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Amillennialism

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Amillennialism Empty Amillennialism

Post by zone Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:13 am

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Amillennialism Empty Re: Amillennialism

Post by zone Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:59 am

What's a thousand years among friends?

This is part of the Westminster Conference Series. Dr. Kim Riddlebarger is author of many books including books on Amillennialism. We were honored to have Dr. Riddlebarger visit with us and lecture for a weekend long series on Reformed Ammillennialsim.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=7120617344

TWO THUMBS UP!
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Post by endofallfears Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:10 pm

The view of Ammillennialsim was not held by the church following the writing of the New Testament for several hundred years.

Justin Martyr: "The man of apstasy [Antichrist]...shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christian." (Trypho, cx)

The Pastor (Shepherd) of Hermas: "Happy ye who endure the great tribulation that is coming." (Pastor of Hermas, Vision Second)

"Those, therefore, who continue steadfast, and are put through the fire, will be purified by means of it...Wherefore cease not speaking these things into the ears of the saints. This then is the type of the great tribulation that is yet to come. (Pastor of Hermas, Vision Fourth)

Barnabas: "The final stumbling-block approaches, concerning which it is written, as Enoch says, 'For this end the Lord has cut short the times and the days, that His Beloved may hasten; and He will come to the inheritance.' And the prophet also speaks thus: "Ten kingdoms shall reign upon the earth, and a little king shall rise up after them, who shall subdue under one three of the kings. "...Take heed, lest resting at our ease, as those who are called [of God], we should fall asleep in our sins, and the wicked prince, acquiring power over us, should thrust us away from the kingdom of the Lord." (The Epistle of Barnabas, chapter iv)

Irenaeus: "And they [the ten kings]...shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight." (Against Heresies, V, 26,1)

"But [John] indicates the number of the name [antichrist, 666] now, that when this man comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is." (Against Heresies, V, 30, 4)

Hippolytus: "Now concernig the tribulation of the persecution which is to fall upon the Church from the adversary...That refers to the one thousand two hundred and threescore days [the half of the week] during which the tyrant s to reign and persecute the Church." (Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, pp. 60,61)

Tertullian: "That the beast Antichrist with his false prophet may wage war on the Church of God...Since, then, the Scriptures both indicatet the staes of the last times, and concentrate the harvest of the Christian hope in the very end of the world." (On The Resurrection of the Flesh, xxv; cf. Scoriace, xii)

Just to list a few of the early church fathers. Origen, and also Augustine, tended to allegorize scripture which seems to be the basis of Ammillennialsim. As a hermeneutic, it causes problems in that causes us to lose the historical importance of Scripture, and debate if any of the things we read in Scripture actually happened.
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Post by zone Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:20 am

hi endof.
thank you!

that all may be so....but i don't allegorgize the coming trib: i can see it taking shape.

if the 'reformers' choose to stick to their guns re: the son of perdition being papacy, or just "man", that's fine. i see things a little differently.

not totally familiar with all variations of amill out there, but i'm not accepting any preterist models; nor any all "yet furture" models.

what i'm determining by looking at Scripture is that the Second Advent brings JUST the Day of Judgment, and the New Heavens and New Earth - no GAPS.

love z



Last edited by zone on Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:02 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by zone Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:04 am

also: the Creeds all make it clear.

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
and born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended into hell.
On the third day He rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
From thence He will come to judge the living and the dead.
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Post by Strangelove Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:59 am

Moved to Endtimes Forum

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Post by Strangelove Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:57 pm

(John 12:31) Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Support for the binding of Satan?

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Post by Strangelove Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:05 pm

And here:

(Matthew 12:28) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
(Matthew 12:29) Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
(Matthew 12:30) He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

(Colossians 1:12) Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
(Colossians 1:13) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:


Some more evidence that Christ and the Gospel have bound Satan?

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Amillennialism Empty just who will be reigning from Jerusalem?

Post by zone Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:17 pm

Judaism's view of Jesus
Jews have traditionally seen Jesus as one of a number of false messiahs who have appeared throughout history.[1] Jesus is viewed as having been the most influential, and consequently the most damaging, of all false messiahs.[2] However, since the general Jewish belief is that the Messiah has not yet come and that the Messianic Age is not yet present, the total rejection of Jesus as either messiah or deity in Judaism has never been a central issue for Judaism. At the heart of Judaism are the Torah, its commandments, the Tanakh, and ethical monotheism such as in the Shema — all of which predated Jesus.

Judaism has never accepted any of the claimed fulfillments of prophecy that Christianity attributes to Jesus. Judaism also forbids the worship of a person as a form of idolatry, since the central belief of Judaism is the absolute unity and singularity of God.[3][4]

Jewish eschatology holds that the coming of the Messiah will be associated with a specific series of events that have not yet occurred, including the return of Jews to their homeland and the rebuilding of The Temple, a Messianic Age of peace[5] and understanding during which "the knowledge of God" fills the earth,[6] and since Judaism holds that none of these events occurred during the lifetime of Jesus (nor have they occurred afterwards), he is not a candidate for messiah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism%27s_view_of_Jesus
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Post by Strangelove Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:15 pm

Hi Chingy...

I noticed you are a pre-tribber...

Ever tried amillenialism out for a ride?

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Post by MUSKOKAMAN Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:15 am

Then what's messianic Judaism?

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Post by zone Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:30 pm

a cult for the most part.

judaism and christianity are not compatible. if peeps are talking about Torah (moses & prophets) and Jesus the King of the Jews, fine. but why?

its always been called christianity, and we are not going backwards.
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Post by Strangelove Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:58 pm

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Then what's messianic Judaism?

Mainly law keeping professed Christians that have no answer to Galatians 4:21-31. Very Happy

Possibly crypto jews (judaizers) who join Christian forums to waste our time.

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Post by MUSKOKAMAN Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:58 pm

Galatians 4:21-30 is about verifying all Jews as well as Gentiles as descendants of Abraham yet at the same time giving creedence to the Jews as the chosen race as that is from whom earthly Jesus is descended from (Mary is also a direct descendant of David therefore of Abraham as well)

Does it not say that all peoples shall be blessed in Abraham?

Genesis 18:18
Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

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Post by Strangelove Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:37 am

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Galatians 4:21-30 is about verifying all Jews as well as Gentiles as descendants of Abraham yet at the same time giving creedence to the Jews as the chosen race as that is from whom earthly Jesus is descended from (Mary is also a direct descendant of David therefore of Abraham as well)

Does it not say that all peoples shall be blessed in Abraham?

Genesis 18:18
Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

The passages seem to be mainly about 2 COVENANTS.

I dont really see where creedence to the jews comes into it?

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Post by zone Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:43 pm

Paul clearly states its an allegory about 2 COVENANTS.

anyone claiming to be a jew, claiming to be within the Sinai Covenant Paul made clear will be cast out. it couldn't be simpler.

what Judaism today is, is not even Moses.

be born again and press into the New Covenant, the church, the Israel of God or perish is what it says.

no provision made for anyone outside Jesus. at all.

and Paul wrote that 2000 years ago.
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Post by Strangelove Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:29 pm

But not only did Satan stupefy the senses of mankind, so that with their bodies they buried the
remembrance of the resurrection; but he also managed by various fictions so to corrupt this branch
of doctrine that it at length was lost. Not to mention that even in the days of Paul he began to assail
it (1 Cor. 15), shortly after the Chiliasts arose, who limited the reign of Christ to a thousand
years. This fiction is too puerile to need or to deserve refutation.
Nor do they receive any countenance
from the Apocalypse, from which it is known that they extracted a gloss for their error (Rev. 20:4),
since the thousand years there mentioned refer not to the eternal blessedness of the Church, but
only to the various troubles which await the Church militant in this world. The whole Scripture
proclaims that there will be no end either to the happiness of the elect, or the punishment of the
reprobate. Moreover, in regard to all things which lie beyond our sight, and far transcend the reach
of our intellect, belief must either be founded on the sure oracles of God, or altogether renounced.
Those who assign only a thousand years to the children of God to enjoy the inheritance of future
life, observe not how great an insult they offer to Christ and his kingdom. 509 If they are not to be
clothed with immortality, then Christ himself, into whose glory they shall be transformed, has not
been received into immortal glory; if their blessedness is to have an end, the kingdom of Christ,
on whose solid structure it rests, is temporary. In short, they are either most ignorant of all divine
things or they maliciously aim at subverting the whole grace of God and power of Christ, which cannot have their full effects unless sin is obliterated, death swallowed up, and eternal life fully
renewed. How stupid and frivolous their fear that too much severity will be ascribed to God, if the
reprobate are doomed to eternal punishment, even the blind may see. The Lord, forsooth, will be
unjust if he exclude from his kingdom those who, by their ingratitude shall have rendered themselves
unworthy of it. But their sins are temporary (see Bernard, Epist. 254). I admit it; but then the majesty
of God, and also the justice which they have violated by their sins, are eternal. Justly, therefore,
the memory of their iniquity does not perish. But in this way the punishment will exceed the measure
of the fault. It is intolerable blasphemy to hold the majesty of God in so little estimation, as not to
regard the contempt of it as of greater consequence than the destruction of a single soul. But let us
have done with these triflers, that we may not seem (contrary to what we first observed) to think
their dreams deserving of refutation.


- John Calvin (The Institutes of the Christian Religion pg 611)

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Post by Bro John Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:53 pm

The Present Day Kingdom of Heaven
Where we prove beyond any doubt that the kingdom was not offered, rejected, withdrawn and postponed, but rather declared, rejected, and commenced,  


Should you like to contact me regarding this series I may be reached at manovclay1@gmail.com


Part 1 of TBD
The King/Kingdom Personally Promised 


The Kingdom is personally promised to David in II Samuel 7:8-17 with my emphasis.      
8.  Now therefore so shalt thou [Nathan] say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 
9.  And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. 
10. Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 
11. And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house. 
12. And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 
13. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 
14. I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 
15. But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 
16. And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever. 
17. According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.
Many point to Solomon as the grand fulfillment of this promise.  But that cannot possibly be the case as the house and kingdom are to be established forever.  Even David knew that only Christ could fill this bill. (See Acts 2:29-33) More important eschatologically speaking, David is yet asleep when this kingdom is set up and forever established by God. (See verse 12)  Let me repeat.  When Christ sets up His kingdom David is yet dead in body.  This is a serious blow to my Dispensationalist friends.  They must have David alive as a vice regent, counselor, or at least a worship leader when Jesus sets up His kingdom.  But scripture is clear.  He is dead.    


What does this mean?  Either OT saints will not participate in the 1000 year reign of Christ, (which they do in amillennial eschatology) or the Dispensationalist 4 - phase doctrine of the 1st resurrection of saints is woefully in error (which it must be)  Let what I said sink in.  There cannot be 4 distinct bodily resurrections separated by 3000 years (at this date) for Christ and the saints as Dispensationalists tell us. (Christ, Pre Trib Rapture Saints, Old Testament /Tribulation Saints, and Millennial Saints. There are 2 bodily resurrections and 2 bodily resurrections only; 1 for Christ and 1 for the saints.  From I Corinthians 15 we read this:


22.  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 
23.  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 
24.  Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God,...


The scripture is clear; 1 resurrection for Christ and 1 for the saints AT HIS COMING, NOT COMING(S) and then…...the end when Christ hands over the kingdom to God.  But wait, say my Dispensationalist friends.  This scripture is obviously speaking of the 1000 year millennial reign of Christ.  Friend, how can that be?  When Christ comes then comes the end.  Nothing in between, no resurrections, no comings, no goings………nothing but the end. A question for you:  If this scripture refers to the millennium where did Christ come from in verse 23 just above if it is referring to the last of the Dispensationalist 4 phase 1st resurrection?  Wasn’t He supposed to be seated on His throne in Jerusalem?  Where was He?  Please provide book, chapter, and verse.


The 2 resurrection truth is fully corroborated by Jesus’ own words in John 5, and include all who ever died or will die whether they be #1 Jesus or #2 saint/sinner.       


28.  Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 
29.  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Please notice the singular word; hour, not hour(s).  All in the graves both saved and unsaved come forth in that 1 hour.  The saved are resurrected unto eternal life and the unsaved unto eternal damnation.  This can only happen at the 2nd coming.  Another question for you:  How were the High Priest, and the Sanhedrin to see Jesus leaving His position at the right hand of God and coming on the clouds of heaven if they were not to be resurrected until after a literal 1000 years were fulfilled with Jesus reigning from Jerusalem? (See Mark 14:62)  


Now, once this kingdom is established then the House of the Lord can be built.  (See verse 13)  This follows the model of God with Solomon. (See II Chronicles 1:1, 2:1, and 3:1) Jesus, the greater than Solomon said, I will build my church; not with dead stones hewn from a lifeless rock but with living stones baptized into His body which can no longer die.  (See Zechariah 6:12,13, I Corinthians 3:16,17, 6:19, Ephesians 2:20-22, Hebrews 3:6, and I Peter 2:4,5) Jesus’ house -- whose house are we began to be built on Pentecost after He was glorified--the proof of His having received the kingdom from His Father. (See John 7:39) Jesus was established forever.   
 
Look again at these scriptures describing believers in Christ as making up the Temple of God.  How do some say that the temple of God must be built again of stones and be reestablished in Jerusalem?  Does God move backward?  No, always forward.  Saved believers are the true temple.  Allow me to repeat.  Saved believers are now the true temple of God.  And yes, Jerusalem once was the city of the great king.  Jesus said so. (See Matthew 5:35) But Jesus has moved on to the New Jerusalem which is above, the heavenly.  Peter said so.  (See Hebrews 12:22,23)  And Paul said so.  Why, because Jerusalem was, is now, and will be at the end of time still in bondage with her children. The Jerusalem on earth answers not to Mt. Zion, but rather to Mt. Sinai (See Galatians 4:21-26) Mt. Zion has moved on up to the top of the mountains. (See Isaiah 2:1-3, and Micah 4:1-3) And that’s where we find the New Jerusalem in John’s Book of Revelation. (See Revelation 3:12, 21:2, 9,10) Remember: First we are given the natural and then the spiritual. (See I Corinthians 15:46) Please, do not look back.  
  
Lastly, do you not recall the Word of our Lord to the Samaritan Woman at the Well?  Jesus told her it was not on Jacob’s Mountain nor in the city of Jerusalem that men should worship God -- EVEN BACK THEN.  (See John 4:23,24) From that day forward it was not a where/when or place/time proposition (ie. all males presenting themselves in Jerusalem at the time of the 3 major feasts) but rather a state/how formula of right worship of the Father.  It has moved on from a natural space/time continuum and taken to its true spiritual fulfillment located at the highway intersection of Spirit and Truth high in the heavens.  I hope you will not accuse the apostles, Paul, Peter, and John, of not following your coveted literal - grammatical - historical hermeneutic when they all testified concerning Jerusalem below and the Jerusalem above.  Didn’t Jesus, Himself, tell the disciples that John the Baptist was Elijah who was to come? (See Mark 9:11-13)  And Did he not break your hallowed rule of a literal-grammatical-historical hermeneutic when He stated that John was Elijah?  My friends, the scribes and pharisees immediately began plotting the death of Jesus for breaking their hallowed rule concerning the Sabbath. (See Mark 3:1-6)  But Jesus is Lord of the sabbath just as He is Lord of His Word.  Beware, lest he become angry with you for a continual hardness of heart in failing to believe all what He, the Holy Ghost, and the Apostles wrote concerning the prophecies of the Old Testament.   

TO BE CONTINUED……………………

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Post by CONSPICILLUM Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:58 pm

TLDR. Summarize, please.

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Post by Bro John Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:59 pm

CONSPICILLUM wrote:TLDR. Summarize, please.
forgive me, please.  i am old school.  what does that anagram mean?

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Post by Bro John Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:37 pm

Here is Part 2a of the series.  I am cutting the size down. 

The Present Day Kingdom of Heaven
Where we prove beyond any doubt that the kingdom was not offered, rejected, withdrawn and postponed, but rather declared, rejected, and commenced,  


Should you like to contact me regarding this series I may be reached at manovclay1@gmail.com


Part 2 of TBD
The King/Kingdom Prophesied


Having examined the personal promise given to David regarding the king/kingdom we will now turn our attention to supporting OT prophecies which corroborate the promise.  Before we do, however, allow us a short recap.   As we proved in Part 1, David knew that only Christ could fulfill the prophecy as to the identity of his seed who would sit on his throne. (See Acts 2:29-33).  We also proved from the scripture that David is yet dead in body and asleep at the time this kingdom is set up. (See II Samuel 7:12)  In fact the companion scriptural passage from I Chronicles, chapter 17 is more emphatic.  There it states with my emphasis:


11.  And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 
12.  He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 
13.  I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 
14.  But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore. 

Here, in this second scriptural witness, David is confirmed dead at the time of the kingdom just as he was in II Samuel 7:12.  (See verse 11) Moreover, please notice that we have moved on from David’s kingdom being established through Christ (See II Samuel 7:12,13,16) to the Seed of David [Christ] being settled forever in God’s house and kingdom. (See I Chronicles 17:14) No mention is made anywhere in this passage about David’s throne or kingdom.  No, say the Dispensationalists.  What about the scriptures clearly stating that David will be king over God’s people in the latter days? (See Hosea 3:4,5, Ezekiel 34:24, 37:22-25, and Jeremiah 30:8,9) Which latter days are you speaking of? David is dead when Christ is set up in His kingdom.  It cannot get any simpler than that.  So, it must be that the scripture speaking of David is in actuality speaking of the Son of David, Jesus the Christ.  Again we already have biblical precedent for dispensing with the wayward Dispensationalist  literal-grammatical-historical hermeneutic.  After all, our Lord said that John the Baptist was Elijah. (See Mark 9:11-13)    

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Post by Bro John Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:46 pm

Part 2b of the king/kingdom prophesied

We will now explore two prophecies of the king/kingdom relating to the promise of the king/kingdom.  The first is in Daniel, chapter 7 where we find the following with my emphasis:


13  I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Notice that The Son of Man came with the clouds of heaven not from but to the Ancient of Days.
This is an obvious reference to the Ascension of our Lord Who was received by a cloud out of the sight of the Apostles’ as they watched Him depart into heaven. (See Acts 1:9) Near upon the Son of man entering heaven He is given the everlasting kingdom by God.  This mirrors Jesus’ Words in the Parable of the 10 Pounds in Luke 19:11-27.  The parable begins with a nobleman [Jesus] ready to leave for a far country [heaven] in order to receive a kingdom, and to return. [to earth] (verse 12) He calls his servants [professing Christians] and distributes gifts, talents and instructions to them. (verse 13) His citizens [unbelievers] send a message to him that they will no longer accept his authority. (verse 14) The nobleman having received the kingdom returns to his country. (verse 15) He then immediately begins to reckon with his servants to see if they have been obedient to his previous commands. (verse 16-26) He then reckons with his citizens; those who hated him. (verse 27) This is what will happen at the return of Christ at His 2nd coming.  Judgment will immediately ensue upon His arrival just as I Corinthians 15:21-24 intimates for after His appearing comes the end.  What must be repeated is that Christ was and is now in full possession of the eternal kingdom while still in the far country, that is, heaven; and has been given all power to order and establish it with justice forevermore. (See Isaiah 9:7)


But there is a back story to this parable.  Jesus gave it at that time because being nigh unto Jerusalem many thought that the kingdom should immediately appear. (Luke 19:11) Could that be?  Why, not?  First, the scriptures stated that Jesus had to die.  He must be cut off but not for Himself. The Lamb, the Suffering Servant, was slain from the foundation of the World but manifested in the last days for us according to the counsel and foreknowledge of God as contained in the OT prophecies. (See Isaiah 53:1-12, Daniel 9:26, John 11:47-53, Acts 2:22-24, I Peter 1:17-21, and Revelation 13:8)  Secondly, the kingdom could not come then because Jesus had not yet gone to the far country to receive it.  We will now spend a moment looking at the inspired writings of the Minor Prophet, Zechariah, chapter 9 with my emphasis.  
 
9.  Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Pause with me to imagine the emotions Zechariah must have experienced as he penned this scripture regarding the coming of the long awaited Messiah.  With what trembling must he have ensured that every jot and tittle were made correctly!  What tears of joy must have streamed

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Post by Bro John Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:03 am

Part 2b


What tears of joy must have streamed down his face upon its completion!  I can hear him now as he leaps to his feet rubbing his eyes after laying his quill to rest.  Am I dreaming again he wonders?  No, this is the Word of Lord comes the response.  OUR king is coming, he whispers.  Our KING is coming, he muses as he begins to laugh aloud!  Our king IS COMING, as he breaks out into glorious praise!  After regaining his composure he continues reading but quickly lifts the paper closer to him as he questions whether he is reading correctly due to the wells of water from the tears still clouding his eyesight.  After a moment of reflection he lowers the parchment and his eyes and stares at the floor and with a cracking voice utters, have I faithfully written all?  Yes, comes the reassuring reply.  And as the light begins to fade and the curtain slowly falls I see him first bowing to the earth and then falling to his knees with his heart bursting with childlike trust, love, and thanksgiving and see him mouth the words, Yea, Lord for so it seemed good in thy sight. 


You see my Dispensationist friends, this prophecy concerning the king/kingdom was clear 520 years before the birth of our Lord.  Christ was not to come on a fine steed dressed in full battle array with an unsheathed sword and his face set as a flint against his flesh and blood adversaries. No, says the Holy Spirit.  He came in a lowly manner seated upon an ass and her foal.  He would not break the bruised reed, nor quench the smoking flax.   (See Isaiah 42:1-9, and Matthew 12:15-21) Fine Courtiers and noble ambassadors were not to herald his coming with the sound of trumpets or orations, neither would soldiers accompany him with military standard or high flying banners in his victorious entrance into the city.  Rather, it was the humble believers strawing palm branches in the way with their cries of  “Hosanna to the Son of David”, and the hoarse shouts of Jesus’ band of former fishermen turned fishers of men giving thanks and praise for all God had done by him which made the earth to ring again, so much so that when the pharisees chided Jesus to rebuke His disciples He stated that if they held their peace the very rocks would cry out. (See Matthew 21:1-10, and Luke 19:37-40)  


Jesus was JUST and brought  S-A-L-V-A-T-I-O-N, not from mortal men here below, but from spiritual wickedness in high places.  He came not to unseat Caesar from his throne, but Satan, the Ruler of Darkness from his dominion. He did not come to liberate men’s bodies from a maximum security facility but from the Devil’s House of Bondage.  Christ bound the strong-man in life and crushed his head in death triumphing over him at the cross. Upon His ascension He led captivity captive and gave gifts to men, and at Pentecost He poured out the Holy Ghost. (See Luke 11:13-23, Colossians 2:15, Psalms 68:18, Ephesians 4:8, and Acts 2)


My Dispensationalist friend, there never was a “plan b” with God.  One of the greatest lies of  Dispensationalism is taking an obvious POWERFUL DECLARATION TO BE JOYFULLY RECEIVED and turning it on its head into a mere offer to be accepted or rejected as you see fit. No, the clear fact is Jesus did not offer the Jews the kingdom they were looking for or THEY WOULD HAVE ACCEPTED IT!  No, the king/kingdom that was promised, prophesied and as we shall soon see announced, proclaimed to be at hand, and set up and commenced is not the same kingdom at all; just as Jesus told Pilate.  Yes, He was a king, but no, His kingdom was not of this world. Final Word: Jesus was crucified for claiming to be a king. (See John 18:33-19:22)                      

TO BE CONTINUED……………..

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Post by Bro John Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:16 pm

The Present Day Kingdom of Heaven
Where we prove beyond any doubt that the kingdom was not offered, rejected, withdrawn and postponed, but rather declared, rejected, and commenced.  


Should you like to contact me regarding this series I may be reached at manovclay1@gmail.com


Part 3 of TBD
The King/Kingdom Announced


Having completed our look at the prophesied king/kingdom we now turn our gaze upon its announcement.  Before moving on to this 3rd in the series’ installment we must give two needful reminders gleaned from Part 2.  First, per Jesus’ Parable of the Talents the Nobleman travels to a far country to receive the kingdom and upon his return immediate judgement of servant and citizen follows.  Why?  The kingly reign had occured in the far country; that is, heaven.  Second, Jesus was crucified for being a king.  Please allow me to repeat.  Christ was crucified for being a king.  Please, I implore you to let these things sink down in your ears and meditate on them.


I now place before you what many call “The Annunciation”, the words of the Angel, Gabriel to the virgin, Mary regarding her soon to be born son, taken from Luke, chapter 1 with my emphasis. 


26.  And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 


27.  To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 


28.  And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29.  And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 
30.  And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.


31.  And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 


32.  He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 

33.  And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

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Post by Bro John Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:32 am

Part 3b revised 


I begin by commenting on Luke 1:32.  Recall, please, that the prophetic scripture from Daniel 7:13,14 in conjunction with the corroborating scripture from Acts 1:9,10 (See Part 2) prove that THIS IS THE TIME when the Lord God gave Mary’s Son “the throne of his father, David.”  Remember that Christ came TO the Ancient of Days and not FROM Him. This is crucial to rightly dividing the Word of Truth.  This is confirmed in Revelation chapter 5.   We see Jesus as the slain Lamb of God as well as the Lion of Judah who having prevailed or overcome is permitted to loosen the seals of God’s Book.  Jesus overcame. (Revelation 5:5,6) Please hear His words to the Church of Laodicea in Revelation, chapter 3, with my emphasis. 


21.  To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne


Jesus is on the throne.  He is reigning.  Now, allow me to direct your attention to those whom Christ governs in verse 33. They are not everyone indiscriminately, but “the house of Jacob”.  But why Jacob?  Jacob was a swinder par excellence. (See Genesis 25:26 29=34, and 27:1-38) But when God put forth His finger and touched him, however, he became Israel, a prince with God. (See Genesis 32:24-32)  Jacob is a picture of all who are born from above; sinners turned saints.  The scripture states that he is a Jew which is one inwardly and circumcision is of the heart. (See Romans 2:28,29)  Paul also tells us that not all Israel is Israel. (Romans 9:6)  Lastly, the scriptures declare that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ. (Galatians 3:26-29) So the “House of Jacob'' cannot possibly be made up of unbelieving Jews, nor believing Jews, only. 


Christ rules and reigns over believers, “the house of Jacob forever”.  These are his servants, whether they be Jew or Gentile.  They are the heavenly 24 elders, of which the 12 patriarchs of Israel and the 12 apostles of the Lamb are illustrative along with the twelve gates and the twelve foundations of the heavenly city. (See Revelation 4:4, 9-11, 11:16, 19:4, and 21:9,10) A question for you.  Are you seated with Christ by faith in heavenly places NOW in the New Jerusalem?  (See Ephesians 2:4-7, Galatians 4:21-31,  Hebrews 12:22,23, and Revelation 21:1,2,10)  If so, you are of the House of Jacob, whether ye be Jew or Gentile.  The end result of the citizens in ‘The Parable of Talents’ who hated their Lord and would not submit to his reign was destruction upon his return. The Nobleman did not reign over them.   Likewise, when Christ returns to earth having reigned over the House of Jacob from heaven He will likewise destroy all that hate Him.  


Please know that I do not believe that the Church replaced Israel to their ultimate, and permanent  exclusion. (Romans 11:1-5) No, the purpose of the Jews’ fall was to bring in the Gentiles and the purpose of the Gentiles’ inclusion is to make the remaining Jewish remnant jealous so that they too might attain salvation. (See Romans 11:11-36) There is only one good olive tree and consequently only one people of God.  He hath made of two, Jew and Gentile, one new man, the new creation. (Galatians 6:15, Ephesians, chapter 2, and II Coriinthians 5:16-19)   Yes, there will be a remnant of Jews who will be grafted back in again after the full measure of the Gentiles have been received, but there is no NT warrant whatsoever to believe that a return to Israel to a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem has anything to do with it.  Remember Jesus’ Word to the Samaritan ‘Woman at the Well’ that God would not be worshipped at Jerusalem in the future.  How could He when He moved Jerusalem to heaven and made the new temple from believers?








     


Last edited by Bro John on Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:10 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : i was wrong about 1st month on calendar//revision)

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Post by Bro John Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:12 pm

Part 3c


Allow me to begin a new thread by asking you what year it is?  This is not a trick question by the way.  We see it everywhere whether it be written, printed, or digital. Yes, we see it, as do other western peoples, along with many others where the faith of Christ was once rooted.  But what of Muslim countries, pagans, or the nation of Israel?  They have a different calendar altogether with a different current year.  But, why?  The short answer is they all have a different king.  Allow me to turn back the pages of your Bible to the OT Kings of Judah and Israel.  The scriptures lay out  for us the year they began to reign, their age, and how many years they reigned in different places. (See II Samuel 2:10, I Kings 2:11, 11:42, II Kings 8:17, 14:2, 15:2, 18:2, II Chronicles 25:1, and 33:1) The Bible also records some events on the exact day it occurred. (See II Kings 25:1, II Chronicles 29:3, and Jeremiah 53:4) This principle holds also for the Gentile kings that conquered Judah, and Israel. (See II Kings 24:12, Daniel 1:1,21, 2:1, 9:1, Esther 1:3, and Luke 3:1)  Forgive the number of citations, but I want it to be clear that the Bible kept track of time; by the king and his reign.  We now move forward in time and listen in on a very important question put forth by “Wise Men from the East” found in Matthew, chapter 2 with my emphasis.     


1.  Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 

2.  Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. 

3.  When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. 

4.  And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. 

5.  And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,

6.  And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.


What a wonderful scripture.  But there are some who cannot stomach the words of the Magi and dismiss them with a condescending wave of their hand.  Those magi were magicians, they snidely retort, and worshippers of false gods, to boot.  Really?  If they were truly worshippers of devils, and practitioners of the dark arts pray tell what drove them at great expense to find and worship the true God?  Why would they “rejoice with exceeding great joy”” when they saw the star again going before them after leaving Herod’s court? (See Matthew 2:7-11) If they were such devils why did they obey a warning from God not to return to Herod? (Matthew 2:12)


Friend, the Magi were believers in the One true God, and they were correct in their desire to find and worship Him. The Magi knew He was divine, and so a king.  So did Herod.  Notice he doesn’t ask who it is that is born king of the Jews.  Neither did the scribes need to quote the rest of Micah 5:2 where the Governor that should rule the people of Israel is One “Whose goings forth have been from old, from everlasting.”  They all knew it was the Christ Who was coming to bring life back to the House of David in order to fulfill the scriptures.  So how did the Magi know?  Perhaps they had studied Daniel’s prophecy regarding the timing of the 1st advent of Messiah.  We will exegete that prophecy in our next installment where we hone in on Jesus’ words that the time was then fulfilled and the king/kingdom were at long last at hand.  Or, perhaps, the Wise Men from the East had become acquainted somehow with the prophecy of Balaam, the wicked soothsayer who also prophesied concerning the 1st advent of the Messiah while in a trance.  Here are his words taken from Numbers chapter 24 with my emphasis.

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Post by Bro John Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:13 pm

Part 3d


17.  I will see him, but not now.  I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all of the children of Sheth. 


The Magi from the east were following a Star; the Star out of Jacob.  The sceptre is the king, the reign.  The kingship of Jesus was declared at birth.  This is why we are living in the year of our Lord, Anno Domini, 2021.  While the calendars of people prior to Jesus began when their king ascended the throne and ended with his defeat or death it is not so with Him.  His kingdom is forever.  Jesus has been king since forever.  He will be king forever afterwards.  But we must not forget the biblical principle.  The cross comes before the crown. Note well these scriptures.    

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:1-3) If we suffer with him we shall also reign with him. (Romans 8:14-25) 

This is now the two thousandth, two hundred and twentieth year of His kingship.  But just as the Jews missed the time of their visitation from the King, (and so kept their own calendar) I am afraid Dispensationalists have accepted the doctrine of the Jehovah’s Witnesses who also mis- interpreted the meaning of the Magis’ visitation; to the King.  What am I getting at?    


About a month ago as I was studying some Dispensationalist Millennial views I came across a jaw dropping sermon/presentation video from a very prominent pastor on the west coast of the US.  On Sunday, August 20, 2020 in a sermon/presentation entitled, “What on earth is the millennium” this well known pastor immediately brought that sacred 1st advent hymn, “Joy to the World'', penned in 1719 by Issac Watts into immediate disrepute.  From the very opening of his sermon/presentation until the 1:30 time marker he went over some of the hymn lyrics and asked his congregation if they were really true -- now.  He ended by saying that those words are not true and will only come to  pass at the time of the Millennium when Jesus “supposedly” returns to earth to reign for 1000 years. Let’s look at the lyrics of this song with my emphasis.  


Stanza #1  Joy to the world, the Lord is come.  Let earth receive her king.  Let ev’ry heart prepare him room  And heav’n and nature sing. 3X

Stanza #2  Joy to the World the Savior reigns.  Let men their songs employ.  While fields and floods, rocks, hills, and plains, Repeat the sounding joy. 3X

Stanza #3  He rules the world with truth and grace.  And makes the nations prove The glories of His righteousness And the wonders of His love. 3X

Stanza #4  No more let sin and sorrow grow Nor thorns infest the ground.  He comes to make His blessings flow Far as the curse is found. 3X


My friend, my dear brothers and sisters, is there any doubt on where this sweet psalmist stood relative to the timing of Jesus’ reign?  This song stirs the spirit within to cry out, Jesus is King!  You could only sit there unmoved if upon hearing these lyrics heartily sung from the breasts of God’s holy elect you willfully covered your ears, closed your eyes, held your nose, clenched your teeth, and sat on your hands.

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Post by Bro John Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:14 pm

Part 3e

But our west coast pastor says NO, JESUS IS NOT REIGNING NOW!  He will only reign during the millenium.  NO, THE NATIONS DO NOT PROVE THE GLORIES OF HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS NOW.  That will only be accomplished during the millennium.  My friend, that is a lie, a terrible lie coming from a teacher of God’s flock.  Beware of him, but also keep in mind, however, that this denial of Jesus’ reign until a future 1000 years is an immovable pillar in the House of Dispensationalism.  They cannot have Christ reigning now.  That will bring down their entire denominational house of cards!  They do not see that they are in very real danger in bringing  the exact same judgment down upon themselves as the citizens in ‘The Parable of the Talents’ who would not have Christ reign. 


Their next step, if they are consistent, will be to ban this song of songs from the Church’s hymn book.  But this is not the only song from the sacred hymnal where Christ is heralded as King from birth.  No.  We place before you now the 1st stanza of the 1st advent hymn, “What Child isThis” with my emphasis written in 1865.
 
What Child is this Who’s laid to rest on Mary’s lap and sleeping? Whom angels greet with anthems sweet while shepherds’ watch are keeping,  This, this is Christ the King Whom shepherds guard and angels sing.  Haste, haste to bring Him laud, the Babe the son of Mary. 


Or how about this 1st advent/stanza hymn, “Hark, the Herald Angels Sing” with my emphasis.
penned in 1739, 25 years before we declared our independence?


Hark, the Herald Angels sing.  Glory to the newborn King! Peace on earth and mercy mild, God and sinner, reconciled.  Joyful all ye nations rise.  Join the triumph of the skies.  With angelic hosts proclaim, Christ is born in Bethlehem.  Hark, the herald angels sing.  Glory to the newborn king! 


I could go on.  It is incontrovertible that these sacred hymn writers from years ago believed Christ was King by virtue of His divinity at birth. Do we suddenly know more than they?  Lastly, here is another hymn that is not associated with the 1st advent but is sung year around.  This is the 1st stanza of Crown Him with Many Crowns with my emphasis written in 1851.


Crown Him with Many Crowns, the Lamb upon His throne.  Hark, how the heavenly anthem drowns all music but its own.  Awake my soul and sing, of Him Who died for thee And hail Him as thy matchless King for all eternity.  


Will we pitch this lovely hymn into the dustbin of history? Jesus is King.  He reigns, NOW.  Brother, sister, the fact that Jesus is reigning now is repugnant, no it is anathema to atheists, agnostics, pagans, Jehovah’s Witnesses, 7th Day Adventists, Mormons, Muslims, Jews, and many more.  Why on earth would you include yourself in that company?


A final question for you: If Jesus is not reigning now, who is?   

To be continued………………….. (LORD WILLING)

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Post by Bro John Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:42 am

Part 4a

The Present Day Kingdom of Heaven


Where we prove beyond any doubt that the kingdom was not offered, rejected, withdrawn and postponed, but rather declared, rejected, and commence.  


Should you like to contact me regarding this series I may be reached at manovclay1@gmail.com
Part 4a of TBD

The King/Kingdom At Hand

The Prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27






Allow me to sum up our main point from Part 3 before we begin another thread.  The 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity was a king from all eternity past and at the time of the Incarnation became the God/Man Christ Jesus.  We hear of Him by way of the mouth of Nebuchadnezzer in Daniel 2:47 after Daniel and his friends recounted the king’s dream and give the interpretation of it whereby it is written with [my] emphasis, “Of a truth it is that your God is a God of gods, [the Father] and a Lord of kings, [the Son] and a revealer of secrets.[the Holy Spirit]  And, although a king, Christ Jesus divested Himself of all prestige, honor, and privilege, and taking upon Himself the form of a servant He became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.  (See Philippians 2:5-11) 


Upon His overcoming of sin, death, hell, the grave, and Satan God highly exalted Him and He received the promised and prophesied kingdom of His father, David at His ascension and has since been ruling over the “House of Jacob, the born again believers, from His throne in heaven.  We now move to one of the most wonderful proofs that ‘the millennium’ cannot be a literal 1000 year reign of Jesus from the earthly city of Jerusalem from a rebuilt temple despite what we are told by our Dispensationaist friends.  We place before you Mark chapter 1, with my emphasis.


14.  Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 
15.  And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Before going forward we must pause to clear up a common misconception.  Dispensationalists tell us that “the kingdom of God”, and “the kingdom of heaven” are two distinct and separate kingdoms.  The kingdom of God being spiritual and heavenly, while the kingdom of heaven is natural, and earthly.  Take notice that in verse 15 above Mark informs us that Jesus preached “the kingdom of God”, while Matthew, however, states that He preached the “kingdom of heaven.” (See Matthew 4:17)  Which is it?  The fact is, these phrases are interchangeable.  Matthew never uses the phrase “kingdom of God” while Mark and Luke do, and conversely, Mark and Luke never use the phrase, ‘kingdom of heaven” while Matthew does.  


Last edited by Bro John on Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : rename)

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Post by Bro John Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:39 pm

Part 4a2

For example, in Matthew 19:14 Jesus said, “Suffer little children and forbid them not to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”   Mark 10:14 puts it like this.  “Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.”  Luke pens the words of Jesus thusly in Luke 18:16. “Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.  So, despite Mark and Luke utilizing the phrase, “the kingdom of God”, and Matthew using “the kingdom of heaven” they are the very same thing.       


So, what time had elapsed, or what event had transpired that the kingdom of God/heaven could then be considered at hand?  Remember, when King Herod heard the Wise Men from the East ask, “where is he born king of the Jews” he did not enquire who this king was, but where he should be born.  Herod knew it was Christ who would be given the throne of his father, David just as the prophecy had stated.   But which city of Judah?  Remember also that the scriptures tell us that Christ was born in the “fullness of time”; that is; at the filling up, or the proper time. (See Galatians 4:4) So as the king had the proper time to be born, so must His kingdom also have its proper time to begin as well.  Enter the Book of Daniel and the prophecy from 9:24-27.       

Before we embark on this journey, however, please know that the Book of Daniel generally, and this particular prophecy specifically is so hated by Jesus’ enemies that they maintain it was written AFTER the events it purportedly prophesied had come to pass.  But this is not the case, for when John the Baptist suddenly came on the scene the “people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not.” (Luke 3:15)Expectations were high because they had the Book of Daniel, that’s why.  They knew from that prophecy that they were then in the time window for its fulfillment.  Without further ado, here is my explanation of the disputed points of the most important prophecy time wise in the entire OT about Messiah. 

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