish community ... has been content to let them remain obscure and unknown .. .it seems fair to say now ...t hat the Talmud is every bit as offensive to Christians as the Gospels are to Jews. The Talmud's scattered portrait of Jesus unapologetically mocks Christian doctrines including the virgin birth and the resurrection."

- David Klinghoffer, "What the Talmud Really Says About Jesus"

(Credit: Michael Hoffman - 'Judaism Discovered')

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Tue May 10, 2011 4:35 pm

'In the opinion of most scholars, the Talmud only refers to
Jesus in a handful of places, and though these references may not reflect the courteous ecumenicism of the modern world, neither are they particularly inflammatory.'


2003, Anti-defamation league 'The Talmud in Anti-Semitic Polemics'

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Re: Talmudism

Post by zone on Tue May 10, 2011 4:38 pm

Strangelove wrote:" ... the scandalous passages indeed refer not to some other figure of ancient times but to the famous Jesus of Nazareth. What exactly is so scandalous? How about Jesus punished in Hell for eternity by being made to sit in a cauldron of boiling excrement? That image appears in early manuscripts of the Babylonian Talmud, as does a brief account of Jesus' trial and execution-not by the Romans but by the Jewish high court, the Sanhedrin. The Jewish community ... has been content to let them remain obscure and unknown .. .it seems fair to say now ...t hat the Talmud is every bit as offensive to Christians as the Gospels are to Jews. The Talmud's scattered portrait of Jesus unapologetically mocks Christian doctrines including the virgin birth and the resurrection."

- David Klinghoffer, "What the Talmud Really Says About Jesus"

(Credit: Michael Hoffman - 'Judaism Discovered')
how they must despise michael.
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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Tue May 10, 2011 6:13 pm

Our Rabbis taught: In the case of a male child, a young one is not regarded as on a par with an old one; but a young beast is treated as an old one. What is meant by this? — Rab said: Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that. What is the basis of their dispute? — Rab maintains that only he who is able to engage in sexual intercourse, may, as the passive subject of pederasty throw guilt [upon the active offender]; whilst he who is unable to engage in sexual intercourse cannot be a passive subject of pederasty [in that respect]

BT Sanhedrin 54b

Translation:

..... a child less than nine years old cannot be the object of
sodomy" (even if he has been sodomized)


No

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Tue May 10, 2011 6:21 pm



Here it is direct from the Steinsaltz Edition of the talmud. Mysteriously unfinished edition and now out of print.

Steinsaltz who is now the leader of the revived Sanhedrin.

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Tue May 10, 2011 7:52 pm

Raba said, It means this: When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this [3 years old], it is as if one puts the finger into the eye...

BT Kethuboth 11b

"as if one puts the finger into the eye" meaning her hymen will eventually heal and it's as if it never happened.

Absolutely disgraceful.

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Re: Talmudism

Post by zone on Tue May 10, 2011 8:22 pm

Strangelove wrote:Our Rabbis taught: In the case of a male child, a young one is not regarded as on a par with an old one; but a young beast is treated as an old one. What is meant by this? — Rab said: Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that. What is the basis of their dispute? — Rab maintains that only he who is able to engage in sexual intercourse, may, as the passive subject of pederasty throw guilt [upon the active offender]; whilst he who is unable to engage in sexual intercourse cannot be a passive subject of pederasty [in that respect]

BT Sanhedrin 54b

Translation:

..... a child less than nine years old cannot be the object of
sodomy" (even if he has been sodomized)


No

Romans 1:28
Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
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Re: Talmudism

Post by zone on Tue May 10, 2011 8:26 pm

Strangelove wrote:Raba said, It means this: When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this [3 years old], it is as if one puts the finger into the eye...

BT Kethuboth 11b

"as if one puts the finger into the eye" meaning her hymen will eventually heal and it's as if it never happened.

Absolutely disgraceful.
but you'll have your head chopped off for tearing the leg off a chicken.


what i abhor and what frankly enrages me is they try to connect this stuff to moses.
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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Tue May 10, 2011 8:43 pm

"If a Jew needs a liver, can you take the liver of an innocent non-Jew passing by to save him? The Torah would probably permit that. Jewish life has an infinite value. There is something infinitely more holy and unique about Jewish life than non-Jewish life."

- Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Wed May 11, 2011 8:07 am

...the graves of idolaters do not impart levitical uncleanness by an ohel,1 for it is said, And ye My sheep the sheep of My pasture, are men;2 you are called men3 but the idolaters are not called men.

Footnote #3: ...only an Israelite who, as a worshipper of the true God, can be said to have been like Adam created in the image of God. (Cf. Gen. I, 27 and V, I, where the Heb. text has in each case Adam for 'man'). Idol worshippers having marred the Divine image forfeit all claim to this appelation. V. also B.M. Sonc. ed. p. 651, n. 6].

Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Yebamoth - Folio 61a

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Wed May 11, 2011 11:49 am

"Kapparot (Hebrew: כפרות‎, Ashkenazi pronunciation, Kapparos) is a controversial Jewish ritual practiced by some Jews on the eve of Yom Kippur. The person swings a live chicken or a bundle of coins over one's head three times, symbolically transferring one's sins to the chicken or coins. The chicken is then slaughtered and donated to the poor for consumption at the pre-fast meal."

Kapparot - WIKI

Sins transferred to....a......chicken?

Oh boy.

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Wed May 11, 2011 12:01 pm

"Judaism is Babylonian paganism. One cannot remove paganism from Judaism, there would be nothing remaining sufficient to sustain a systematic theology."

- Michael Hoffman 'Judaism Discovered' pp 518

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Re: Talmudism

Post by Strangelove on Wed May 11, 2011 12:39 pm

..so-called kelipah and sitra achra, wherefrom are derived the souls of the gentiles who work for themselves alone..

Likutei Amarim Tanya - CH 19

[a completely righteous man] utterly despises the pleasures of this world, finding no enjoyment in human pleasures of merely gratifying the physical appetites, instead of [seeking] the service of G-d, inasmuch as they are derived from and originate in the kelipah and sitra achra; for whatever is of the sitra achra is hated by the perfectly righteous man with an absolute hatred, by reason of his great love of G-d and of His Holiness with profuse affection and delight and superlative devotion...

Likutei Amarim Tanya CH 10

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Re: Talmudism

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