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The One True God

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The One True God - Page 2 Empty God and Jesus - Seperate people

Post by strangelove Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:16 pm

1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Romans 15:6,“that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

2 Corinthians 1:3,“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort”.

2 Corinthians 11:31, “The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed forever [cp.Rom.9], knows that I am not lying.”

Ephesians 1:3, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places”.

1 Peter 1:3, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused usto be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead”.

1 Thessalonians 1:3, “remembering before our God and Father your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ”.

1 Thessalonians 3:11, “Now may our God and Father himself, and our Lord Jesus, direct our way to you”.

1 Thessalonians 3:13, “so that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.”

Romans 10:9 (KJV)  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Acts 2:34-36 (KJV)  For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Acts 7:55 and 56 (55) But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. (56) “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”


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The One True God - Page 2 Empty Philippians 2:5-6 - who, being God....

Post by strangelove Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:48 pm

Philippians 2:5-6 (KJV)  Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Many translations leave out the "form of God" and make it read "who, being God"

Now you need to ask yourself, why would they do that? The Greek word is morphe (form) and its clearly there in the text.

It's the same idea as image of God. An image cannot, by definition, be the original.

Morphe means outward appearance. Look at the below...

Mark 16:12 (KJV) After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

Here Jesus appears in "another form" [morphe] to the two travellers. No trinitarian would assert Jesus changed his essential nature. He changed his outward appearance so they wouldn't recognizer him.

Morphe is also used several times in the Septuagint where it clearly means outward appearance. (Job 4:15-16, Isa 44:13, Dan 3:19)

Also note the compound words in the NT made from morphe that clearly refer to outward appearance or countenance. Morphosis (2 Tim 3:5), metamorphoomai (Matt 17:2, Mark 9:2, 2 Cor 3:18)

μορφῇ
morphē
Strong's Concordance
morphé: form, shape
Original Word: μορφή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: morphé
Phonetic Spelling: (mor-fay')
Definition: form, shape
Usage: form, shape, outward appearance.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3444: μορφή
μορφή, μορφῆς, ἡ (from root signifying 'to lay hold of', 'seize' (cf. German Fassung); Fick, Part i., p. 174; Vanicek, p. 719), from Homer down, the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance: children are said to reflect ψυχῆς τέ καί μορφῆς ὁμοιότητα (of their parents),


Last edited by strangelove on Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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The One True God - Page 2 Empty 1 John 5:20 - This is he true God

Post by strangelove Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:39 am

1 John 5:20 (KJV)  And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

In this verse, Jesus is identified as the son of God who reveals "him that is true".

So there is quite obviously two persons in this verse, Jesus and God. No one would argue with that.

Now, given that Jesus says quite explicitly that the Father is the only true God (John 17.3) Then there is no reason to think that "This is he true God" in this verse is not the same person, the Father.

If it wasn't the Father, then it would violate Jesus unitary monotheistic creed and be a total contradiction.


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The One True God - Page 2 Empty John 21:17 - you know all things

Post by strangelove Tue Dec 27, 2022 8:57 pm

John 21:17 (KJV) He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Trinitarians will sometimes use this verse to show Jesus was omniscient, and therefore God almighty.

However, we know from other verses that Jesus was not all knowing in an omniscient sense.

Luke 8:45-46 (KJV) And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.

John 11:34 (KJV) And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.

Hebrews 5:8 (KJV) Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Matthew 24:36 (KJV) But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

So how do we resolve John 21:17? Well, the theme of the verse is knowing people's thoughts, what they are feeling. We know Jesus had a gift for this.

Matthew 9:4 (KJV) And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?

So that's the context of this verse. Simon is using hyperbole to describe Jesus ability to know the hearts of men.

And let us not forget that it was the Father working in him. And the fathers words coming from his mouth.

John 14:10 (KJV) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
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The One True God - Page 2 Empty 1 Timothy 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh

Post by strangelove Mon Jan 02, 2023 1:18 pm

1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

A better reading would be "great is the mystery of godliness which was manifest in the flesh"

The KJV rendering is the result of corrupted copy of later manuscripts in that verse. Quite well known to scholars, "beyond controversy" apparently. This is why it appears in much later Greek texts.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

God was manifest in the flesh.—Here, in the most ancient authorities, the word “God” does not occur. We must, then, literally translate the Greek of the most famous and trustworthy MSS. as follows: He who was manifested in the flesh. In the later MSS., and in the great majority of the fathers who cite the passage, we certainly find Theos (“God”), as in the Received text. The substitution can be traced to no special doctrinal prejudice, but is owing, probably, to a well-meant correction of early scribes. At first sight, Theos (“God”) would be a reading easier to understand, and grammatically more exact; and in the original copies, the great similitude between ΘC (“God”)—the contracted form in which ΘEOC was written—and the relative ΘC (“He who”), would be likely to suggest to an officious scribe the very trifling alteration necessary for the easier and apparently more accurate word. Recent investigations have shown, however, beyond controversy that the oldest MSS., with scarcely an exception, contain the more difficult reading, ΘC (“He who”).


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The One True God - Page 2 Empty Resources

Post by strangelove Mon Jan 02, 2023 1:23 pm

Books:

When Jesus became God - Richard Rubenstein

Misquoting Jesus - Bart Ehrman

The Doctrine of the Trinity - Anthony Buzzard

Divine Truth or Human Tradition- Patrick Navas

Michael Servetus- M Hiller & Clare Allen

Out of the flames - Lawrence Goldstone

Websites:

Biblicalunitarian.com
Servetus.org
Restorationfellowship.org
4onegod.net
Godward.org
Thehumanjesus.org
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The One True God - Page 2 Empty John 2:19 n three days I will raise it up

Post by strangelove Mon Jan 02, 2023 1:42 pm

John 2:19 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

John 10:17-18 (KJV) Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
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The One True God - Page 2 Empty Hebrews 1:10-12 the work of your hands

Post by strangelove Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:10 pm

Hebrews 1:10-12 is a quotation from Psalm 102:25-27 where the Psalmist is talking to Yahweh God, about Yahweh God. It is in no way the Father speaking to the son like you claim. God alone was the creator in the beginning. We know this from many verses.

Isaiah 44:24 (KJV) Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Psalms 33:6 (KJV) By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Psalms 148:5 (KJV) Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.

Isaiah 45:12 (KJV) I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Also, please compare with the below.

Hebrews 2:7 (KJV) Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

That's talking about how the Father created Jesus as a man and then highly exalted him over.... the works of the father's hands.
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The One True God - Page 2 Empty Zechariah 12:10 me whom they have pierced

Post by strangelove Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:26 am

Zechariah 12:10 (KJV) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

First thing to say is this verse makes no sense as translated above. In the first person it says "look upon ME whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for HIM".

Why would this be Jesus saying they pierced ME, and then say they will mourn for HIM? Who is the HIM in that case? It's incoherent.

That's why many translations go for the below which is allowed by the hebrew grammar.

New American Bible
"so that when they look on HIM whom they have thrust through, they will mourn for HIM"

New Revised Standard Version
"so that, when they look on THE ONE WHOM they have pierced, they shall mourn for HIM"

JPS Tanakh 1917
"And they shall look unto Me because they have thrust him through; And they shall mourn for him,"

(This one above is my personal preferred translation)

Good News Translation
"They will look at the ONE WHOM they stabbed to death, and they will mourn for HIM"

Contemporary English Version
"when they see the one they pierced with a spear. They will mourn and weep for him"

Secondly, we are specifically told that God spoke through the prophets in the old days.... NOT the son. The son speaks only in these "last days".

Hebrews 1:1-2 (KJV) God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son...

Thirdly, every Bible Translation out there has John quoting the Zechariah verse as below with "HIM whom they have pierced" or something very similar. This is confirmation that the unpopular translation of Zech 12:10 is the correct one.

John 19:37 (KJV) And again another scripture saith, They shall look on HIM whom they pierced.

So in Zechariah 12:10 it is most certainly not Jesus talking, it is Yahweh. For conclusive proof, see where the speaker goes on to talk about "my shepherd" in the same passage. Jesus doesn't have a shepherd, he is the shepherd. God's shepherd.
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The One True God - Page 2 Empty Zechariah 2:9-1 - Yahweh sent me

Post by strangelove Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:48 pm

Zechariah 2:9-11 (KJV) For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.
Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

The problem with the trinitarian view of these verses is selective placement of speech marks to try and make it look like Yahweh [God the Father] is sending Yahweh [God the son].

Yahweh doesn't send Yahweh, because Yahweh is the personal name of one person.

The surrounding context makes it clear there is an angel speaking. Let's look at the NET version of verse 9 and how they place the speech marks.

NET Bible
"I am about to punish them in such a way," he says, "that they will be looted by their own slaves." Then you will know that the LORD who rules over all has sent me.

You can see that it is Yahweh speaking in the speech marks and somebody else speaking outside the marks, the angel who was sent by Yahweh. The angel of the Lord.

And again in verse 11. Same format. God in speech marks. Angel outside.

NET Bible
"Many nations will join themselves to the LORD on the day of salvation, and they will also be my people. Indeed, I will settle in the midst of you all." Then you will know that the LORD who rules over all has sent me to you.
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The One True God - Page 2 Empty Revelation 1:17-18 (KJV) First and last

Post by strangelove Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:11 pm

Revelation 1:17-18 (KJV) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, "Fear not; I am the first and the last:
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."

The speaker above is most certainly Jesus, as he was dead. It can't be God because he is inherently immortal and cannot die.

In Isaiah 44:6, that is God the Father speaking, who's name is Yahweh.

Yahweh is always just God the Father. He's the only true God.

The trinitarian claim is that both the Lord Jesus and God almighty Yahweh share titles.... therefore Jesus is Yahweh.

Alpha and omega.
Beginning and end.
First and last.

There is an explanation for these shared titles without violating the unitary monotheistic faith of Jesus and the apostles.

God the Father is the beginning and end of physical creation. He spoke the earth into existence and stretched forth the heavens alone. The title first and last connected with the flavour of physical creation can be garnered from verses such as...

Isaiah 48:12-13
Isaiah 41:4
Also in Isaiah 44:6 he has the same title first and last, and later in verse 24 he emphasises his sole role in creation again.

Jesus is the first and last, alpha and omega of the NEW creation. He's the firstborn of all creation, the beginning, firstborn out of the dead (Col 1:18)

Rev 3:14 says he's the beginning of the creation of God.... that's the new creation in Christ.

Jesus is also the end, because he has been ordained by God to judge the world on the last day, after which he will hand back the kingdom to the Father.

Acts 17:31 (KJV) Because he [GOD] hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

There seems to be some difficulty in the trinitarian claim.

If you are going to say that the shared titles means Jesus is the speaker in Isa 44:6, then who is that speaker in Isaiah exactly. Who is that Yahweh? If its the triune God then Jesus is not the triune God in the doctrine.

If its God the Father speaking in Isaiah, then Jesus is not the Father in the doctrine of the Trinity. So that makes no sense either.

And I don't think any trinitarian would say its just Jesus talking in Isaiah, as that speaker keeps talking about creating everything on his own, but the doctrine claims that God the Father created everything, through Jesus at the beginning. So that violates trinity doctrine too.

And if Jesus in Rev 1:17-18 is the same as the person (or thing?) speaking in Isaiah.... then can that speaker in Isaiah ever be dead as is stated in the Rev verse?

Who is that speaker in Isaiah 44:6 exactly? It seems the contradictions are insurmountable within trinity doctrine.
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The One True God - Page 2 Empty John 10:33 - makest yourself God

Post by strangelove Sat Jan 28, 2023 3:20 pm

John 10:33 (KJV) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

There are translation issues here similar to John 1:1.

The Jews would never think Jesus was claiming to be the one God of Israel because that's too absurd, and Jesus never did claim that. What he did claim when he said he was God's Christ and son, is that he held divine authority... and this is what the pharisees were alluding to, that he claimed a "divine" status.

The verse would be better translated...

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself a "god".

The judges were called "gods". Why? Because they had divine authority. Its a hebrew idiom.

The Greek reads theos without the definite article "the". This is more of an adjective "godlike" or "divine". Let's read on...

John 10:34-35 (KJV) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Here the word theoi (plural) is correctly translated gods with a small g.

In the part "word of God" however, we do have the definite article τοῦ (the) and thus, its correctly given the capital G for God almighty.

And let's not forget Jesus denying emphatically that he is God in the next verse...

John 10:36 (KJV) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Again, God has the definite article "the" God.

Other examples of "god" without the definite article...

Used of Herod
Acts 12:22 (KJV) And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man.

Used of Paul
Acts 28:6 (KJV) Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
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The One True God - Page 2 Empty Re: The One True God

Post by Bro John Sun Oct 29, 2023 1:25 pm

Dear sir, a red flag goes up for me each time I hear someone say that a specific verse or verses should be translated in such and such a manner.  Each time they are attempting to substantiate their own view of the subject.  This is similar to the partisan who utilizes many versions of the Bible in order to make their particular point.  I believe you have done that with the divinity of Jesus.  John 8:24 is the litmus test of Christian orthodoxy.  I pray you have not strayed to the point of no return.  Praying for you, sir.

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The One True God - Page 2 Empty Re: The One True God

Post by strangelove Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:51 pm

Bro John wrote:Dear sir, a red flag goes up for me each time I hear someone say that a specific verse or verses should be translated in such and such a manner.  Each time they are attempting to substantiate their own view of the subject.  This is similar to the partisan who utilizes many versions of the Bible in order to make their particular point.  I believe you have done that with the divinity of Jesus.  John 8:24 is the litmus test of Christian orthodoxy.  I pray you have not strayed to the point of no return.  Praying for you, sir.

I believe Jesus is who he said he was from the beginning. From above, fom God the father....the son of God, the messiah, who spoke the words of his father to be the light of the world...so that through him they might know God.

If that makes Jesus divine then I'm all for it!

divine
/dɪˈvʌɪn/
adjective
adjective: divine; comparative adjective: diviner; superlative adjective: divinest

   1.
   of or like God or a god.

John 8:23-26 (ESV) He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.  I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”  So they said to him, “Who are you?” Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been telling you from the beginning.  I have much to say about you and much to judge, but he who sent me is true, and I declare to the world what I have heard from him.”
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The One True God - Page 2 Empty Re: The One True God

Post by Bro John Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:04 am

Thank you, sir. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. He is the express image. In Him dwells all of the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form.

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The One True God - Page 2 Empty Re: The One True God

Post by strangelove Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:11 am

Bro John wrote:Thank you, sir.  Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father.  He is the express image.  In Him dwells all of the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form.

Exactly. Jesus copied what he saw his father do. In this way it was in fact the fathers works, not his own, that he did. So we can know God through his son.


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The One True God - Page 2 Empty Re: The One True God

Post by Bro John Thu Nov 16, 2023 3:24 pm

Essence is not action. Being is not doing. You conflate 2 different things. He does because of Who He is.

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The One True God - Page 2 Empty Re: The One True God

Post by strangelove Thu Nov 16, 2023 11:08 pm

Bro John wrote:Essence is not action.  Being is not doing.  You conflate 2 different things.  He does because of Who He is.

He is the son of God, and the messiah of God.

A man, attested by God to be a mediator between men and God.

He thought it quite important for us to know who the one true God is. John 17:3. The father.
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The One True God - Page 2 Empty Re: The One True God

Post by Bro John Fri Nov 17, 2023 12:47 am

In Him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in a human body.

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The One True God - Page 2 Empty Re: The One True God

Post by strangelove Fri Nov 17, 2023 1:52 am

Bro John wrote:In Him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in a human body.  

Col 2:9 (NIV) For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form

Trinitarians sometimes bring up this verse as evidence that Jesus is God, but what does the verse actually teach?

It seems quite clear that the deity, God almighty, is dwelling in the man Jesus. Which is a fundamental truth unitarians proudly uphold.

Jesus is the temple, and God dwells in him by his spirit.

The church, all true believers, are also the temple.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (KJV) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Indeed, as partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) we are filled with the fulness of God.

Ephesians 3:19 (KJV) And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

So if Col 2:9 means Christ is God then so are we Christians. Of course..... it doesn't. Its talking about God's spirit taking up residence in believers so that we are one in spirit, as Jesus described in detail in John 17:21.
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Post by Bro John Fri Nov 17, 2023 3:38 pm

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty AND the Lamb are the temple in it. Revelation 21:22. Noel, ir appears you are free falling toward the "man is God doctrine.". May God help you.

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Post by strangelove Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:34 pm

Yes both God and Jesus can be said to be our sanctuary, our covering, our rest.

I certainly do not think man is God. Quite the opposite sir. There is only one true God, Yahweh the father.

And I'm not sure why you have decided to call me Noel?
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Post by Bro John Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:29 pm

Jesus is of one essence with the Father.

Jesus is God.

No particular reason.

Sir, this is the only thing I speak to jw's, some sda's and christadelphians. Unless you believe that Jesus is the I AM you shall die in your sins.

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Post by strangelove Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:57 pm

Bro John wrote:Jesus is of one essence with the Father.

Jesus is God.

No particular reason.  

Sir, this is the only thing I speak to jw's, some sda's and christadelphians.  Unless you believe that Jesus is the I AM you shall die in your sins.

John 8:58 (KJV) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Here Jesus is simply saying before Abraham was, I am he. Who? Everything I ever claimed to be. He never claimed to be God. He claimed to be messiah, son of God.

It's not an I AM capital letters allusion to a verse in Exodus like trinitarians claim. Is the blind man also claiming to be God in John 9:9? Same Greek common personal identifier, ego eimi.

John 9:9 (KJV) Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he. (Ego eimi)

Here's other examples of Jesus saying ego eimi, I am he, I am the one, it's me etc.

Mark 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am (ego eimi); and shall deceive many.
John 4:25-26 (KJV) The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. (ego eimi)
John 10:36 (KJV) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (ego eimi)
John 13:19 (KJV) Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he. (ego eimi)

No one claims those verses are Jesus claiming to be God.

God the Father is the original Light (Glory), and that Light existed long before Abraham. The flesh human named Jesus declared the Father. The Father dwelling in His son did the works, and in this way that body of flesh was the Light of the world, the Light from the Father shining, similar to the rays from the sun, from God (the originator of the light) through a human being. Because the Father abiding in him did the works, and the body of flesh declared the Father to the world in terms of all the things Jesus was doing, this flesh was shining that Light of God the Father who is that Light. This flesh, Jesus, was that Light of the Father to the world, that Light which existed long before Abraham.

"I am the Light of the world."

Not the original light, but the radiance of that Light to the world, "the light of men" (John 1:4). The brightness of glory, not that original glory itself, which is God's. The image of God, not God himself (Heb 1:3). The light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus (2Cor 4:6). It is the radiance of God seen in Jesus, because God made his dwelling in him (Col 2:9).

"Abraham was glad to see my Day; He saw it and was glad."

Galatians 3:8 (KJV) And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Hebrews 11:10 (KJV) For he [Abraham] looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

"Before Abraham was, I am he."

I am the blessing.
I am the promised light to men.
I am the lamb slaughtered from the foundations of the world.
I am the messiah, the son of God, planned from the beginning.

Notice the clear and simple stated purpose of John's writings....

John 20:31 (KJV) But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

As a side note, the claim Jesus was using a special codeword for Yahweh (I AM) to identify himself is incorrect.

If we look at the referenced verse in Exodus it reads...

Exodus 3:14 (KJV) And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

In the Greek translation of the OT, the septuagint, this gets translated to "I am (ego eimi) the being (ho on). Tell them the being (ho on) sent you." See below.

Brenton Septuagint Translation

And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.

So the new testament writer John, writing in Greek would surely have referenced the septuagint if Jesus really did mean to call himself Yahweh in this way, and would have wrote in John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, the being [ho on]".

Or "Before Abraham was, I am the being [ego eimi ho on]".
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Post by Bro John Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:18 pm

I stand by Jesus'word. You have proven to deny the oneness of the Father and the Son as antichrists do. Goodbye, sir. I appreciate you allowing me to post here.

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Post by strangelove Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:18 am

Bro John wrote:I stand by Jesus'word.   You have proven to deny the oneness of the Father and the Son as antichrists do.  Goodbye, sir.  I appreciate you allowing me to post here.  

I certainly do not deny the oneness in spirit of the father and the son. But if that means Jesus is God then it means us who believe are also God, as Jesus prayed to his God and father that we would be one just like he and the father are one.

John 17:20-23 (KJV) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Hope you have second thoughts and come back later brother John.
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