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The One True God

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The One True God Empty The One True God

Post by strangelove Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:32 pm



Last edited by strangelove on Sat Jan 28, 2023 3:21 pm; edited 68 times in total
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The One True God Empty John 20:28 - My Lord and my God

Post by strangelove Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:34 pm

John 20:28 (KJV)  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 

Thomas clearly exclaims "my Lord and my God" to Jesus. Understandable as seeing Jesus is seeing God the Father. He's the image of the invisible God.

Look back a few chapters where Thomas and Peter are asking Jesus about which way to go,  and how to see the Father.

John 14:5-9 (KJV)  Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Thomas didn't call Jesus God, he simply declared "seeing" both Jesus and God the Father when in Jesus' presence.

If he clearly called Jesus Lord and God it would be more like  "Jesus.... you are my Lord, and you are also my God"  Trying to claim Thomas thought Jesus was Yahweh God almighty is ludicrous. Jews read the shema everyday. Hear O Israel Yahweh is ONE.


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The One True God Empty Forgiving Sins

Post by strangelove Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:38 pm

Jesus could forgive sins because he was working worth God's authority, and his father was working through him.  

And Jesus also gave his disciples the same authority through God's holy spirit. Does that make them Yahweh God almighty too? Course not.   

John 20:22-23 (KJV)  And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.


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The One True God Empty One God Verses

Post by strangelove Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:50 pm

John 17:3 (KJV)  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 Corinthians 8:3-6 (KJV)  But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Ephesians 4:5-6 (KJV)  One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 (KJV)  For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

James 2:19 (KJV)  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Deuteronomy 6:4-5 (KJV)  Hear, O Israel: The LORD [YAHWEH] our God is one LORD [YAHWEH]:
And thou shalt love the LORD [YAHWEH] thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Deuteronomy 4:35 (KJV)  Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD [YAHWEH] he is God; there is none else beside him.

Deuteronomy 4:39 (KJV)  Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD [YAHWEH] he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Mark 12:28-34 (KJV)  And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV)  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Timothy 6:14-16 (KJV)  That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1 Timothy 1:17 (KJV)  Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:25 (KJV)  To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Isaiah 44:8 (KJV)  Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isaiah 44:24 (KJV)  Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Isaiah 45:21-22 (KJV)  Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Isaiah 45:5-6 (KJV)  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Isaiah 45:18 (KJV)  For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Isaiah 45:21 (KJV) ...and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Isaiah 46:9 (KJV)  Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

Isaiah 46:5 (KJV)  To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?

Isaiah 40:25 (KJV)  To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.

Isaiah 43:10-11 (KJV)  Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Exodus 8:10 (KJV) ...there is none like unto the LORD our God.

Exodus 9:14 (KJV) ...that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.

1 Samuel 2:2 (KJV)  There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.

2 Samuel 7:22 (KJV)  Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

Jeremiah 10:6 (KJV)  Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.

Jeremiah 10:10 (KJV)  But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

Psalms 83:18 (KJV)  That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Psalms 86:10 (KJV)  For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

1 Kings 8:59-60 (KJV)  And let these my words, wherewith I have made supplication before the LORD, be nigh unto the LORD our God day and night, that he maintain the cause of his servant, and the cause of his people Israel at all times, as the matter shall require:
That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

2 Kings 19:15 (KJV) And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.

2 Kings 19:19 (KJV)  Now therefore, O LORD our God, I beseech thee, save thou us out of his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD God, even thou only.God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.

Nehemiah 9:6 (KJV)  Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.


Last edited by strangelove on Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:59 pm; edited 21 times in total
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The One True God Empty Who is Jesus?

Post by strangelove Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:53 pm

Matthew 16:15-17 (KJV)  He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 20:31 (KJV)  But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Philippians 2:11 (KJV)  And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Acts 2:36 (KJV)  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Gabriel - “He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High” (Lk 1.32).
Gabriel - “the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God” (Lk 1.35).
God - “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased” (Mt 3.17 par.).
John the Baptist - “I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God” (Jn 1.34 NIV).
Nathaniel - “You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel” (Jn 1.49).
The Devil - “If You are the Son of God” (Mt 4.3, 6 par.).
Demon - “I know who You are—the Holy One of God” (Mk 1.24/Lk 4.34).
Demons - “You are the Son of God” (Lk 4.41, and “they knew Him to be the Christ”).
Unclean spirits - “You are the Son of God” (Mk 3.11).
Demoniac - “You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God” (Mk 5.7/Lk 8.28).
Disciples in the boat - “You are certainly God’s Son” (Mt 14.33).
Peter - “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Mt 16.16 par.).
Peter - “You are the Holy One of God” (Jn 6.69).
Martha - “I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God” (Jn 11.27).
Centurion guard - “Truly this was the Son of God” (Mt 27.54).


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The One True God Empty God's Spirit and Word

Post by strangelove Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:58 pm

1 Corinthians 2:11 (KJV)  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV)  But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Psalms 139:7-8 (KJV)  Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Psalms 33:6 (KJV)  By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Word = Logos
Breath = Spirit

John 3:5-8 (KJV)  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)  Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

James 1:18 (KJV)  Of his [The Father's] own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Word = Logos

Born of the spirit = Born by the word

Isaiah 55:10-11 (KJV)  For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Psalms 107:19-20 (KJV)  Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he saveth them out of their distresses.
He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.

Psalms 147:15 (KJV)  He sendeth forth his commandment upon earth: his word runneth very swiftly.

Hebrews 4:12-13 (KJV)  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in HIS sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Gods word described like a warrior

HIS

Psalms 119:89 (KJV) For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

New International Version
Your word, LORD, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens.

LXX Word = Logos

John 1:1 (KJV) In the beginning was the Word....


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The One True God Empty Christ's God / Not a man

Post by strangelove Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:02 pm

Ephesians 1:2-3 (KJV)  Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

John 20:17 (KJV) Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Mark 12:28-34 (KJV) And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

John 4:21-24 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Revelation 1:6, “and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.”

The God of the Jews is the father. Always has been. Only the Father.

Deuteronomy 32:6 (KJV)  Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

Psalms 89:26 (KJV)  He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.

Isaiah 64:8 (KJV)  But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Malachi 2:10 (KJV)  Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

God is not a man.

Malachi 3:6 (KJV)  For I am the LORD, I change not...

Numbers 23:19 (KJV)  God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent...

Hosea 11:9 (KJV)  ... for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.


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The One True God Empty Acts 20:28 - he obtaioned with his own blood

Post by strangelove Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:37 am

Acts 20:28 has a textual issue which leads many bible versions to translate as "he obtaioned with his own blood". So it's not a good verse as proof text Jesus is called God. Below is acceptable. It should be "blood of his own", meaning of course, of his own son.

New Revised Standard Version Acts 20:28
Keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock, of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son


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The One True God Empty Titus 2:13 - great God and saviour

Post by strangelove Sat Dec 17, 2022 3:20 pm

Titus 2:13 (KJV)  Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Care should be taken when reading certain translations of this verse as they attempt to put a trinitarian slant on it. The KJV version above is acceptable, as it harmonizes with the unambiguous teaching of scripture that the Father is the only true God. There are two persons talked of in the verse.

1) Our great God
and
2) Our Saviour Jesus Christ


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The One True God Empty Hebrews 1:8 - YOUR THRONE, GOD

Post by strangelove Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:12 pm

Hebrews 1:8 New American Standard Bible

But regarding the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE SCEPTER OF RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM

The son is not being called God here, and neither was the ancient Davidic King that the Psalm quoted (Psalm 45:6-7) originally referred to.

"Your throne God" is conveying the sense that the son, and the Davidic King, both sat on Yahweh"s throne (authority). God was their authority, and they were the anointed agents of that authority.

Below is a popular commentary that explains this.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(6) Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.--This is the rendering of the LXX., Vulg., and of the versions generally. But whether they supposed the words to be addressed to the Divine Being, or that the theocratic king is thus styled, is uncertain. The Christian use of the verse as applied to the Messiah (Hebrews 1:8, Note, New Testament Commentary) does not help us to explain how the monarch, who is the poet's theme here, could be addressed as God. The use of Elohim in Psalm 82:6; Psalm 97:7, Exodus 22:28, hardly offers a satisfactory parallel, and even 1Samuel 28:13 (where we should render, "I saw a god, &c) hardly prepares us to find such an emphatic ascription to an earthly king, especially in an Elohistic psalm. Two alternative renderings present themselves--(1) Thy throne of God is for ever . . . i.e., thy divine throne. (Comp. Psalm 31:2, "thy refuge of strength.") (2) Thy throne is of God for ever, which is grammatically preferable, and with which may be compared 1Chronicles 29:23, "the throne of the Lord." . . .


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The One True God Empty Isaiah 9:6 - The mighty God

Post by strangelove Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:21 pm

Isaiah 9:6 (KJV)  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I handle Isaiah 9:6 by saying....just because people bear a certain name, it doesn't make them that name.

I named my son Maximilian which means the greatest. I think God is the greatest not my son. But I want my son to aspire to be great. To be godly if you like. Lots of South American people call their son Jesus. Doesn't mean their son is Jesus.

The name Elijah means "My God Yahweh"... so you have this kid Elijah walking around his local villages saying "Hi.... I'm my God Yahweh". Of course, no one took this literally.

Even Christians in the book of revelation bear God's name. Doesn't mean they are the person God right?

I'm not even gonna get into the fact that El Gibbor which is usually translated mighty God in English translations is translated differently by the same translations in Ezekiel 32:21 in its plural form as just the mighty,  or mighty leaders, or mighty chiefs etc.

And don't forget. Moses is called God. The judges are called gods. Doesn't mean they are the one true God. Just means they represent God.

Plus there is the problem that if you want to take mighty God literally then for consistency you need to take everlasting father in the same way.... which is a horrid contradiction for trinitarianism because the Father and the son are supposed to be separate persons.


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The One True God Empty Luke 1:68 - visited and redeemed his people

Post by strangelove Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:28 pm

Luke 1:68-70 (KJV)  Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

If you read the verses in context they tell you exactly how God visits his people. He speaks through the  mouths of his prophets. Similarly he raised up Jesus, dwelt in him by his spirit, and Jesus spoke the words of God the Father.... like the prophets.


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The One True God Empty Hebrews 1:2 - through whom also he made the universe?

Post by strangelove Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:46 pm

Hebrews 1:2 (KJV)  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Worlds is really not a great translation. It should be ages. It's the word aionas, from aion where we get our English word aeon from, which means age or era.

165. aión ►
Strong's Concordance
aión: a space of time, an age
Original Word: αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aión
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-ohn')
Definition: a space of time, an age
Usage: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity. Its a time frame.

Word Origin
from a prim. root appar. mean. continued duration
Definition
a space of time, an age
NASB Translation
age (20), ages (6), ancient time (1), beginning of time (1), course (1), eternal (2), eternity (1), ever* (2), forever (27), forever and ever (20), forevermore (2), long ago (1), never* (1), old (1), time (1), world (7), worlds (1).

Here's the literal translation...

Young's Literal Translation
in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;

So,  God made the ages through Christ. This is talking about the risen Jesus, exalted and sitting at the right hand of the Father as God's appointed Lord over the heavens and earth.

Observe the below parallel verses that use the same word aion, age.

Ephesians 3:10-11 (Young's Literal Translation)
...that there might be made known now to the principalities and the authorities in the heavenly places, through the assembly, the manifold wisdom of God, according to a purpose of the ages (aiōnōn), which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord,

Hebrews 6:4-5 (New International Version)
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age (aiōnos).

Ephesians 1:20-22 (NIV)
...when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age (aiōni) ibut also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church

Heb 1:2-3 is not about the genesis creation. It's about the man Jesus, risen.... made superior to angels by his God, and upholding the ages by the word of God's power.


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The One True God Empty Hebrews 3:1-4 - he that built all things is God

Post by strangelove Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:07 am

Hebrews 3:1-4 (KJV)  Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

These verses are not saying that Jesus is the creator, its saying God is. In fact it specifically contrasts 3 people by use of analogy.

Moses - The house
Jesus - Builder of the house
God  - Builder of ALL things

Clearly Jesus is below God in the hierarchy, being appointed by God to his role as Builder of the house.


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The One True God Empty Colossians 1:16-17 - by him all things were created?

Post by strangelove Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:19 am

Colossians 1:16-17 "For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

This is about the NEW creation. It's not saying Jesus is the genesis creator.

Look at the context of the whole build up in this chapter.

What's the inheritance of the saints? V12
The kingdom. The new creation.

What's the kingdom of his dear son? V13
The kingdom. The new creation.

How do we have redemption and forgiveness of sins? V14
By entering the kingdom. The new creation.

Who's the firstborn from creation? V15
Jesus when resurrected, exalted to reign over all authority in his kingdom.

All of the build up is about the kingdom. The new creation in Christ.

Why would verse 16 suddenly flip to talking about the genesis creation? Even when it talks about the things of the kingdom. Powers, authorities, thrones etc etc.

V18 Head of the body and the church. The kingdom.

V20 Again this is AFTER cross. Reconciling ALL THINGS things in heaven and earth!

The entire chapter is about the kingdom. The new creation. Look at these other verses that say exactly the same thing...

1 Peter 2:13-14 (KJV)  Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

Literal Standard Version
Be subject, then, to every human creation, because of the LORD, whether to a king, as the highest,

NOTE: Verse above says creation. Doesn't always mean genesis creation. Christians are “new creations” (2 Cor. 5:17). After the resurrection, God delegated to Christ the authority to create, and when we read the Epistles we see evidence of Jesus creating things. Ephesians 2:15 refers to Christ creating “one new man” (his Body, the Church) out of Jew and Gentile. In pouring out the gift of holy spirit to each believer (Acts 2:33 and 38), the Lord Jesus has created something new in each of them, that is, the “new man,” their new nature (Gal. 6:15; Eph. 4:24).

Ephesians 1:10 (KJV)  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

NOTE: In heaven and on earth. Same language. Seen and unseen. ALL THINGS.

Ephesians 1:20-23 (KJV)  Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

NOTE: ALL THINGS.... above principalities, power, dominion etc. Its the kingdom, the new creation in Christ.

Conclusion:

Col 1:15-17 is about the NEW creation. The entire context of the chapter proves this beyond doubt, and the immediate context and examples of thrones, rulers, powers, authorities makes this abundantly clear. Jesus is not the genesis creator. It was through him that the church was created, us being that "new creation" in him.


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The One True God Empty Mark 10:18 - there is none good but one, that is, God

Post by strangelove Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:31 am

Mark 10:18 (KJV)  And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Jesus is performing a teaching here that God is the ultimate source of all good.

If trinitarians want to insist that Jesus is good therefore he must be God, then how do you explain these verses?

The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good. (Matthew 12:35).

Well done, good and faithful servant. (Matthew 25:21, 23).

And a man named Joseph, who was a member of the Council, a good and righteous man.... (Luke 23:50).

For [Barnabas] was a good man, and full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. (Acts 11:24).

Jesus did the works of his father. Therefore, ultimately, it is God's goodness being reflected by Jesus. That is why he teaches this man that only God is good.

He clearly denies that he is God in the verse.


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The One True God Empty Isaiah 43:11 - beside me there is no saviour

Post by strangelove Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:47 am

Isaiah 43:11 (KJV)  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

What God is communicating here is that he is the one ultimately who saves.

Why? Because he is the one who raises up saviours. The OT is replete with examples of God raising up saviours.

Then the Lord raised up judges who saved them from the hands of those who plundered them....When the Lord raised up judges for them, the Lord was with the judge and saved them from the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge. Judges 2:16,18

When the sons of Israel cried to the LORD, the LORD raised up a Savior for the sons of Israel to save them, Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother. Judges 3:9

But when the sons of Israel cried to the LORD, the LORD raised up a Savior for them, Ehud the son of Gera, the Benjaminite. Judges 3:15

After him came Shamgar the son of Anath, who struck down six hundred Philistines with an oxgoad; and he also saved Israel. Judges 3:31

The Lord looked at him and said, “Go in this your strength and save Israel from the hand of Midian. Have I not sent you?" Judges 6:14

Then Gideon said to God, “If You will save Israel through me, as You have spoken, behold, I will put a fleece of wool on the threshing floor. f there is dew on the fleece only, and it is dry on all the ground, then I will know that You will save Israel through me, as You have spoken.” Judges 6:36-37

The Israelites said to Gideon, “Rule over us—you, your son and your grandson—because you have saved us from the hand of Midian." Judges 8:22

For behold, you shall conceive and give birth to a son, and no razor shall come upon his head, for the boy shall be a Nazirite to God from the womb; and he shall begin to save Israel from the hands of the Philistines.” Judges 13:5

Then Jehoahaz besought the Lord, and the Lord hearkened to him; for he saw the oppression of Israel, how the king of Syria oppressed them. Therefore the Lord gave Israel a Savior, so that they escaped from the hand of the Syrians. 2 Kings 13:4-5

Therefore You delivered them into the hand of their oppressors who oppressed them, But when they cried to You in the time of their distress, You heard from heaven, and according to Your great compassion You gave them Saviors who saved them from the hand of their oppressors. Nehemiah 9:27

The Saviors will ascend Mount Zion to judge the mountain of Esau, and the kingdom will be the LORD'S. Obadiah 1:21

In the NT Jesus is clearly another saviour that God has raised. Jesus (Yahoshua) literally means YAHWEH"S SALVATION.

He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.Acts 5:31

From the seed of David, according to promise, God has raised up to Israel a Savior, Jesus. Acts 13:23

The Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 1 John 4:14

Blessed be the Lord God of Israel for He has visited us and accomplished redemption for His people and He has raised up a horn of salvation for us in the house of David His servant. Luke 1:68-69.

He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. Acts 5:31.

Without God... besides him,  there is no saviour.


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The One True God Empty The Created Man Jesus

Post by strangelove Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:07 pm

Jesus had a start date. When the holy spirit came upon Mary.

Jesus started in the womb. That was his genesis. Its clearly stated in the gospel accounts.

Matthew 1:1 (KJV)  The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Generation = start date, genesis, origin

Matthew 1:18 (KJV)  Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Birth = genesis, origin, start date

Jesus origin, genesis, start date was clearly recorded.

1078. genesis ►
Strong's Concordance
genesis: origin, birth
Original Word: γένεσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: genesis
Phonetic Spelling: (ghen'-es-is)
Definition: origin, birth
Usage: birth, lineage, descent.

Did your soul / essence start at your physical beginning? Your procreation? Clearly yes. So why would Jesus be any different? He was made like us in all things.

Hebrews 2:17 (KJV)  Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Jesus was a man like Adam. A created man. He had to be, he was the second Adam spoken of.

Romans 5:19 (KJV)  For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

This verse makes it very clear it was a MAN who was mediator...

1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Acts 2:22 (KJV) Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:


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The One True God Empty Worship

Post by strangelove Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:52 pm

It's ok to receive worship, especially if you are Yahweh God's anointed. Both David and Saul, as well as Jesus received worship. Even believers are worshipped in revelation. does that make you God almighty? Angels, pagan leaders, Jacobs older brother, Joseph, Boaz, Jonathan were all worshipped.

Revelation 3:9 (KJV)  Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

1 Chronicles 29:20 (KJV)  And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.

1 Samuel 24:8 (KJV)  David also arose afterward, and went out of the cave, and cried after Saul, saying, My lord the king. And when Saul looked behind him, David stooped with his face to the earth, and bowed himself.

1 Samuel 25:23-24 (KJV)  And when Abigail saw David, she hasted, and lighted off the ass, and fell before David on her face, and bowed herself to the ground,
And fell at his feet....

1 Kings 1:31 (KJV)  Then Bath-sheba bowed with her face to the earth, and did reverence to the king, and said, Let my lord king David live for ever.

Genesis 23:7 (KJV) And Abraham stood up, and bowed himself to [worshipped] the people of the land, even to the children of Heth.

Genesis 19:1 (KJV) And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself [worshipped] with his face toward the ground;

Genesis 33:3 (KJV) And he passed over before them, and bowed himself [worshipped] to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.

Genesis 43:26 (KJV) And when Joseph came home, they brought him the present which was in their hand into the house, and bowed themselves [worshipped] to him to the earth.

Joshua 5:14 (KJV) And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

Ruth 2:10 (KJV) Then she fell on her face, and bowed herself to the ground [worshipped], and said unto him, Why have I found grace in thine eyes, that thou shouldest take knowledge of me, seeing I am a stranger?

1 Samuel 20:41 (KJV) And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground [worshipped], and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.

Matthew 8:2 (KJV)  And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

====

There's no difference between these worship events. It's the same word used of David, Saul (in the Greek OT LXX) and Jesus in the NT.

Many bible versions simply translate it to say the leper knelt before Jesus. He certainly didn't worship him as God. All the Jews knew that God is not a man.

4352. proskuneó ►
Strong's Concordance
proskuneó: to do reverence to
Original Word: προσκυνέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: proskuneó
Phonetic Spelling: (pros-koo-neh'-o)
Definition: to do reverence to
Usage: I go down on my knees to, do obeisance to, worship.

====

Jesus has been exalted to God's right hand. Of course he's going to get a special kind of worship more than any man. He's the name above all names. He's not worshipped as God though. That's reserved for Yahweh God almighty alone. Everything is done ultimately to the glory of the one true God.

Philippians 2:9-11 (KJV)  Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


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The One True God Empty John 10:30 - I and the Father are one

Post by strangelove Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:14 pm

John 10:30 (KJV)  I and my Father are one.

What did Jesus mean by this? If you read the following verses from the same author, we hear Jesus speak of believers being one in the Father, and in Jesus in the same way. Are Christian believes also the same essence/nature as God?

John 17:20-22 (KJV)  Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

I think you would agree not.

Were Paul and Apollos one "being" or "nature"?

1 Corinthians 3:6, 8 (KJV) I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

When he says we are all one.... the below verses tell you all you need to know. And notice the last verse here where Paul emphasises there is only one God, the Father. See also 1st Corinthians 8:6.

Ephesians 4:4-6 (KJV)  There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


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The One True God Empty John 10:33 - thou, being a man, makest thyself God

Post by strangelove Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:20 pm

John 10:33 (KJV)  The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

The blind pharisees accused Jesus of claiming to be God. You don't want to take their side do you? If you read the rest of the passage you will see that Jesus flatly denies being God and clarifies that he is the son of God! And that's what he refers to when he says "I am he" later.

John 10:34-36 (KJV)  Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


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The One True God Empty Isaiah 47:4 - Only God is redeemer

Post by strangelove Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:37 pm

Isaiah 47:4 (KJV)  As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel.

Yes indeed Yahweh God almighty is our ultimate redeemer and he sent forth his son as his redemption agent as the below verses testifies. Similar to God being the only saviour, there is no redemption apart from God, but he can, and does use men as instruments to save and redeem.

Galatians 4:4-5 (KJV)  But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Romans 3:24-25 (KJV)  Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


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The One True God Empty John 1 The word was God

Post by strangelove Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:19 pm

You have to be careful with John's prologue because its very poetic.

Your word is a representation of you right? It is you. If you are on the phone to someone, and their wife asks... who's that?... they say,  it's Tony. Your word is you. But at the same time, it's not really. It's the spoken communication coming out of your mouth.

The word was with God and the word was God. God is his word. With his word he created all things. Genesis creation and new creation. With his commandments. Observe the below for God commanding the creation into being.

Psalms 33:6 (KJV)  By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
Psalms 148:5 (KJV)  Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
Isaiah 45:12 (KJV)  I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

And it was ONLY God that did this..

Isaiah 44:24 (KJV)  Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

God's commandants, in a sense, became a man because Jesus spoke only the words of God the Father. He declares this on multiple occasions.

John 12:49-50 (KJV)  For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

The word is not a person, when English bibles translate as "HE was in the beginnign with God" you can just as easily translate as "IT was in the begining with God" or "THIS was in the begining with God".

The actual word is...

3778. houtos
houtos, hauté, touto: this
Original Word: οὗτος, αὕτη, τοῦτο
Part of Speech: Demonstrative Pronoun
Transliteration: houtos, hauté, touto
Phonetic Spelling: (hoo'-tos)
Definition: this
Usage: this; he, she, it

Note the following translations....

Douay-Rheims Bible
The same was in the beginning with God.

Contemporary English Version
From the very beginning the Word was with God.

English Revised Version
The same was in the beginning with God.

Good News Translation
From the very beginning the Word was with God.

Literal Standard Version
this one was in the beginning with God;

Webster's Bible Translation
The same was in the beginning with God

World English Bible
The same was in the beginning with God.

Young's Literal Translation
this one was in the beginning with God;

But even if ypou want to tranlate as HE, there are multiple times God's attributes are personified in the bible. Take the below for example.

Lady wisdom

Proverbs 8:27-30 (KJV)  When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

Regarding "the Word was with God"

Hebrews 5:1 (KJV)  For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

Pertaining to God
πρὸς τὸν Θεόν
"Pros ton theon"
In relation to God
Relating to God
Pertaining to God

New International Version
Every high priest is selected from among the people and is appointed to represent the people in matters related to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins.

New Living Translation
Every high priest is a man chosen to represent other people in their dealings with God. He presents their gifts to God and offers sacrifices for their sins.

English Standard Version
For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins.

Berean Standard Bible
Every high priest is appointed from among men to represent them in matters relating to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins.

Berean Literal Bible
For every high priest, being taken from among men, is appointed on behalf of men in things relating to God, that he should offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins,

John 1:1 (KJV)  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

..was with God
πρὸς τὸν Θεόν
Pros ton theon

Regarding "and the Word was God"

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with “the theos,” and the Word was “theos.” Since the definite article is missing from the second occurrence of “theos” (“God,”) the usual meaning would be a “god” or “divine.” The New English Bible gets the sense of this phrase by translating it, “What God was, the Word was.”

Theos en ho logos.
Ho is the definite article, the, and it can be seen that there is a definite article with logos, but not with theos....so god can become more an adjective rather than a noun. Godly or divine was the word is a perfectly viable translation in this case.

Note the following quotation from a Greek scholar...

"The second use of theos in John 1:1c serves as a predicate adjective rather than as a predicate noun." [citation: Maximillian Zerwick, Biblical Greek, Rome: Scripta Ponificii Instituti Biblici, 1963, p. 55, par. 171; p. 57, par. 176.

Other examples of "god" without the definite article... 

Used of Herod Acts 12:22 (KJV) And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man. 

Used of Paul Acts 28:6 (KJV) Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

Conclusion:

The prologue of John 1 is incredibly poetic and is subject to many interpretations. The word is simply God's word. Verses 1 to 13 are primarily about God and his word, which represents his plans, promises and purposes which are expressed by the gospel, the good news. All these words of God were embodied by that flesh Jesus who spoke the words, taught the teachings, and did the works of his God and Father, who dwelt in him by his spirit without measure. In this way God's word became flesh.

John 1:1-14 In the beginning [of the kingdom, the new creation = the ministry of Jesus] was the word [the teaching, the gospel], and the word pertained to God, and the word was God! [Jesus declared the Father] The same [word] was in the beginning with God. All things happened through Him [God the Father], and without Him [God the Father] not even one thing happened that has happened. In him [God the Father] was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light [of God expressed by Jesus], that all men through him [Jesus expressing the word] might believe. He was not that Light [of God expressed by Jesus], but was sent to bear witness of that Light [of God expressed by Jesus]. That was the true Light [of God the Father], which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He [God the Father] was in the world, and the world was made by him [God the Father], and the world knew him [God the Father] not. [John 17:25, 1 John 3:1]. He [God the Father, in Jesus] came unto his own [Israel], and his own received him not. But as many as received him [God the Father, in Jesus], to them gave he [God the Father] power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name [Yahweh, through Jesus - John 12:44] which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the word [of God, the teachings, the good news, the light, the life] was made flesh [Jesus], and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


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The One True God Empty Statement of faith

Post by strangelove Sun Dec 25, 2022 7:57 pm

I believe in the one true God. The God of Israel who's name is Yahweh, also known as The Father, who sent Jesus and empowered him to teach about God, and to be the initiator of the new covenant to replace the old laws of Moses.

I confess that Jesus is God's Messiah, the son of God.

I believe Jesus willingly gave himself as a once and for all sacrifice for sin.

I believe Jesus, a real man, God's anointed, the Christ... died and was raised back to life, and exalted to God's right hand, and currently reigns as God's appointed Lord over all creation, including over myself.

I believe we are saved by our belief in Jesus Christ, and belief that he is what he said he is, which in the end reconciles us to the father, the only true God.
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The One True God Empty Micah 5:2 - Coming forth was from the days of eternity

Post by strangelove Sun Dec 25, 2022 11:25 pm

Micah 5:2
New International Version
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

It's wise to look at how a number of translations render this verse to get a flavour. Days of eternity is an infortunate choice of words, probably trinitarian scribes trying to push the doctrine of Jesus preexisting his conception and birth which is absurd of course.

The NIV is a decent translation. Every human being has an origin of old.... from ancient times, and in the context, its related to Bethlehem which was obviously important with regards King David, Jesse, Rachel.... important people in Jesus' lineage.

Also notice in verse 4 where the man talked about has Yahweh as his God, and he does everything by the power of his God.

God does not have a God.


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The One True God Empty John 8:58 - Before Abraham was I AM

Post by strangelove Mon Dec 26, 2022 9:46 am

John 8:58 (KJV)  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Here Jesus is simply saying before Abraham was, I am he. Who? Everything I ever claimed to be. He never claimed to be God. He claimed to be messiah, son of God.

It's not an I AM capital letters allusion to a verse in Exodus like trinitarians claim. Is the blind man also claiming to be God in John 9:9? Same Greek common personal identifier, ego eimi.

John 9:9 (KJV)  Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he. (Ego eimi)

Here's other examples of Jesus saying ego eimi, I am he, I am the one, it's me etc.

Mark 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am (ego eimi); and shall deceive many.
John 4:25-26 (KJV)  The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. (ego eimi)
John 10:36 (KJV)  Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (ego eimi)
John 13:19 (KJV)  Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he. (ego eimi)

No one claims those verses are Jesus claiming to be God.

God the Father is the original Light (Glory), and that Light existed long before Abraham. The flesh human named Jesus declared the Father. The Father dwelling in His son did the works, and in this way that body of flesh was the Light of the world, the Light from the Father shining,  similar to the rays from the sun, from God (the originator of the light) through a human being. Because the Father abiding in him did the works, and the body of flesh declared the Father to the world in terms of all the things Jesus was doing, this flesh was shining that Light of God the Father who is that Light. This flesh, Jesus, was that Light of the Father to the world, that Light which existed long before Abraham.

"I am the Light of the world."

Not the original light, but the radiance of that Light to the world, "the light of men" (John 1:4). The brightness of glory, not that original glory itself, which is God's. The image of God, not God himself (Heb 1:3). The light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus (2Cor 4:6). It is the radiance of God seen in Jesus, because God made his dwelling in him (Col 2:9).

"Abraham was glad to see my Day; He saw it and was glad."

Galatians 3:8 (KJV) And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Hebrews 11:10 (KJV) For he [Abraham] looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

"Before Abraham was, I am he."

I am the blessing.
I am the promised light to men.
I am the lamb slaughtered from the foundations of the world.
I am the messiah, the son of God, planned from the beginning.

Notice the clear and simple stated purpose of John's writings....

John 20:31 (KJV)  But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


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The One True God Empty John 17:5 - Glory I had with you

Post by strangelove Mon Dec 26, 2022 10:10 am

John 17:5 (KJV)  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Let's not forget this verse comes right on the heels of Jesus declaring in totally unambiguous language that the Father is the ONLY true God.

How can Jesus have glory with the father before the world was? Simple really, it's the same as the lamb being slain from the foundations of the world (Rev 13:8). That was the sacrifice in prospect, and John 17:5 is glory in prospect.

Yahweh God the Father has decreed all things from the beginning. He has predestined the death of his son, his glorious resurrection and glorified body, the church etc. All a reality in God's mind.

Jesus also gives glory in prospect to future believers in John 17:20-22 and Paul says each Christian was given grace before the world began in 2 Tim 1:9. Of course, no one believes these people preexisted their own birth, which is absurd.

Trinity doctrine says Jesus has always been fully God. How can he then be asking God to give him back glory that he has lost? If he's always fully God, even when he walked the earth,  then he should never need to ask for any glory. It makes zero sense.

The glory, is a glory in prospect. Look at the below verses and it all makes sense...

Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see my glory which You have given me, for You loved me before the foundation of the world.

He (the Lamb) was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but was manifested in these last times for your sake. 1 Peter 1:0.

The Lamb who had been slain from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8.


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The One True God Empty Hebrews 7:3 - Without father or mother

Post by strangelove Mon Dec 26, 2022 10:33 am

Hebrews 7:3 (KJV)  Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

This verse is simply saying that Christ as high priest in his ordination was the same as Melchizedek, in that genealogy didn't count. He wasn't a Levite, which was a requirement by the law. This was a special God ordained office. Book of Hebrews chapter 7 is clearly concerned with this...

“For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests” (Heb 7:14).

This has nothing to do with Jesus, or Melchizedeks preexistance before they were born. Read any good commentary, they don't claim this.

The verse is just reconciling the lack of priestly genealogy. To the Jews, they could believe that if Melchizedek could be a priest to Abraham without being a descendant of Aaron, the first priest, then so could Jesus Christ.
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The One True God Empty Jesus the subordinate

Post by strangelove Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:58 pm

John 14:28 (KJV)  Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 5:43-44 (KJV)  I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

John 14:10 (KJV)  Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 5:43 (KJV)  I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

John 10:25 (KJV)  Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

John 12:13 (KJV)  Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

John 12:28 (KJV)  Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

John 17:6 (KJV)  I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

John 17:8 (KJV)  For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

John 17:11 (KJV)  And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 (KJV)  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

John 7:16 (KJV)  Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 3:34 (KJV)  For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

John 12:49 (KJV)  For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 14:24 (KJV)  He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 13:16 (KJV)  Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

John 6:57 (KJV)  As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

John 5:26 (KJV)  For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

1 Corinthians 3:23 (KJV)  And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

John 10:24-25 (KJV) Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me

AGENCY, LAW OF - JewishEncyclopedia.com
The Law of Agency deals with the status of a person (known as the agent) acting by direction of another (the principal), and thereby legally binding the principal in his connection with a third person. The person who binds a principal in this manner is his agent, known in Jewish law as sheluaḥ or sheliaḥ (one that is sent): the relation of the former to the latter is known as agency (sheliḥut). The general principle is enunciated thus: A man's agent is like himself (Ḳid. 41b).


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The One True God Empty Theological Quotations

Post by strangelove Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:06 pm

“Indeed throughout the New Testament while there is belief in God the Father, in Jesus the Son and in God’s Holy Spirit, there is no doctrine of one God in three persons (modes of being), no doctrine of a ‘triune God’, a ‘Trinity’.”

- Hans Küng - Christianity, p.95
(Wiki - [Kung] "served as a theological adviser during the Second Vatican Council"

This is what God the Father reveals about Christ...

"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" - Matt 16:15-17

This is what flesh and blood reveals about Christ....

"If the eternal person who is the Son took to himself a perfect and complete human nature, what is the status of that human nature? Normally, any instance of human nature that we come into contact with is also a human person. Is the human nature of Christ, therefore, also a human person? The christology we are considering gives a twofold answer. On the one hand, the human nature of Jesus Christ is in fact a nature joined to a person, and it is therefore personal. To use the Greek term, it is en-hypostatic. But the person who personalizes the human nature of Christ is not a created human person (like all the other persons personalizing the other human natures we encounter); rather it —that is, he— is the eternal second person of the Trinity. So the human nature of Christ is personal, but with a personhood from above. Considered in itself, on the other hand, and abstracted from its personalizing by the eternal person of the Son, the human nature of Jesus Christ is simply human nature, and is not personal. The human nature of Christ, therefore, is an-hypostatic (not personal in itself) and en-hypostatic (personalized by union with the eternal person of the Son)."

- Fred Sanders "The Second Person, in Person" 2007

Is this the kind of revelation that will give the simplistic understanding of God and Christ that can bring even a child to the faith? About as clear as mud right?

"For flesh and blood (Man) has NOT revealed it to you,  but my Father in heaven" - Jesus


“Constantine probably didn’t care whether Jesus was God. He did, however, care about a
united Empire.” (Timothy Paul Jones, Christian History Made Easy, p.39).

J.N.D. Kelly: “Whatever the theology of the council was, Constantine’s own overriding motive was to secure the widest possible measure of agreement. For this reason he was not prepared to bar the door to anyone who was willing to append his signature to the creed. There is thus a sense in which it is unrealistic to speak of the theology of the council.” (Early Christian Doctrines, p.237)

“In the final irony, the emperor’s deathbed baptism would be performed by an Arian, the same Eusebius of Nicomedia whose interests Constantine had protected in 325” (Cambridge Companion to the Age of Constantine, p.130). Constantine was baptized on Easter 337 by the Arian bishop Eusebius of Nicomedia, and died on May 22, the day of Pentecost, while preparing a campaign against Persia (Eusebius: Life of Constantine, p.49)

“it is no longer possible to defend the divinity of Jesus by reference to the claims of Jesus”

- Brian Hebblethwaite, The Incarnation: Collected Essays in Christology (Cambridge: University, 1987), 74

“And this,” Jesus adds, “is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent.” The proper order of the words is, “That they may know Thee and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent, as the only true God.” Consequently, therefore, the Holy Spirit is also understood, because He is the Spirit of the Father and Son, as the substantial and consubstantial love of both. For the Father and Son are not two Gods, nor are the Father and Son and Holy Spirit three Gods; but the Trinity itself is the one only true God.

 - Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, series 1, vol.7, St. Augustine: Lectures or Tractates on the Gospel According to St. John, tractate CV, chapter XVII.1-5, paragraph 3, translated into English by Rev. John Gibb, D.D.

"The term “Trinity” is not a Biblical term, and we are not using Biblical language when we define what is expressed by it as the doctrine that there is one only and true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three coeternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence. A doctrine so defined can be spoken of as a Biblical doctrine only on the principle that the sense of Scripture is Scripture. And the definition of a Biblical doctrine in such un-Biblical language can be justified only on the principle that it is better to preserve the truth of Scripture than the words of Scripture. The doctrine of the Trinity lies in Scripture in solution; when it is crystallized from its solvent it does not cease to be Scriptural, but only comes into clearer view. Or, to speak without figure, the doctrine of the Trinity is given to us in Scripture, not in formulated definition, but in fragmentary allusions."

- “Trinity” in ISBE (vol.5, pp.3012f) by B.B. Warfield

"Christian theology does not believe God to be a person. It believes Him to be such that in Him a trinity of persons is consistent with a unity of Deity. In that sense it believes Him to be something very different from a person."

- (C.S. Lewis - Christian Reflections, p.79)

“Our adversaries … are fanatics about words because they want us to demonstrate the truth of the trinitarian article … by asking us to assent to the term homoousios”. The Cambridge Companion goes on to say that “trinitarian terms such as homoousios are for Luther a ‘stammering’ and ‘babbling’”.  

- The Cambridge Companion to the Trinity (p.151) quotes Luther

[Luther] declared such a term as homoousios to be unallowable in the strict sense, because it represents a bad state of things when such words are invented in the Christian system of faith: “… but if my soul hates the word homoousios and I prefer not to use it, I shall not be a heretic; for who will compel me to use it … Although the Arians had wrong views with regard to the faith, they were nevertheless very right in this …that they required that no profane and novel word should be allowed to be introduced into the rules of faith.”  

- (History of Dogma, vol.7, ch.4, p.225)

"… while [in the New Testament] there is belief in God the Father, in Jesus the Son, and in God’s Holy Spirit, there is no doctrine of one God in three persons (modes of being), no doctrine of a ‘triune God’, a ‘Trinity’.… according to the New Testament, the principle of unity is clearly not the one divine ‘nature’ (physis) that is common to several entities, as people were to think after the neo-Nicene theology of the fourth century. For the New Testament, as for the Hebrew Bible, the principle of unity is clearly the one God (ho theos: the God = the Father), from whom are all things and to whom are all things. … where does this doctrine of the Trinity really come from? The answer is that it was a product of the great paradigm shift from the early Christian apocalyptic paradigm to the early church Hellenistic paradigm."  

- Hans Küng, one of the greatest Catholic theologians of the 20th century, in the section titled, “No doctrine of the Trinity in the New Testament,” in his classic work, Christianity: Essence, History, and Future (page 95)

"[The Trinity] is not clearly or explicitly taught anywhere in Scripture, yet it is widely regarded as a central doctrine, indispensable to the Christian faith. In this regard, it goes contrary to what is virtually an axiom of biblical doctrine, namely, that there is a direct correlation between the scriptural clarity of a doctrine and its cruciality to the faith and life of the church."

- Millard Erickson, a prominent specialist on trinitarian doctrine and the author of Christian Theology (God in Three Persons: A Contemporary Interpretation of the Trinity, p.11)

"When speaking of the Trinity, we need to realize that we are talking about one what and three who’s. The one what is the Being or essence of God; the three who’s are the Father, Son, and Spirit."

- James R. White, The Forgotten Trinity, p.26

“The Bible lacks the express declaration that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of equal essence and therefore in an equal sense God himself. And the other express declaration is also lacking, that God is God thus and only thus, i.e., as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These two express declarations, which go beyond the witness of the Bible, are the twofold content of the Church doctrine of the Trinity”

- (Karl Barth, CD, I, 1, 437)

"But many doctrines are accepted by evangelicals as being clearly taught in the Scripture for which there are no proof texts. The doctrine of the Trinity furnishes the best example of this. It is fair to say that the Bible does not clearly teach the doctrine of the Trinity. In fact, there is not even one proof text, if by proof text we mean a verse or passage that ‘clearly’ states that there is one God who exists in three persons … The above illustrations prove the fallacy of concluding that if something is not proof texted in the Bible we cannot clearly teach the results … If that were so, I could never teach the doctrine of the Trinity or the deity of Christ or the deity of the Holy Spirit."

- Charles C. Ryrie, author of Ryrie Study Bible, and longtime professor of systematic theology at Dallas Theological Seminary (Basic Theology, pp. 89-90)

"God is what happens between Jesus and his Father in their spirit…This makes God an event, not a being." - Ted Peters, "God Happens: The Timeliness of the Triune God," The Christian Century, April 1, 1998, p. 342.

"The simple indeed, I will call them unwise and unlearned—who always constitute the majority of believers, are startled at the dispensation of the three in one." - Tertullian, Wolfson, op. cit., Philosophy of the Church Fathers, p. 105

"Whatever else may be said about the doctrine of the Trinity, it is safe to say that in the history of Christian doctrine there has been no single, universally accepted articulation of the specific way in which it is to be understood. Every attempt to articulate the doctrine in detail has had its detractors and has been viewed as erring in one direction or the other. Articulations stressing the unity of God to the relative de-emphasis of divine threeness have most often been labelled modalist or Sabellian: whereas, those stressing the threefold  existence of deity to the relative neglect of divine unity have been castigated as tri-theistic or polytheistic. It has seemed next to impossible to achieve a balanced presentation of the triune nature of God that is both relatively detailed and also acceptable to most sincere Christians with theological sensitivity." - Morris, op., cit., Logic of God Incarnate, pp. 207 and 208.

“The divine and human natures exist in a single being, although how that can be is the greatest mystery of the faith. - ”Justo Gonzalez, A History of Christian Thought (Abingdon Press, Nashville, 1992), pp. 222 and 223.

".contemporary exegetes [ Bible teachers] affirm unanimously that the Old Testament did not bring to the Jewish people a clear and distinct Revelation of the existence of a plurality of persons in God. In this they agree wvith the clear and frequent affrmation of Fathers such as Irenaeus, Hilary, and Gregory of Nazianzus: that the doctrine of the Trinity is revealed only in the New Testament." - Distinguised trinitarian scholar Bertrand de Margerie, The christian Trinity in History, Translated by Edmund J. Fortman. p. 3.


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