The "Coming" of Jesus Christ

Brother we shall have a body like Jesus' body and share in His inheritance. Yes, we must be raised in a glorified body. Jesus is in the same body He ascended in. Steven saw the Son of Man not a spirit, and the angels said "this same Jesus" will return. Yes, we are currently seated with Him spiritually for we are "in Christ."

Faith, hope and charity abided now when Paul wrote. But neither hope or faith are needed in the NHNE. I invite your attention to Romans 8:23-25. There is no need to move mountains in the world to come. I Corinthians 13:2

Bro John wrote:Steven saw the Son of Man not a spirit

Did Stephen also physically see God....and the the right hand of God?
Or was he having a spiritual vision.....being full of the holy spirit?

Acts 7:55-56 (ESV) But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.  And he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

1Tim 1:17 (ESV) To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

None of the people stoning Stephen were privvy to this magnificent sight were they?

Bro John wrote:we must be raised in a glorified body.

Are we not already raised in a glorified body?

Rom 12:4-5 (ESV) For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function,  so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

1Cor 10:16 (ESV) The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

1Cor 12:27 (ESV) Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.

Col 1:24 (ESV) Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

Bro John wrote:Faith, hope and charity abided now when Paul wrote. But neither hope or faith are needed in the NHNE. I invite your attention to Romans 8:23-25.

Rom 8:23-25 (YLT) And not only [so], but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting--the redemption of our body;  for in hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what any one doth behold, why also doth he hope for [it]?  and if what we do not behold we hope for, through continuance we expect [it].

Of course, when a thing comes, we do not need to hope for it anymore.
I do not need to hope for my salvation, it has come.
I do not need to hope for the messiah to come, he has come.
I do not need to hope for redemption of the body of Christ, it has been redeemed.

That doesn't mean all hope in me has been extinguisehd. I can still hope that my wife, kids and millions of others can join the redeemed body of Christ.

Notice the YLT translation singluar our "body".

Bro John wrote:There is no need to move mountains in the world to come. I Corinthians 13:2

Paul is making the point that even if he can move mountains with his faith, without love...its meaningless.

Below is my thoughts on the NH&NE that I posted many months ago on Facebook. Thanks for discussing with me! Always appreciate your input.

New heavens and earth in my understanding is this age, the church age. As opposed to the old covenant age. We know this because it is described as the time when Yahweh will be our God and we will be his people. A time when he will dwell in us.


Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


It is confirmed this is the new covenant era by Paul.

2 Corinthians 6:16 (KJV)  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And again in Rev.

Revelation 7:15 (KJV)  Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

And in Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 31:33 (KJV)  But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And Ezekiel.

Ezekiel 37:26-28 (KJV)  Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

And in Hebrews.

Hebrews 8:8-11 (KJV)  For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

The church is definately the dwelling place of God.

Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)  But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

We have come, already, to mount Sion. Part of the heavenly Jerusalem. Past tense right? If its not visible then its obviously a spiritual city, mount and temple.

Jesus went to prepare the church. The temple is God's dwelling place. On conversion God dwells in us. Hence we are living stones that make the temple of the kingdom. We are the "rooms" in our father's house.

John 14:2-3 (KJV)  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1 Peter 2:5 (KJV)  Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

The only conclusion possible is that the new heavens and new earth is the new covenant age, the kingdom. The one Peter was looking forward to.

2 Peter 3:13 (KJV)  Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

It was not far off, as Peter lived when the old was being dissolved and the new was coming in, the demarcation line being the final and total closing of the old heavens and earth in the 70AD destruction of the temple and the city as prophesied in Daniel.

Daniel 9:26 (KJV)  And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

That doesn't mean all hope in me has been extinguisehd. I can still hope that my wife, kids and millions of others can join the redeemed body of Christ.

I'm not trying to be difficult. There is no hope and faith or knowledge in the nhne. Only love and knowing as we are known. This and the flesh and blood hurdle will prevent full preterism.

Bro John wrote:There is no hope and faith or knowledge in the nhne.

There will be no knowledge at all in the next age? That makes no sense at all my friend. Will you know God in the NH&NE? Will you have faith in God?

Bro John wrote:This and the flesh and blood hurdle will prevent full preterism.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. Which means it's spiritual. I see that as supporting FP actually. We are raised in a spiritual body. The body of Christ, not a natural, perishable body.

1Cor 15:42-48 (ESV) So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable.  It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.  Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.  But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.  The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.  As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.

Bro John wrote:None.  Only knowing and love.

You are basically talking about a different kind of knowledge. Just....."knowing". Great, I see the same thing when the old covenant died and the new world dawned. The body was blessed with the spirit, and God's laws were written on the heart of the body of Christ. No more knowledge, just knowing. When God dwells in you...then you have no need for the knowledge (the laws written on tablets), you just know.

I'm not looking for the last word John.....just seeking to test a hypothesis.

Fair enough
  Here is my last word on it barring any questions from you.  
Dispie doctrine cannot be tested because they say it is future....it hasn't happened yet.  
FP doctrine can't be tested because they say it's past....it has already happened.  

Both doctrines are two sides of the same false doctrine coin.

Bro John wrote:FP doctrine can't be tested because they say it's past....it has already happened.

Surely the FP view is the only one that certainly can be tested as it needs to provide historical data for every single biblical prophecy?

You say a bodily biological coming of Jesus and general resurrectionof the saints is future right? So you fall into the same camp as dispies offering an untestable futurist view no?

I tested the fp hypothesis.when I pricked the flesh of my finger and blood oozed out.  Yes, I am in the kingdom now as John was (spiritually) and all the saints were between Pentecost and 70ad.  But I have not yet inherited it.  This mirrors Abraham who was before the law of Moses that fp folks insist is "the death".  He was given the land and received it by faith.  But he did not inherit it until he died.

#1 Jesus Christ was born, lived His entire life, and died while in a human body of flesh.
Galatians 4:4, Hebrews 2:14, John 1:14, 19:33-37.

#2 The same Jesus Who was crucified, dead and buried was resurrected in the same body that never saw corruption.
Matthew 28:5-7, Acts 2:22-24, 3:13-15, 4:10, I Corinthians 15:3, 4

#3 That same resurrected body was not bound by space/time constraints nor subject to laws of nature while on earth.
It was a glorified body, never to die again.
Luke 24:30-39, John 20:19, 26, Romans 6:9

#4 This same Jesus was heard, seen, and handled of men for 40 days on earth in that resurrected body.
Acts 1:1-3, I Corinthians 15:5-7, Matthew 28:9, Luke 24:34-40, John 20:24-29

#5 This same Jesus ascended into heaven in the same resurrected body to the right hand of the Father after the 40 days.
Acts 1:9, 2:29-36, Mark 16:19, 20, Luke 24:50, 51

#6 The angels told the apostles who watched Jesus ascend into heaven to the right hand of the Father that
"this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as you have seen him go into heaven.
Acts 1:11
In other words he was leaving earth ascending to heaven in His glorified body and one day He would leave heaven and descend to earth.
Notice it was the same Jesus or "the Lord, himself " that would descend just as Jesus told the terrified apostles
when He appeared in their midst after His resurrection, "behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself."
He was obviously speaking of His body. This is the antitype of Joseph and his brethren.
They too thought they had seen a ghost when Joseph made himself known unto them the second time. They were terrified.
And who wouldn't be? They had sold their brother into slavery, never to be seen of again, or so they thought.
Such was it when the disciples saw the Lord. They had forsaken him and denied that they knew Him. But who could return after a Roman execution?
Wouldn't you be terrified? But just as Joseph forgave, Jesus did more so.
I Thessalonians 4:13-17, Luke 24:39, Acts 3:27, 28, Genesis 45:1-15, Acts 7:13

#7 This same Jesus was seen some 3 ½ years later in the same resurrected body standing on the right hand of the Father.
Stephen called Jesus not Son of God, but rather "Son of man."
Acts 7:55, 56

#8 The Jesus must remain bodily in heaven at the right hand of the Father until "all his enemies have been made a stool for His feet,
and until the times of the restitution of all things.
Acts 2:34, 35, 3:21
These 2 scriptures hiding in plain sight prohibit both Futurism and Full Preterism. But, how?
The Futurist Jesus leaves heaven bodily in a rapture and at the 2nd coming BEFORE the times of restitution of all things
and before all enemies are placed under His feet, and perhaps a 3rd time with the descent of New Jerusalem. The Beast and False Prophet
are not put down at the Futurist Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, or Pre-Wrath Raptures, and Satan is not put down until after the Futurist Millennium.
The Jesus of Covenant Eschatology no longer has the body in which He was resurrected and ascended to the right hand of the Father.
In other words He will never leave heaven. Futurists have Jesus leaving early, and CE's NEVER in plain contradiction of scripture!
Partial Preterists, however have Jesus leave heaven bodily only 1 time when Acts 2:34, 35, and 3:21 are both fulfilled.
Yes, PP's see Jesus coming in 70 AD just as CE's do. PP's also believe Jesus came to His disciples at Pentecost though not bodily as He said He would.
John 14:17-20.

#9 Paul stated that Jesus would change our vile (corrupt) body, that it might be fashioned like unto his glorious body when He came from heaven.
The apostles wrote that it was the physical body of the saints that would be changed and put on immortality just as Christ's body.
When Christ appears from heaven we will be like Him for we will see Him how He is, now, presently.
Philippians 3:20, 21, I John 3:2, I Corinthians 15::20-23, 43-49

#10 Jesus said His resurrected body was flesh and bones. His blood had been poured out at His crucifixion.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption.
Luke 24:39, I Corinthians 15:50, Hebrews 9:11, 12, 22-29, John 20:34

If you are still in a body that grows old, and finally dies and decays, Jesus has not come.
If you bleed when you cut yourself you have not yet inherited the Kingdom of God.

Bro John wrote:I tested the fp hypothesis.when I pricked the flesh of my finger and blood oozed out.  Yes, I am in the kingdom now as John was (spiritually) and all the saints were between Pentecost and 70ad.  But I have not yet inherited it.  This mirrors Abraham who was before the law of Moses that fp folks insist is "the death".  He was given the land and received it by faith.  But he did not inherit it until he died.

We have inherited the kingdom in a spiritual sense then.
To me, that is the only sense that matters. We are, right now, fellow heirs with Christ.

Bro John wrote:#3 That same resurrected body was not bound by space/time constraints nor subject to laws of nature while on earth.
It was a glorified body, never to die again.
Luke 24:30-39, John 20:19, 26, Romans 6:9

Luke 24:30-39 does not mention any glorified body, only that it was flesh and blood.

John 20:19 does not mention any glorified body.

Romans 6:9 does not mention any glorified body.

All 3 of your citations simply prove that Jesus was bodily resurrected.

Now look at this...

John 7:39 (ESV) Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

According to this verse Jesus glorification was to come after the spirit was given, which is generally accepted to be after his ascention....not when his body was ressurected.

Even if you want to say that the spirit was poured out in the same scene in John 20:22....then was not Jesus glorified immediately upon his body leaving the tomb?

What was it about the gift of the spirit, which most believe happened at Pentacost, that means Christ was glorified? Well....it was proof he had ascended to the father and crowned with a name above every name. Sitting down with the father is when he was glorified.

Jesus had not yet asceneded to the father when he walked the earth post-tomb.

John 20:17 (ESV) Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

It is not flesh and blood that is glorified, it is a person's status and standing with the almighty. It's a spiritual glory. The only glory that matters.

Bro John wrote:#6 The angels told the apostles who watched Jesus ascend into heaven to the right hand of the Father that
"this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as you have seen him go into heaven.
Acts 1:11
In other words he was leaving earth ascending to heaven in His glorified body and one day He would leave heaven and descend to earth.

I would take the verse diffferently. In like manner, meaning with the clouds[in power], from heaven [of God with glory].

We agree that the below is 70AD right John?

Matt 24:30 (ESV) Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Bro John wrote:#7 This same Jesus was seen some 3 ½ years later in the same resurrected body standing on the right hand of the Father.
Stephen called Jesus not Son of God, but rather "Son of man."
Acts 7:55, 56

Again, I ask.....was this not a spiritual vision? Did Stephen really see a 5ft6" Jewish man standing next to the right hand of a totally invisible God from a distance of 40,000ft?

Bro John wrote:#8 The Jesus must remain bodily in heaven at the right hand of the Father until "all his enemies have been made a stool for His feet,
and until the times of the restitution of all things.
Acts 2:34, 35, 3:21
The Jesus of Covenant Eschatology no longer has the body in which He was resurrected and ascended to the right hand of the Father.

I'm not convinced that when Jesus ascended out of sight to heaven it was a physical body that joined the father and remained there.

God is spirit. After we join God...what use is a flesh body? We are eternally linked to the father right now. We have eternal life now, regardless what happenes to our flesh and bones. We cannot be seperated from him if we are in Christ. Jesus is with believers. Residing in us just as the father does. By the spirit. He can't be in a flesh body right now otherwise how could he dwell in us?

Bro John wrote:#9 Paul stated that Jesus would change our vile (corrupt) body, that it might be fashioned like unto his glorious body when He came from heaven.
The apostles wrote that it was the physical body of the saints that would be changed and put on immortality just as Christ's body.
When Christ appears from heaven we will be like Him for we will see Him how He is, now, presently.
Philippians 3:20, 21, I John 3:2, I Corinthians 15::20-23, 43-49

You didn't respond to my point that the body here ithat was glorified....is the body of Christ, not individual flesh of believers?
A corporate glorification of the body is the point.

Bro John wrote:#10 Jesus said His resurrected body was flesh and bones. His blood had been poured out at His crucifixion.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption.
Luke 24:39, I Corinthians 15:50, Hebrews 9:11, 12, 22-29, John 20:34

Yes exactly, that's why flesh and bones is irrelevant in the kingdom of God. Only our soul/spirit. When our flesh shells are long gone, we remain in the kingdom, connected with God, with Jesus, and with each other by the spirit. Being in the kingdom and co-heirs with Christ is nothing to do with the fllesh.

But you say resurrected and glorified incorruptable flesh and bones are required to inherit the kingdom. Isn't that contradictory?

Bro John wrote:If you are still in a body that grows old, and finally dies and decays, Jesus has not come.
If you bleed when you cut yourself you have not yet inherited the Kingdom of God.

I'm not currently seeing that the bible teaches that at all brother. I'm seeing that biological flesh is irrelevant on the matter of inheritance and citizenship in God's kingdom, as sons of God.

Luke 24:30-39 does not mention any glorified body, only that it was flesh and blood.

John 20:19 does not mention any glorified body.

Romans 6:9 does not mention any glorified body.

All 3 of your citations simply prove that Jesus was bodily resurrected.

You are right.  Thank you for the correction.

Bro John wrote:
#6 The angels told the apostles who watched Jesus ascend into heaven to the right hand of the Father that
"this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as you have seen him go into heaven.
Acts 1:11
In other words he was leaving earth ascending to heaven in His glorified body and one day He would leave heaven and descend to earth.

I would take the verse diffferently. In like manner, meaning with the clouds[in power], from heaven [of God with glory].

We agree that the below is 70AD right John?

Matt 24:30 (ESV) Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

I agree that this is 70ad.


Bro John wrote:
#7 This same Jesus was seen some 3 ½ years later in the same resurrected body standing on the right hand of the Father.
Stephen called Jesus not Son of God, but rather "Son of man."
Acts 7:55, 56

Again, I ask.....was this not a spiritual vision? Did Stephen really see a 5ft6" Jewish man standing next to the right hand of a totally invisible God from a distance of 40,000ft?
I believe so, yes.

Bro John wrote:
#8 The Jesus must remain bodily in heaven at the right hand of the Father until "all his enemies have been made a stool for His feet,
and until the times of the restitution of all things.
Acts 2:34, 35, 3:21
The Jesus of Covenant Eschatology no longer has the body in which He was resurrected and ascended to the right hand of the Father.

I'm not convinced that when Jesus ascended out of sight to heaven it was a physical body that joined the father and remained there.

We can only go with what the scripture tells us.

Bro John wrote:
#9 Paul stated that Jesus would change our vile (corrupt) body, that it might be fashioned like unto his glorious body when He came from heaven.
The apostles wrote that it was the physical body of the saints that would be changed and put on immortality just as Christ's body.
When Christ appears from heaven we will be like Him for we will see Him how He is, now, presently.
Philippians 3:20, 21, I John 3:2, I Corinthians 15::20-23, 43-49

You didn't respond to my point that the body here ithat was glorified....is the body of Christ, not individual flesh of believers?
A corporate glorification of the body is the point.

Look at 1 Corinthians 15:38 and to every (individual) seed his own body.  This is confirmed with different brightness of individual stars.  No Corp body rez

Bro John wrote:
#10 Jesus said His resurrected body was flesh and bones. His blood had been poured out at His crucifixion.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption.
Luke 24:39, I Corinthians 15:50, Hebrews 9:11, 12, 22-29, John 20:34

Yes exactly, that's why flesh and bones is irrelevant in the kingdom of God. Only our soul/spirit. When our flesh shells are long gone, we remain in the kingdom, connected with God, with Jesus, and with each other by the spirit. Being in the kingdom and co-heirs with Christ is nothing to do with the fllesh.

But you say resurrected and glorified incorruptable flesh and bones are required to inherit the kingdom. Isn't that contradictory?

I don't believe it is.

Bro John wrote:
If you are still in a body that grows old, and finally dies and decays, Jesus has not come.
If you bleed when you cut yourself you have not yet inherited the Kingdom of God.

I'm not currently seeing that the bible teaches that at all brother. I'm seeing that biological flesh is irrelevant on the matter of inheritance and citizenship in God's kingdom, as sons of God.

John.... How can Stephen physically see the right hand of God, when we know God is invisible?

Bro, Acts is a narrative, a treatise, like Luke and the other three gospels. Acts 1:1, Luke 1:1-4. Notice the word, certainty in verse 4, no hard to understand sentences. Prophecies, and apocalyptic language are not so easily understood. So, yes, I believe what and Who the scriptures state Steven saw. I Corinthians 15:38-42 categorically rules out a crp body rez. Every seed his own body. For one star differeth from another star in glory. SO ALSO IS THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.

You didn't answer the question John. As soon as we sort out Stephens vision, then we can move onto 1 Cor 15.

Is God totally invisible, yes or no?

Bro, I did answer the question. Again, I ask.....was this not a spiritual vision? Did Stephen really see a 5ft6" Jewish man standing next to the right hand of a totally invisible God from a distance of 40,000ft?
I believe so, yes.
Bro, you are projecting your own thoughts/understanding/personal bias over the scripture. This is dangerous. I believe what the scripture states and if in a narrative or treatuse style context so much the more.

How can an invisible God be seen to have a right hand? Explain please.

Is God totally invisible, yes or no? Simple question sir.

Q1. I do not know. But the Bible states what Steven saw.

Q2. God is invisible to me.

Bro John wrote:Q1.  I do not know.  But the Bible states what Steven saw.

Q2. God is invisible to me.

The bible indeed states a lot of things, but they are not all to be taken in a literal, physical sense.

The bible states in Psalms 18:9-13 that God himself came down from heaven riding a cherub bringing hail and coals of fire.

We know that didn't happen physically, it happened in a spiritual sense.

In like manner Stephen "saw" Jesus in his heavenly, divine authority. That's what being on the right hand of God means sir.

Again, you must take into account the literary genre. Poetical is not the same as narrative. Noel, you are projecting onto the scripture. PP is dead on arrival and has been since the early 70's. I will not wrangle with you on this. If that which is perfect has come knowledge, faith , and hope are no more. Period.

The Jewish way of speaking constantly intermingled physical narrative with poetical and spiritual.

And you are confused again. Faith and hope never ends. That's what abides. See v13 of 1 Cor 13.

Was Luke a Jew?

I may be confused at times, yes. But lets move on. Now, means now, yes, even in jewspeak,? Paul said now or presently when he wrote in 54-56 ad or so I Corinthians 13:13. In speaking of the resurrection in Romans 8:17-25 written a year or so later Paul states there is no hope when sight comes. Hope has and end. Hebrews 6:11. So does Faith. It is the evidence of things NOT SEEN. But when that which is perfect is come all parts will be done away. We obtain a good report by faith below. No need for it in heaven. Hebrews 11:1,2. Bro, I will not count you confused, but mistaken.

Bro John wrote:Was Luke a Jew?  

Yup, a true Jew spiritually and thus would have been steeped in the scriptures and all Hebrew idioms.

Bro John wrote:Paul states there is no hope when sight comes.  Hope has and end.   

Really don't know what you're talking about. Paul states no such thing. He's simply saying don't hope for visible, physical things... Our hope is for the invisible, spiritual things. Same in Hebrews 11:1-2

Bro John wrote:Hebrews 6:11

He's talking about perseverance and hope to the end...of the old covenant, the old heaven and earth. That doesn't mean hope is extinguished at that moment in time. You are reading far too much into that my friend!

Goodbye, sir

Earliest known full preterist work.

The Second Advent Of The Lord Jesus Christ: A Past Event (1845) - Robert Townley

http://www.preteristcentral.com/pdf/pdf%20books/1845_townley_second-advent-past.pdf