Are We Responsible for our Family's Salvation?

by **strangelove** Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:16 pm

I've been thinking about this one alot lately and I know at least one other friend has too.

So where do we draw the line concerning bringing our family members to Jesus?

At the end of the day its Jesus who draws people to Himself, yes He may use us to influence our family members but if its His will they come to Him they will come right?

I have a buddhist wife and two kids...3 and 6 year olds.

I tell them about Jesus, lead as Holy a life as Christs sanctification allows me...but I feel I'm not really trying that hard with converting them.

What do you guys think?

by MUSKOKAMAN Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:32 pm

I too have been wondering a lot about this Doc. and I repent every day for my crimes against the Lord some of which I seem to have a very hard time changing my ways. I have 3 children all of whom were born out of wedlock but their mother and I did get married in 2000 and still are today. Problem is we were never a religous family and now that my youngest is 14 it is proving very difficult to bring them to God with video games and everything that is out there to distract them. At the risk of sounding selfish I would ask for prayers to help achieve my goal of bringing all of us to God for I love them all and would not suffer them to suffer eternal damnation. This may have been wrong but I went so far as to tell the Lord in my prayers that I would sacrifice my own soul if he would accept theirs and take them to heaven. My soul is wracked with grief over this and I do not know what else to do.

by **strangelove** Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:23 pm

When I look at my kiddies....growing up...doing their thing...all I think is, theres not much else I can do but to set a good example.

Let them grow up and become adults and they can hear the good news for themselves and make their minds up.

Mine are 3 and 6 though. You are a bit further along the line eh?

Tricky one. I'm not really in a position to give you advice, but my heart says dont push it.

Do you feel like your in a rush?

Are you thinking....what happens if the end comes and they are still unbelievers?

by ada Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:48 pm

Try hard as they are still very young and on your influence.
My kids are at least 15 years older and boy its even hard to
just talk to them longer then 5 minutes.This is true for those
still living at home.The others have more patience if they are on
a visit..
If i reflect back i sure have missed some good opportunities in the
past and if feel rather sorry about that..

by MUSKOKAMAN Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:09 pm

Yep that's exactly what I have been thinking Doc.

I wouldn't even be here if the Holy spirit hadn't guided me here and I have for months felt a great sense of urgency to this. Don't ask me to explain it I can't

But it has been put in my heart that there is much more to the whole 2012 thing than what meets the eyes.

All I ask of the Lord is to save those I love I ask for myself but not with the same ferventness I ask for others

The flood is coming soon I feel it yet feel powerless to do anything about it.

I love many but see the wickedness of man now stronger than ever before and am mocked by those I love when I try to persuade them to take up the cross.

I am guilty of breaking every commandment save 1 and already feel condemned for my iniquities.

I have asked Jesus to save me many times but feel as though he didn't hear me perhaps I am wrong I don't really know.

I wish he would just talk to me 1 on 1 so I felt more secure in my new found faith in him. Maybe he did and I didn't realize it.

I have tried everything to stop myself from sinning and I am starting to wonder if I am just a bad seed.

I have often thought I was the seed that fell on the rock and when I see the picture next to the screen I am writing on with Jesus saving the child from the raging river I just break out in tears of joy in realizing his utter love and compassion for all mankind.

Oh dear Jesus give me a sign that I am on the right path I try very hard to be good but the sin of my past catches up with me always and my flesh is so weak I feel I cannot go on much longer. I long to be with you 24 hours of every day. I try to teach my children of you but their ears are deafened by the demons which persecute us all. My wife will have a very hard time accepting you and this distresses me greatly. I have lost most of all my material wealth and I do not care but am worried about the future of my Family and myself and our spiritual lives constantly. Right now as I write this tears stream down my face and I know not why. All I ask is that you save us from eternal damnation.

The poverty we shall soon be going through will put much strain upon my family and I know it will be very difficult for who can grow anything without water.

After a lifetime of hard labour my body is broken my back is broke in 3 places, my ankles swell daily and cause me much pain.I have been stricken with cellulitis which has never completely healed so my legs swell to enormous proportions if I am on them for long. The sins of my life have left my body practically useless my lungs are shot my heart is diseased I have become morbidly obese in only the last 10 years and my strength I feel slipping away almost daily.

Lord if you don't do something soon I fear it will be too late.

by zone Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:23 am

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:I too have been wondering a lot about this Doc. and I repent every day for my crimes against the Lord some of which I seem to have a very hard time changing my ways. I have 3 children all of whom were born out of wedlock but their mother and I did get married in 2000 and still are today. Problem is we were never a religous family and now that my youngest is 14 it is proving very difficult to bring them to God with video games and everything that is out there to distract them. At the risk of sounding selfish I would ask for prayers to help achieve my goal of bringing all of us to God for I love them all and would not suffer them to suffer eternal damnation. This may have been wrong but I went so far as to tell the Lord in my prayers that I would sacrifice my own soul if he would accept theirs and take them to heaven. My soul is wracked with grief over this and I do not know what else to do.

musky

The Lord works ALL things for your good.this is a hard thing to deal with. when i got saved, i took a photo of my kids and wrote:

Lord, please please save my babies.

i love you, and i accept whatever you decide. but you are good, and strong, and able. turn their hearts to you. i want them be with me, when i see you in your Glory.please Lord.i entrust them to your care, and i stand on your promises, for they are yours, not mine.

since then my son got saved, and my daughter prays and believes what i preach though is 19, and may have to learn the hard way....i trust Him to save them.

dont offer yourself as a substitute. its dishonouring to Jesus.

petition Him continually to reveal Himself to them. every prayer time. but TRUST.

by MUSKOKAMAN Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:36 pm

Thank you very much Zone I know, just like my children I have much to learn when it comes to knowing God.

You are most certainly in my prayers

by **strangelove** Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:37 pm

The Holy Spirit brings peace and joy to the believer Musky.

by MUSKOKAMAN Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:34 pm

Thanks Doc. though it's not my belief that I question it is my current state of affairs and as I have left it all in Gods lap I need a little confirmation that I am on the right path is that too much to ask?

by Grandpa Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:17 am

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:I too have been wondering a lot about this Doc. and I repent every day for my crimes against the Lord some of which I seem to have a very hard time changing my ways. I have 3 children all of whom were born out of wedlock but their mother and I did get married in 2000 and still are today. Problem is we were never a religous family and now that my youngest is 14 it is proving very difficult to bring them to God with video games and everything that is out there to distract them. At the risk of sounding selfish I would ask for prayers to help achieve my goal of bringing all of us to God for I love them all and would not suffer them to suffer eternal damnation. This may have been wrong but I went so far as to tell the Lord in my prayers that I would sacrifice my own soul if he would accept theirs and take them to heaven. My soul is wracked with grief over this and I do not know what else to do.

It sounds like we have almost the same past/old life. I didn't marry my wife until the year my last child was born. He is 15 now and can hardly be separated from his phone and video games. The music he listens to and the tv shows he and my wife watch, I just don't care for.

Easter of 2010 I sat my whole family down after church and I got this prayer from this little pamphlet. It was called a prayer of salvation. I told my family I wanted all of them to pray this prayer out loud individually starting with my daughter. She kind of just looked at me like wondering if I was joking. (I have quite the strange sense of humor sometimes) So I took the pamphlet back and said I would start with me and I prayed in front of all of them. Then my youngest daughter, son and wife prayed. My oldest daughter was crying and didn't want to pray. Her husband had left the room because he didn't want to be a part of it. My daughter said that she only wanted to pray that prayer if her husband did, together. I told her that one of them was going to have to step up and wear the pants of the family otherwise they would never follow God. So after she stopped crying a little she said the prayer too. I'm still disappointed her husband didn't say it too. I think my mom and her husband were there too and I had them pray too. They were/are already christians though I guess I didn't want anyone in my house to be left out.

The effects of that prayer and how God has drawn us to Him have been amazing. It hasn't been all peaches and cream but I have seen God's hand in my life and my families life all throughout. My oldest daughter has put her son into a christian pre-school. My youngest daughter is starting her freshman year at bible college. My wife and I go to church almost every sunday. My son pretty much only cares about his video games and his phone and job but I and much of the rest of my family is praying for him, so I know he will come around.

The man of the house has quite the effect on the family, I found out. I didn't really know how or where to lead my family before. I just tried to take care of them and make them good people. Now its easy. We all just follow the Lord. Well most of us. The rest will come around...

by MUSKOKAMAN Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:49 am

Wow gramps that sounds like a mirror image of my life WIERD.

My kids think I am nuts and my wife is an unbeliever actually I am spending most of my time in a 30 foot travel trailer set up across my yard because I can't find peace in my own house.

The house we live in is where my wife was born and raised and it has always been this (It's my house) routine for longer than I care to remember. My children think I have lost my mind and I am trying to be patient because I understand where their coming from. My wife is a non-believer as was I for many years 30 or more I figure but thanks to some divine intervention I have found my way back to God (well I'm getting closer anyway) and I guess I will just have to be patient.

Here's another problem I am self employed and work has been very scarce for me for the last year or more. Getting another job working for someone else just isn't my bag man tried it for 20 years and was miserable and now I am at the perverbial end of the rope. With 1 vehicle left that is my business truck I am selling everything I have but can't get the money for it I need. Credit card debt though small is starting to pile up and my line of credit at the bank is maxed. The ice I'm on is thin indeed and I don't know how much longer it will be before things get much worse. Had to borrow 800 of my oldest boy just to make the last payment on the truck. and in 2 weeks another 1000 is due. I am ever so glad to be back with God again but I need some sort of assurance of the future. I left it all in his lap hoping and praying something will change soon. Several months ago I had a vision (I guess thats what you'd call it) That I was to take my family away from here to a place far away. Here's where it gets weird while I was praying about where to take us all I spun the globe on google earth and stopped it when I zoomed in from space the place I stopped was called the Prophet river in British Columbia Canada almost exactly 3000 miles from where I now reside. Needless to say I got goosebumps. I did this spinning of the globe thing from space 3 times on 3 seperate occasions and everytime I landed on exactly the same spot. I took it as a sign. Ever since then it is all I think about and I think there's more to it than just dumb luck anyway thanks for your support gramps and take care maybe we will meet in person 1 day.

God bless

by **strangelove** Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:58 am

See what they think when you tell 'em your convinced the Earth is stationary Musky! LOLZ!

Then your really in for it.

by MUSKOKAMAN Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:00 pm

Yah no doubt in my mind. LOL

by **strangelove** Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:26 am

You mentioned before about your business.

I can relate to that.

When I came to Christ about 3 years ago, my business that had been doing really well for about 6 years prior, suddenly started declining.

There could have been many factors involved, but somehow I think Jesus just wants me to have ENOUGH to get by.

Whenever I start to think, maybe its time to jack it in and get a real job, the money comes in. It's weird.

A knock on effect of not being so busy with work all the time is that I have most of the day and night to fellowship with Christians.

God works His providence to our ultimate good and for His Glory I guess?

by zone Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:59 pm

Grandpa wrote:
It sounds like we have almost the same past/old life. I didn't marry my wife until the year my last child was born. He is 15 now and can hardly be separated from his phone and video games. The music he listens to and the tv shows he and my wife watch, I just don't care for.

Easter of 2010 I sat my whole family down after church and I got this prayer from this little pamphlet. It was called a prayer of salvation. I told my family I wanted all of them to pray this prayer out loud individually starting with my daughter. She kind of just looked at me like wondering if I was joking. (I have quite the strange sense of humor sometimes) So I took the pamphlet back and said I would start with me and I prayed in front of all of them. Then my youngest daughter, son and wife prayed. My oldest daughter was crying and didn't want to pray. Her husband had left the room because he didn't want to be a part of it. My daughter said that she only wanted to pray that prayer if her husband did, together. I told her that one of them was going to have to step up and wear the pants of the family otherwise they would never follow God. So after she stopped crying a little she said the prayer too. I'm still disappointed her husband didn't say it too. I think my mom and her husband were there too and I had them pray too. They were/are already christians though I guess I didn't want anyone in my house to be left out.

The effects of that prayer and how God has drawn us to Him have been amazing. It hasn't been all peaches and cream but I have seen God's hand in my life and my families life all throughout. My oldest daughter has put her son into a christian pre-school. My youngest daughter is starting her freshman year at bible college. My wife and I go to church almost every sunday. My son pretty much only cares about his video games and his phone and job but I and much of the rest of my family is praying for him, so I know he will come around.

The man of the house has quite the effect on the family, I found out. I didn't really know how or where to lead my family before. I just tried to take care of them and make them good people. Now its easy. We all just follow the Lord. Well most of us. The rest will come around...

hi grandpa.

an awesome testimony. in a nutshell, the devil has been working hard to break up families and have us defy God's institutions (marriage). the long and the short of it is women have been lied to (like eve)....women's lib was a disaster for the family.

men were left emasculated, twiddling their thumbs, with no direction. men generally are satisfied to face the world (working/fighting) FOR THEIR WOMEN AND CHILDREN. he brings home the money or goods, she makes a home. its simple and clean and beautiful, but look what Madison ave and hollywood and satan HAVE DONE.

men and women no longer know who does what. when the Lord enters in, we're carried, led, by the scruff of the neck in a way, to set that right. it is VERY uncomfortable, because it is confusing. but as you discovered, IT IS A HUGE RELIEF for everyone because God created us to live in that order. you stepping up and making your family feel SAFE (though they may not recognize it as that....it might seem harsh or whatever for your son) is what they all needed: MY DAD IS MAKING SURE WE ARE OKAY!

it means the women can settle into their roles without having to worry about huge things (the future) ans she can take care of details, her role: this is what God told eve: BECAUSE YOU HAVE DONE THIS THING (AND SEVERED YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH ME - GOD - AS YOUR PROVIDER, YOUR DESIRE (FOR SECURITY AND NEEDS MET) WILL NOW BE TOWARD YOUR HUSBAND....AND HE WILL WORK BY THE SWEAT OF HIS BROW AND BARELY BE ABLE TO PROVIDE.

this is our lot, for the most part, when we do not do things His way. women become bitter because they are now working and doing the home, and the men are not fulfilling their roles....according to the world's ideals....this leads to endless strife and division, divorce.

and the govts are at the ready to set up women on welfare, thereby gaining control of them AND THE CHILDREN - WHICH IS THE GOAL OF MARXISM.

when we get saved and get the new heart and new desires, HE MOVES MOUNTAINS and changes hearts. He wants the whole family saved Grandpa...of course He does. and if HE WANTS YOU AND THEY SAVED, THEY WILL BE, LIKE IT OR NOT! lol.

consistency with you leading at prayer and church, and partaking of communion together at home as well as church....WITHOUT BECOMING A LEGALISTIC TYRANT (another satanic tactic to turn kids away from God) is what will bring everyone inot order that God is pleased with.

love you gramps.

by zone Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:11 pm

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:Wow gramps that sounds like a mirror image of my life WIERD.

My kids think I am nuts and my wife is an unbeliever actually I am spending most of my time in a 30 foot travel trailer set up across my yard because I can't find peace in my own house.

The house we live in is where my wife was born and raised and it has always been this (It's my house) routine for longer than I care to remember. My children think I have lost my mind and I am trying to be patient because I understand where their coming from. My wife is a non-believer as was I for many years 30 or more I figure but thanks to some divine intervention I have found my way back to God (well I'm getting closer anyway) and I guess I will just have to be patient.

Here's another problem I am self employed and work has been very scarce for me for the last year or more. Getting another job working for someone else just isn't my bag man tried it for 20 years and was miserable and now I am at the perverbial end of the rope. With 1 vehicle left that is my business truck I am selling everything I have but can't get the money for it I need. Credit card debt though small is starting to pile up and my line of credit at the bank is maxed. The ice I'm on is thin indeed and I don't know how much longer it will be before things get much worse. Had to borrow 800 of my oldest boy just to make the last payment on the truck. and in 2 weeks another 1000 is due. I am ever so glad to be back with God again but I need some sort of assurance of the future. I left it all in his lap hoping and praying something will change soon. Several months ago I had a vision (I guess thats what you'd call it) That I was to take my family away from here to a place far away. Here's where it gets weird while I was praying about where to take us all I spun the globe on google earth and stopped it when I zoomed in from space the place I stopped was called the Prophet river in British Columbia Canada almost exactly 3000 miles from where I now reside. Needless to say I got goosebumps. I did this spinning of the globe thing from space 3 times on 3 seperate occasions and everytime I landed on exactly the same spot. I took it as a sign. Ever since then it is all I think about and I think there's more to it than just dumb luck anyway thanks for your support gramps and take care maybe we will meet in person 1 day.

God bless

musky my heart goes out to you. i hear it.

see my previous post to gramps about your wife. women have been taught to dis their husbands. to turn against them, to become bitter and controlling. this in effect neutralizes the male (TPTB's goal/Marxism), since he no longer has any clear reason to FIGHT.

the woman is NOT HAPPY IN THIS ROLE PROVIDED BY THE BAD GUYS...she's stuck in it. it takes a time of very uncomfortable change before this conditioning can be broken. THIS IS VERY PREDICTABLE, AND THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED FOR IT - DIVIDE AND CONQUER. one of the planks of communism as expressed by Alinski is RUB RAW THE SORES OF DISCONTENT. they do this through media and culture creation.

the details of your life currently, together with your vision of moving MAKE SENSE. of course i can never advise on something like that, but my hunch is that it is something to consider. sometimes when one in the family gets saved and the others don't, a time of separation is needed too (not saying that in your case, but it was needed in mine). moving and starting over sometimes is a good door to changing the order of things in the family as well....believe me, when the man takes the lead position (without becoming an idiot tyrant), EVERYONE IS RELIEVED.

the woman will regain her femininity, which she is very often BITTER at having given up thanks to the Marxist mind controllers. its confusion for everyone. the kids dont know who is their role model - girls = mom, boys = dad. when boys hear mom trashing dad, they get really damaged. when girls hear it, they become like mom and the cycle goes on. it was planned this way by the bad guys.

beat them at their own game and please God. TAKE CONTROL, no matter how uncomfortable it is. refuse to fight to argue, just make your YES YES AND YOUR NO NO. make the big decisions, and stick by them. by consult your wife on everything and let her take care of details...if she wants this or that to make a home, help her have it. if she is trying to make things in home and family better, do everything in your power to provide her with the means, then leave her to do it. its her job and she knows how. IT MIGHT MEAN YOU HAVE TO TAKE 4 JOBS AND DIG DITCHES: this is the way it is. its ALL about the family, and whatever it takes to make it a living organism who puts God first. if we can do that, HE WILL MAKE IT ALL GOOD. HE PROMISED.

new things...day trips, camping, tv off and playing Monopoly, let the kids make supper once a week regardless of the mess....these things are all anyone really wants deep down..peace and love in their family. IT HAS TO HAPPEN, nothing else matters. with the little changes, the opportunities to talk about The Lord are everywhere....lawn chairs out under the stars...maybe daughter wont come at first, but her chair is till there every wed. night. it takes time.

if mom is opposing the things of family, the tough part is making that stand as head of the home: WITHOUT FIGHTING. there can be NO FIGHTING. just PROMISE HER that you will make it all okay. thats what women need to hear: I WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU NO MATTER WHAT...TIL I DIE. when she begins to trust that, she will then step into her role, and the details of life will be her job, and the presuure is off the man, and he can do what he is meant to do: face the world and PROVIDE and bring it home. make the ultimate big decisions (no, daughter, you may NOT do that...end of story). when mom learns that she can now be the gentle one who says, you have to ask Dad...whatever he says goes, everyone will understand. it may not seem like it now, and there will be huge opposition for a long time, BUT THE WOMAN WILL BE RELIEVED. this is what she is looking for: DAD TO BE THE ANSWER MAN RE: KIDS ETC. what Dad says goes (as long as Dad is sensible and loving. and idiot is just an idiot and nobody will listen).

women get messed up when they have to be man and woman, disciplining kids, working and doing home. and the target for that resentment will be dad. TURN IT AROUND. if the woman has reached the point of what seems like no return (a screeching basket case), sometimes taking her by the shoulders, looking into her eyes and surprising her by telling her "I ADORE YOU. YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL. I WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU. but you will NEVER SPEAK TO ME THAT WAY AGAIN...understand?" it works...most of the time......this is MIND CONTROL and social engineering. we can beat it.

court her again. take the presuure off by focusing totally on her whenever you can. its not her EGO that needs help, its her FEAR of abandonment and of the future. women are not supposed to worry about what happens outside home, etc.

consistency is EVERYTHING and they will fight it tooth and nail for a long time because they are confused. but change will come, and i promise they will ALL BE HAPPIER and you will have peace in your home.

PLEASE DON'T RUN OFF AND DO WHAT I SAID, I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT TO DO, JUST SAYING WHAT I KNOW ABOUT LIFE.

LOVE ZONE.

by Grandpa Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:54 pm

Thanks zone. You are pretty amazing.

Love you too,

Grandpa

by MUSKOKAMAN Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:13 am

Thanks zone for your support thing is we have been down the old Let me Run my business thing road and bottom line she isn't giving up hers for me. Use to be partners in a towing business back in the late eighties and early 90's after 3 years without a day off I was on call 24-7 My partner made a couple of unsrupulous moves and the Business I helped build was usurped out from underneath me. (My first lesson in business at 23 years of age) same time this all goes down my wife becomes pregnant with our first child. So back to square 1 and start over couple more years in the towing racket and I had seen enough anyway working for other people never was my bag. A year or two of landscaping and then 7- 10 as a Carpenter/Handyman and Thats when I started my own Handyman Service. That boomed for 7 years then faded off in the last 2 to a bitter joke.

My wife is too independent to ever consider allowing me to be the sole bread winner citing things like "yeah we will be destitute and homeless in a year I don't think so" with the exception of the last two years I was pulling in a quarter of a million a year gross and all she would say is "your driving us into a higher tax bracket..your killing me" so with a mindset like that waddya gonna do Damned if you do and damned if ya don't. My wife runs a fairly successful answering service but she works 7 days a week at it because if you have staff for every shift there's nothing left for you at the end of the day. ( not what I would call a high profit margin business either because of competition from bell and rogers and every other phone system out there. When she started she was one of many in Ontario but now she is the last one left except a company in peterborough that does it because everyone has call answer and forwarding these days! Any ways I have whined enough time for beddy bye good night friends talk to you later

by **strangelove** Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:29 pm

My wife is also very headstrong.

She's slowly learning to trust me as everything seems to work out when she leaves me to it, and things start to go wrong when she makes moves in the financial areas of our life.

She tried a business and, it didnt fail per se but it was way too much work for her and she ended up selling it.

When I work alone with her helping me out with the biz I run then things seem to go very smoothly.

Sometimes I mention that Jesus is looking after us.

It brings a wry smile to her face.

by MUSKOKAMAN Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:53 am

I have tried to convince my wife of that as of late but she is as you say very headstrong all I can do is hope and pray.

by zone Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:22 pm

Strangelove wrote:My wife is also very headstrong.

She's slowly learning to trust me as everything seems to work out when she leaves me to it, and things start to go wrong when she makes moves in the financial areas of our life.

She tried a business and, it didnt fail per se but it was way too much work for her and she ended up selling it.

When I work alone with her helping me out with the biz I run then things seem to go very smoothly.

Sometimes I mention that Jesus is looking after us.

It brings a wry smile to her face.

by zone Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:28 pm

MUSKOKAMAN wrote:I have tried to convince my wife of that as of late but she is as you say very headstrong all I can do is hope and pray.

consistency and time with those hopes and prayers.

He is faithful.

by MUSKOKAMAN Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:23 pm

zone wrote:

consistency and time with those hopes and prayers.

He is faithful.

Thanks Zone I love you and Doc. very much

thanks for all the effort you guys put in to trying to help a few lost souls

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