First, Christ is the true Israel of God.

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First, Christ is the true Israel of God.

Post by zone on Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:44 pm

http://www.twoagespilgrims.com/doctrine/?p=5

First, Christ is the true Israel of God.
In explaining God’s promise to Abraham in Genesis 22:17-18, the apostle Paul says that “in [Abraham's] offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.” And who is Abraham’s “offspring”? Paul says in Galatians 3:16 that since the text uses the singular, “offspring,” it is referring to Christ. Christ is the Israel of God, Abraham’s Offspring.
Thus, Matthew interprets all of the life of Jesus, from birth to death, as the ultimate fulfillment of the history of Israel as a nation.
Old Testament
Matthew
Pharaoh sought to kill the baby who was to become mediator of the old covenant.Herod sought to kill the baby who was to become mediator of the new covenant.
Israel crossed the sea, called a “baptism” by Paul in 1 Cor 10:1-2.Jesus went into the river to be baptized (Mat 3:13.
The cloud, the Spirit of God, hovered over the Israelites in their journey (Exo 40:38).The Spirit hovered over Jesus at his baptism (Mat 3:16).
Israel was tempted in the wilderness for 40 years (Num 32:13).Jesus was tempted in the wilderness for 40 days (Mat 4:1).
Moses read the old covenant to Israel at Mount Sinai (Exo 19:2-3).Jesus explained life in the new covenant on a mountain (Mat 5:1).
Isaiah ascribes God’s chosen “Servant” in whom he delights to Israel (Isa 42:1, 44:1).Matthew ascribes Isaiah’s “Servant” to Jesus (Mat 12:18; cf Mat 3:17).
Isaiah’s “Servant” “has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows” (Isa 53:4).Jesus “took our illnesses and bore our diseases” (Mat 8:17)
Second, the Church is the true Israel of God.
Paul shows in his epistles that from the beginning, God already intended to include in his covenant not only Abraham’s blood descendants, but also Abraham’s faith descendants. Those who are in Christ, namely believers from “all the nations,” are the true children of Abraham (Gal 3:7-9, 29; Rom. 9:6-8). It is not only those who have the external, physical sign of circumcision, but those who have the inward circumcision of the heart by the Spirit of Christ who belong to Israel (Rom 2:28-29; Phil 3:3).
Therefore, since Jesus is the true Israel of God, all those who are united to him by faith are also counted as the true Israel of God (Gal 6:16).
If God’s blessings are given only to Abraham and all people like him who have faith in Christ, what then of those who do not have this same faith? One of the ways in which Jesus pictures Judgment Day is the Son of Man meting out blessings and curses to everyone based on their treatment of God’s people. On that last day, he will say to the sheep, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom… [because] as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.” But to the goats, he will say, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire… [because] as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me” (Mat 25:31-46). Why is this a basis for judgment? Because love for the brethren is one of the marks of a true believer (1 John 3:14).
The fruit of faith in a true believer is not lobbying the White House to support Israel and bomb Iran, but loving the brethren – the Israel of God – whether they are Jews or Gentiles. Thus, blessings and curses are pronounced by God on people based on how they treated believers, not on how they handled national Israel.
Third, Canaan, the Promised Land, was only a type of the New Heaven and New Earth.
God not only promised innumerable children and many nations to Abraham; he also promised land to him and his descendants (Gen 17:8). And all that God promised to the Israelites in terms of real estate were given to them, as Joshua 21:43-45 says,

“Thus the Lord gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers… Not one word of all the good promises that the Lord had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.”
Hebrews chapter 11 points out that Abraham knew that Canaan was not the final Promised Land where he would settle. Why? Because “he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God” (Heb 11:9-10). Abraham knew that God’s promised land extended far beyond what he could see. Our Old Testament heroes of the faith “all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth” (Heb 11:13). No earthly promise of blessing to Israel remains unfulfilled.
How then could dispensationalists say that the land of Canaan belongs to Israel forever, when even Abraham, the first Israelite, did not acknowledge the land as his permanent dwelling place? All the heroes of our faith “did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us” (Heb 11:13-16, 39-40). Could that “something better” be the land of Canaan in the millennium? Absolutely not! “They desire[d] a better country, that is, a heavenly one” (Heb 11:16). In the same way, all of us in Christ throughout the ages are not to get excited about a millennial, earthly Jerusalem, but are to wait for an eternal “new heavens and a new earth” (2 Pet 3:13).
Fourth, the temporal, earthly kingdom of David was only a type of the eternal, heavenly kingdom of Christ.
At his trial, Jesus was asked by Pilate if he was the King of the Jews. Jesus replied, as always, in spiritual terms not understood by unbelievers, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36). Why then, do dispensationalists insist on teaching that Jesus will reign from an earthly throne in Jerusalem – a view that Jesus himself denied?
The apostles also interpreted the temporal kingdom of David as such – a type of Christ’s heavenly kingdom. In his Pentecost sermon, Peter saw God’s promise to David “that he would set one of his descendants on his throne,” and that this Son would sit at God’s right hand in his heavenly reign, as fulfilled by Christ himself (2 Sam 7:16; Acts 2:30, 34). During the Jerusalem council, James interpreted Amos’ prophecy of the restoration of David’s kingdom as being fulfilled by “all the Gentiles who are called by my name” (Amos 9:11-12; Acts 15:15-18). David’s eternal throne is not the millennial kingdom of Israel, but the heavenly, universal Kingdom of Christ made up of Jews and Gentiles.
Were Peter and James “spiritualizing” Amos’ prophecy by not interpreting it “literalistically”? Not at all. They were looking at Old Testament prophecies as types and shadows of Christ’s person and work in the New Testament. They were interpreting Scripture with Scripture, not Scripture with newspapers, TV, and prophecy conferences.
Bizarre Results
When Scripture is interpreted by Scripture, when the Old Testament is interpreted by the New, and when unclear texts are interpreted by the clear, the result is a single, cohesive Biblical story of man’s redemption through Christ, revealed progressively by God from Genesis to Revelation. Note the simplicity and unspectacularity of amillennialism:

In contrast, literalistic interpretive principles used by dispensationalists result in innovative and bizarre teachings requiring complex timelines and charts:

We will look only at the teaching about the rebuilt Temple with animal sacrifices for now, and the rest in later posts.

http://www.twoagespilgrims.com/doctrine/?p=5
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Re: First, Christ is the true Israel of God.

Post by Son of Israel on Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:26 am

Great article, except toward the end where he says;
"the next prophetic event"...

"Second coming of Christ after a brief period of apostacy and revelation of antichrist ("antichrist" capitalized even!) resurrection of believers and unbelievers, judgement day, new heaven and new earth."

I state this is false doctrine.
I state this is dispensationalsim barely even modified.

Just like the land promise was fulfilled in Joshua's day isn't believed by dispensationalists...
Neither is the New Marriage Covenant "presence" of the Lord "come" understood by dispensationalists.
Neither is the present "Kingdom of God within you" understood by dispensationalists.
Neither is the judgement of our lives "right now until the last day by the words spoken by Jesus" understood by dispensationalists.
Neither is the resurrection of the just and the unjust understood by dispensationalists, who put it all off into a future day on a calendar.
Neither do the dispensationalists see nor live in the New Heavens and New Earth NOW... and never will because they refuse to see it.

But just for fun...
Let's just pretend that one of those things is true for now... how about, a future bodily resurrection and judgement?

In one of the first churches I attended, they taught a doctrine of resurrection something like this;

"Some day, very soon", they said, (this was about 35 years ago lol!) the Lord will make his "second coming".
(I could never find that term "second coming" in scriptures, which should have been my first clue. "He'll come soon" [and didn't] should have been another clue, now that I see it wasn't "soon". The way to tell false prophets is if it comes to pass).
"When He comes", as they said, "He will raise everyone from the dead, who knew about Him".
(who "knew" about Him? When I asked how they determine that, it was another odd topic but I digress)
(I asked where? got a million answers. My favorite was "probably somewhere inside of Sinai LOL! Nobody could tell me. They were ready to tell me one thing, but had no clue of any details!)
I asked why at Sinai at all? But really more so, why INSIDE a mountain? Another answer was also at Sinai, but under heavy cloud cover... the consensus of people seemed to guess that it had to be unseen from the world, and it had to be where there was oxygen to breathe lol! Many dif answers, but the one that stands out was that "because the world won't see what and where it happens".
Okay, I said, what is the purpose of it?
The answer again varied, but mainly they felt that "judgement" was a calendar event in the future and that wasn't questionable. That God had to make a decision "then" (lol! Like that was neccessary)
Another answer was so that we could stand there, sheep and goats, in a long long line, all looking one at another of who they may have not fed or gave water or clothed (lol! But it seemed important to them that the unjust stew in their own juices at that time hehe. hooboy)

Also, they thought that Jesus was going to be sitting in a flesh and bone body on a huge throne (a white throne or otherwise, depending only upon the level of confusion of those "teaching me" as to 'when' where how...)
As we stand in this long line, we see somebody in front of Jesus waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay up there in the front. We can't hear them, but then they start wailing and gnashing their teeth as they saw Abraham Isaac and Jacob enter the kingdom (somehow... how would they "see that"? lol!... and they themselves thrust out, led off into Jesus left hand, into a hot boiling place lol!)
But there was another person who evidently could be seen as being a sheep, and *poof* Jesus cast a bolt of white light and they began to "shine" like a comet or something, lol!
Then of course, there is the idea of "every eye shall see" scenario where in some futuristic setting, Jesus comes "bodily" in such a manner that "every eye that ever existed" somehow all see him together at once lol! (close circuit tv? hooboy! I need to get a big screen it looks like)
Okay... this is way too much for me revisiting that non-sense.

The bodily resurrection into judgement. hooboy...

Some folks are standing in a graveyard during a funeral when all the sudden, a bunch of hands start clawing their way up out of graves...good movie fodder the dispensationalists generate to the jewish movie producers with this non-sense of a "future resurrection" scenario.
Or better yet, they blast out as minutemen antiballistic missles up into the air lol! There they meet the Lord floating around in the air (in this scenario) and "so shall ever be with the Lord" as floating around in the air they supposed. But this scenario doesn't explain the "judgement", unless you THEN go somewhere and judge the evil, who evidently ALSO blast or claw their way up out of the ground...
Then of course you have the christian airline pilots who have to be part of that scenario, and it is "suddenly" of course, as I was explained, so THEY are zapped out of their plane into the air somewhere... woe to the passengers... but who cares, right?

What is the point of all those ideas anyway? It is incredible to watch the "natural mind" attempt to force Spiritual realities into physical futuristic and impossible events!

I could give you hundreds of silly futuristic scenarios I've been told by different religions centering around "second coming" and "antichrist revealed" and a singularity "resurrection" of wicked and evil people and odd judgement scenarios...
I've even heard some folk waaaaaaaay out there say that this planet will be destroyed, and a new one put in orbit around the sun, where the kingdom of god would then be established....

Wow folks.

If there is anything such as "apostacy", this is it.
"Futurism".

Let us quit standing around staring up for some mythical "second coming" and go into that upper room and receive Him!

Let us throw away other men's ideas and search God out diligently in Spirit and in truth and Worship Him in Spirit, for HE IS SPIRIT and desires to INDWELL each of us by His Spirit in coming, in resurrection, in judgement of Life in His New Heavens and New Earth Now, while it is called To Day.

Blessings dear Sister Zone and everyone!
Bruce
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Re: First, Christ is the true Israel of God.

Post by zone on Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:51 am

wow!
now that's entertainment!

one problem though Bruce.

i don't want to BE Jesus.

i want to SEE Him, and talk to Him, and be with Him.

if He isn't real i got gipped.

zone

also: in your scenario sunny does this planet get cleaned up? or.....where do we live after we croak?

above you said what it ISN'T LIKE.

so please now tell me what it is and will be like.
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Re: First, Christ is the true Israel of God.

Post by Son of Israel on Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:57 am

Hi Zone,
Above I demonstrated what it isn't like.
I've been demonstrating all along prior what it IS with scriptures, so it would be redundant to say it again.

I DO want to BE JESUS Zone. Of course! That is why I've died to myself. Who "else" would I possibly want to be but ALL IN ALL with HIM as ONE in every way??
Didn't Jesus also want to be Christ? If not, why did He submit to dying to Himself so that He would be Christed and be ONE with God?

Why would you possibly not want to be ONE with Christ zone? I don't get that at all.

I want Jesus to live in ME. BE ME.
Jesus WANTS to live in ME. BE ME.
I DIE so that HE lives in ME AS Himself IN ME.
The only "I AM" I will tolerate in me is Christ Himself. NOT MY OLD DEAD SELF.
Jesus wants to be RAISED UP in ME.
Jesus wants to be my LIFE. My RESURRECTION LIFE.
I Let Him, I die so that HE CAN BE RESURRECTION LIFE in ME.
He is my Hidden Life within His Temple body of this flesh that He bought.
The personal identification of I AM is raised from the dead IN ME.
We who are called by the NAME of the Lord.
Two have become one, a great mystery as Paul said, but true none the less.
I live not unto myself.
Christ in me is my hope of Glory.
Not ME in ME my hope.

I am with Him. I talk to Him and Him me.
He is REAL.
He is with me always unto the ends of forever.
He shall never leave nor forsake me.

I SEE HIM.
How?
With Eyes to See!
I behold His glorious face now;

(2Co 3:18) But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.

(2Co 4:6) Seeing it is God, that said, Light shall shine out of darkness, who shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Unlike in the old days when the glory couldn't be perceived with eyes incapable of seeing;

(2Co 3:7) But if the ministration of death, written, and engraven on stones, came with glory, so that the children of Israel could not look stedfastly upon the face of Moses for the glory of his face; which glory was passing away:

The next thing, is seeing Him "as He is"...
These carnal eyes sure can't see Him "as He is" and sure never will.

When I see Him as 1 John 3:2, it is because I am FINALLY out of this miserable physical body, Exalted ALL IN ALL in HIS Omnipresence, Omnipotence, Omniscience. That "change" Paul talked about in 1 Cor 15. As far beyond a physical body as the earth or moon is from the stars in comparison.

After this flesh is put off, "WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM" in totality in Glory exactly like He is One with His Father all in all.

Everything I just shared is the Gospel. I can give you the verses again, but now I simply give you personal witness what they mean.

"Where do we live after we croak?"
I croaked in the waters of baptism and I live in Christ. Forever.
But I assume you say "Where" meaning after the physical body dies?
According to Paul, that is a foolish question;

(1Co 15:35) But some one will say, How are the dead raised? and with what manner of body do they come?
(1Co 15:36) Thou foolish one, that which thou thyself sowest is not quickened except it die:

But you can bet, it isn't dependent upon this planet's continued existence. In fact, in just about 30 million years, our yellow sun's death throes, when it runs out of hydrogen, expands the sun into a red giant with a diameter larger than the orbit of mars. The earth will have been long consumed by fire by then. What does it matter what becomes of this planet after my body croaks anyway? It's not like all things aren't ours. It's not like we "need a physical place" somewhere lol.
The many mansions in my Father's house are those folks in whom He is preparing a habitation for each and every one of us within an of everyone else of the Spirits of just men made perfect.
As carnal creatures, it is difficult to shake the "physical" things that our eyes mistakenly think are "real". The carnal mind always attempts to force spiritual things into physical manifestations "in the future". It is natural to do.
But some day, something we've read, or something someone said, the Lord will quicken it into the spiritual reality that it is and then we will SEE.
He promises Smile
I love you Zone. Blessings in Christ my dear.
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Re: First, Christ is the true Israel of God.

Post by Strangelove on Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:58 am

Son of Israel wrote:What is the point of all those ideas anyway? It is incredible to watch the "natural mind" attempt to force Spiritual realities into physical futuristic and impossible events!
Whats impossible?

(Matthew 19:26) But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

(Luke 1:37) For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Do you think a God who can speak the heaven and Earth into existance is incapable of putting on a global panoramic display in the sky at Christs second advent....or any other show?

Did God perform any miracles Bruce? Or is the entire bible to be read metaphorically? Cool

Was Christ actually ressurected from the dead? Did he actually appear to His disciples post-ressurection? Did they actually see Him going up through the air and off in a cloud?

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Re: First, Christ is the true Israel of God.

Post by Son of Israel on Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:44 am

It is impossible for God to lie Doc.

(1Co 15:46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

So no, it isn't possible for Him to do a futuristic "second advent bodily" thing after explaining everything is Spiritually fulfilled.

All things are possible with what God says. But is impossible for him to lie and go against what He has sworn with an oath and fulfilled. He NEVER speaks of a "second coming" and all the futuristic natural stuff that goes with it. Because that has no spiritual discernment or meaning, it is carnally interpreted as "natural" events.

Global panoramic display lol. C'mon doc. You have just GOT to be kidding?! But I do love sci fi, I gotta admit. Let's make it into a movie. We can air it right after the bodies come up out of the ground movie Smile

Ok, I'm done. I'll see ya 'round bro.
(thanks for the new idea of a global panoramic display. I really thought I'd heard them all dude, I love that one though lol)
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Re: First, Christ is the true Israel of God.

Post by Strangelove on Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:25 am

Son of Israel wrote:It is impossible for God to lie Doc.

(1Co 15:46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

So no, it isn't possible for Him to do a futuristic "second advent bodily" thing after explaining everything is Spiritually fulfilled.

Your....your going to use this verse as a blanket statement for absolutely EVERYTHING??

So answer me this....did Christ have an actual physical natural body and after Pentacost have a spiritual body? If the answer is yes, then God lied.

Son of Israel wrote:
He NEVER speaks of a "second coming" and all the futuristic natural stuff that goes with it.
He speaks of it many, many times Bruce but you have chosen to metaphoricate ( Very Happy ) every sigle verse that talks of it.

Son of Israel wrote:
Global panoramic display lol. C'mon doc. You have just GOT to be kidding?! But I do love sci fi, I gotta admit. Let's make it into a movie. We can air it right after the bodies come up out of the ground movie
Oh mocking?

Are we to infer from this incredulous tone that the entire body of orthodox scholars and every single ancient creed that believe in the bodily second advent just didnt have a clue?

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