Starting a discussion with a Mormon

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Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by Adstar on Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:13 am

Hello all

I am about to start a PM discussion with a Mormon and i am looking for ideas. I would really like to leave no stone unturned.

So if you have thorughts and resources please share.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by zone on Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:44 am

hi adstar

here are a few sites by EX- MORMONS.

http://www.truthandgrace.com/exmormons.htm

http://www.exmormonsforjesus.org/index.html

http://www.exmormon.org/stories.htm

http://www.mormoncurtain.com/

Bless you for your efforts, Adstar
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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by Adstar on Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:39 am

zone wrote:hi adstar

here are a few sites by EX- MORMONS.

http://www.truthandgrace.com/exmormons.htm

http://www.exmormonsforjesus.org/index.html

http://www.exmormon.org/stories.htm

http://www.mormoncurtain.com/

Bless you for your efforts, Adstar

Thanks for posting this. But i am looking for
points in regard to mormon teachings and how they are wrong. Most of what i
read in your links are testimonials about experiences of ex mormons.


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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by KingdomSeeker on Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:48 am

Hey Adstar,

Wonder if this will help any?

http://www.bible.ca/mor-questions.htm

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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by Adstar on Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:30 am

KingdomSeeker wrote:Hey Adstar,

Wonder if this will help any?

http://www.bible.ca/mor-questions.htm

Thats more like it. Thanks KingdomSeeker. Very Happy



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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by KingdomSeeker on Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:22 am

Very Happy You're Welcome.

What type O'mormon is he? Standard LDS? Reformed? Church of Christ?(who are the LEAST mormon of the the mormon)

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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by zone on Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:07 am

Adstar wrote:

Thanks for posting this. But i am looking for
points in regard to mormon teachings and how they are wrong. Most of what i
read in your links are testimonials about experiences of ex mormons.


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LOL!
as in:
Key #3 How are you saved in Mormonism?
1) Keep all the Commandments all the time / Stop Sinning
2) Believe in the God and Christ of Mormonism – (Eternal Progression)
3) Be a member of the Mormon Church
4) Testimony – Believe in the sources of truth
a. Believe in Joseph Smith as a prophet
b. Believe that the Book of Mormon is true
c. Believe that the Mormon Church is true
d. Believe that the Church is led by a true prophet
e. Participate in the Temple Ordinances
f. Serve a mission
5) Be polygamous – (No longer a requirement for this life – still in D&C 132)
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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by zone on Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:20 am

just reading

Ethan Smith (1762-1849)
A View of the Hebrews...
1st ed., Poultney, NY, 1823


Ethan Smith being the crackpot Joseph Smith plagiarized from...LOL!

ethan smith wrote basically the same Ten Lost Tribes (Brit/Am-Israel) junk we see today among so many....(AoG too).

i'll let ya know what it says.
http://olivercowdery.com/texts/ethn1823.htm


Last edited by zone on Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by Strangelove on Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:21 am

MOVED TO OTHER RELIGIONS

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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by Timotheos on Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:07 pm

I think:
First, be a friend. Listen to what they have to say. Discuss the truth kindly. Gently ask questions to lead them to the truth. How do you know that Smith is prophet? What so you mean by...? How do you know xyz is true? What do you think about Jesus of Nazareth? Listen carefully and kindly to what the other person has to say. Be a friend even if they reject your message.
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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by superdave5221 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:34 pm

KingdomSeeker wrote:Very Happy You're Welcome.

What type O'mormon is he? Standard LDS? Reformed? Church of Christ?(who are the LEAST mormon of the the mormon)

In what way is the Church of Christ Mormon?



The Church of Christ is an ecumenical movement that is an offshoot of the Presbyterians. They believe that the bible is the last word and standard in which to live life and a guide to santification through the power of Holy Spirit. They also believe that God was revealed fully through His Son Jesus Christ, and that the bible canon is the final revelation of God's word.

The Mormons believe the bible to be secondary to the book of Mormon, D&C, and the Pearl of Great Price. They believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet who revealed additional truths from God and that God continues to reveal Himself through latter day prophets. The Mormons have many unorthodox and unbiblical beliefs that are based on this "latter day revelation".

I see nothing but contrasts between COC and Mormons, and little similarity at all.

If you want to throw them into the Mormon camp because of their belief in the need for water baptism, then, based on your classification scheme, the entire Christian world was Mormon up until the teachings of Zwingli in the sixteenth century.

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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by zone on Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:20 pm

superdave, the CoC is not mormon.

we are to be baptised by water.

love zone.
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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by superdave5221 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:11 pm

zone wrote:superdave, the CoC is not mormon.

we are to be baptised by water.

love zone.

Thanks Zone! And top of the morning to you!!Shocked

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding out there about CoC. To begin with, each congregation is self governing. We are not told what to believe by some governing board or ruling body. Jesus Christ is head of His church and He has the final say in all things. Under Jesus, we have a plurality of elders, who are selected by the body, having the qualifications as set forth by Paul in his letters to Timothy. These elders make decisions based on their understanding of God's revealed word found in the bible. These elders are held accountable by a knowlegable congregation, who are educated in the word of God. More importantly, they are held accountable by Jesus Christ Himself.

I don't know what other congregations believe or what they teach, but where I go to church, the teachings come straight from the bible. If that ever changes, there will be an empty seat where I used to sit.

I believe that, as Christians, we were meant to fellowship with other brothers and sisters, and that we need each other to live active, full Christian lives. Believe me, I love everyone here, and I enjoy the fellowship that I have online, but it is not the same as looking into the smiling face and eyes of a fellow Christian on sunday morning, or the self examination that results from participating in communion with one another.

No Christian congregation is perfect, but Christ's spirit that is within us IS perfect. It is this spirit that we share, which results in the love that we have for one another. If we can find a congregation, in which the majority of people agree on those doctrinal issues having eternal consequences, then I believe that it benefits us to participate in loving communion with that group of people. If we are sealed with the indwelling Holy Spirit, and are thus agreed on issues of eternal consequence, having become children of God, then those issues of noneternal consequence, resulting from a lack of discernment, will have little relevance.

Thanks again for your encouragement and friendship.

Love,

Superdave

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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by zone on Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:03 pm

i agree buddy that we need a congregation.

but sound doctrine matters or we'll end up in a cult.
zonest

(whatcha reading right now?)
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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by superdave5221 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:28 pm

zone wrote:i agree buddy that we need a congregation.

but sound doctrine matters or we'll end up in a cult.
zonest

(whatcha reading right now?)

Hey Zone,

Agreed! Sound doctrine is important, as you have seen me defend vigilantly on CC. I have yet to hear of any doctrine being taught in my congregation that is contrary to sound doctrine.

Currently I am continuing my indepth study of the book of John from two different authors, Beasley-Murray, and D.A. Carson. It never ceases to amaze me how much perception and knowledge is packed into each book of the bible. Consider the following nugget as interpreted by D.A. Carson (The Gospel According to John, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids MI, 1991, p. 251) on the relationship between Jesus and the Father in chapter five of John.

The Greek text of verses 19-23 is structured around four gar ('for' or 'because') statements. The first introduces the last clause of v.19. The thought runs like this: It is impossible for the Son to take independent, self-determined action that would set him over against the Father as another God, for all the Son does is both coincident with and coextensive with all that the Father does. 'Perfect Sonship involves perfect identity of will and action with the Father' (Westcott, 1. 189). It follows that separate, self-determined action would be a denial of his sonship. But if the last clause of v. 19 takes the impossibility of the Son operating indepedently and grounds it in the perfection of Jesus' sonship, it also constitutes another oblique claim to deity; for the only one who could conceiveably do whatever the Father does must be as great as the Father, as divine as the Father.

The Jews misunderstood what it meant for Jesus to be "equal" with the Father. It did not mean that Jesus was independent from the Father, but instead, meant that He was wholly dependent on the Father, doing and saying only those things that the Father showed and willed Him to do. Just as we should be wholly dependent on Jesus, to do only those things that He would have us to do. Unfortunately, we do not give ourselves over completely to Jesus, because of sin, and a lack of perfect faith.

Good stuff! I'm sure that you are into some good reading as well! Any suggestions?

superdave

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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by zone on Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:53 pm

superdave5221 wrote:

Hey Zone,

Agreed! Sound doctrine is important, as you have seen me defend vigilantly on CC. I have yet to hear of any doctrine being taught in my congregation that is contrary to sound doctrine.

Currently I am continuing my indepth study of the book of John from two different authors, Beasley-Murray, and D.A. Carson. It never ceases to amaze me how much perception and knowledge is packed into each book of the bible. Consider the following nugget as interpreted by D.A. Carson (The Gospel According to John, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids MI, 1991, p. 251) on the relationship between Jesus and the Father in chapter five of John.

The Greek text of verses 19-23 is structured around four gar ('for' or 'because') statements. The first introduces the last clause of v.19. The thought runs like this: It is impossible for the Son to take independent, self-determined action that would set him over against the Father as another God, for all the Son does is both coincident with and coextensive with all that the Father does. 'Perfect Sonship involves perfect identity of will and action with the Father' (Westcott, 1. 189). It follows that separate, self-determined action would be a denial of his sonship. But if the last clause of v. 19 takes the impossibility of the Son operating indepedently and grounds it in the perfection of Jesus' sonship, it also constitutes another oblique claim to deity; for the only one who could conceiveably do whatever the Father does must be as great as the Father, as divine as the Father.

The Jews misunderstood what it meant for Jesus to be "equal" with the Father. It did not mean that Jesus was independent from the Father, but instead, meant that He was wholly dependent on the Father, doing and saying only those things that the Father showed and willed Him to do. Just as we should be wholly dependent on Jesus, to do only those things that He would have us to do. Unfortunately, we do not give ourselves over completely to Jesus, because of sin, and a lack of perfect faith.

Good stuff! I'm sure that you are into some good reading as well! Any suggestions?

superdave

fascinating

i like Carson. and Eerdman's.

is that Westcott as in Westcott & Hort? i worry about those guys.

the gospel of John is all about Jesus as God. just amazing.

without going into it, thanks to the help of a brother, i have settled on an understanding of the Godhead that satisfies any issues i may have had (i never really did) with the Trinity issue. i don't need to study it or fuss about it, neither do i need to condemn nor uphold trinitarian language whether as reflected in scripture or creeds or any other.

this quote:

But if the last clause of v. 19 takes the impossibility of the Son operating indepedently and grounds it in the perfection of Jesus' sonship, it also constitutes another oblique claim to deity; for the only one who could conceiveably do whatever the Father does must be as great as the Father, as divine as the Father.

makes it as simple as can be.

this part:

The Jews misunderstood what it meant for Jesus to be "equal" with the Father.

is even more important to understand than 'the lack of understanding' the Pharisees had - they knew exactly Who Jesus was claiming to be.

and this:

Unfortunately, we do not give ourselves over completely to Jesus, because of sin, and a lack of perfect faith.

i go further and say we are UNABLE to give ourselves COMPLETELY, because of the sin nature still in our members (our biology makes perfection impossible), and we, NOT ONE, has Perfect FAITH. if perfect faith (PISTIS) means an absolute trust and belief that Jesus is Who He said he was and the promises are certain, that's perfect faith, and thank you Lord for giving it to me.

in the meantime, we still exist in mortal bodies, it's the ALREADY/NOT YET.

if we were able, even after regeneration and the gift of The Spirit, there would have been NO NEED for the Cross....and certainly no need for an High Priest.

wholly dependent is if the key.

re: reading - still really daunted by the Carson series Church/Temple mission book i bought and am going through the bibliography for background.

Dave....NONE of the deep things of the coming glorification and eternity are possible to really understand without the understanding that this temporal realm is NOT THE KINGDOM and never will be....this world is ending, and what is coming is ALL NEW.

more later on reading....

question - how often does your assembly take communion and what elements do they use and what is the ecclesastical order? is it open or closed communion? what signficiance is attributed to the Lord's Table?

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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by superdave5221 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:32 pm

[question - how often does your assembly take communion and what elements do they use and what is the ecclesastical order? is it open or closed communion? what signficiance is attributed to the Lord's Table?

z[/quote]

We take communion every sunday worship service. The elements are unleavened bread and grape juice. I am not sure how the elements are prepared, as they are already present on the table when I arrive.

There are four members who present the communion. One person speaks briefly, (usually 5-10 minutes) on what communion means to him personally, which usually contains readings from the bible, or other religious writers. Another member then presents a prayer which is then followed by presenting the bread to church members. Following this, another member presents a prayer, followed by the distribution of the grape juice (fruit of the vine). The fourth person then presents a prayer and a collection is taken. We have an involvement minister who selects the four members who present the communion on a monthly rotating basis. These members are selected based on their willingness to participate. The prayers are not scripted, but are from the heart of the person praying.

Anyone can participate in the communion, including visitors.

As to the significance, I don't believe that I have ever seen a formal presentation pertaining to this. However, during bible studies, pulpit minister homilies, and other comments of speakers, it is clear that it is seen as a time of self examination, a time of remembering Jesus and his sacrifice for us on the cross, a time of reflection as to our relationship with Jesus and with each other, and a time of renewal and rededication to live a life of service to Christ, and to all people.

For me, it can be very emotional, as I often have tears in my eyes, (hard for a man to admit, lol), as I think of what Jesus did for me, and how ungrateful and selfish I am in comparison. I often think of how unworthy I am, and I ask God to cleanse me of sin, even though I know that Jesus, has already done that. Nevertheless, I go away feeling renewed in spirit and purpose.

Dave

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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by zone on Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:54 pm

thank you SuperDave.

love zone
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Re: Starting a discussion with a Mormon

Post by Strangelove on Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:32 am

I have tried to get into the habit of remembering Christs sacrifice everytime I sit down for a meal.

Works for me,,,as I have no congregation to take communion with really.

(Randy...any ideas?)

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