No More Prophets

No More Prophets

Ephesians · 82 of 145

8/11/2002 (SUN) | Bible: Ephesians 4:11

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=81102151228

this is a nearly flawless sermon (in my oh-so-humble opinion ).

AND FROM A BAPTIST! lol....but, therein lies the flaw right at the end of the sermon.

i say nearly flawless sermon because ju-u-u-st at the end as he's wrapping it up in a passing remark on the tribulation he says the "church is going to be gone" . luckily he doesn't go into that.

what would have been a galactic 5 star sermon is a 5...LOL.

total smack-down on modern prophets, and just stunningly clear exposition of the subject of the offices. edifying TO THE MAX.

those early Apostolic Era gifts as marvellous as they must have been were not the FULL BLESSING we have today.

if you listen let me know what you think.

(listened to a twin series earlier on cessationism, and though he does quite well in those, it was this third sermon that rang the bell.)

Cessationism Demonstrated & Defended - Part 1
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=7150201117

Cessationism Demonstrated And Defended - Part 2
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=7250223327

I have to dissagree, having had a prophetic vison from God myself. I must dissgree. If you dont have, thats becasue you dont ask.

The following is from, Chapter 2 of "The Vision by David Wilkerson-published in 1974" Drastic Weather Change and Earthquakes

Earthquakes coming to United States
The United States is going to experience in the not-too-distant future the most tragic earthquakes in its history. One day soon this nation will be reeling under the impact of the biggest news story of modern times. It will be coverage of the biggest most disastrous earthquake in history.
It will cause widespread panic and fear, Without a doubt, it will become one of the most completely reported earthquake ever. Television networks will suspend all programming and carry all day coverage.
Another earthquake , possibly in Japan may precede the one that I see coming here. There is not the slightest doubt in my mind about this forthcoming massive earthquake in our continent.
I am not at all convinced that this earthquake will take place in California. In fact, I believe it is going to take place where it is least expected. This terrible earthquake may happen in an area that not known as an earthquake belt. It will be so high on the Richter scale that it will trigger two other major earthquakes."


This is the same David Wilkerson who is best known for his 1963 book “The Cross and the Switchblade”. He later founded Times Square Church in New York City.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wilkerson


I do beleive David wilkerson is a man Guided and lead by Jesus Christ, adn the Holy spirit. I have read his book "Hungry for More of Jesus"(which i recomend anyone and everyone to read) Which has truly helped me allot. And have read exceprts and chapters from others. This man IS working for the Lord. Dont buy into the Cessationism. Anyone. God has not changed. theres nothign in scripture to prove anythign ended. Just becasue ther are allot of evil sorcerors running around, doesnt mean Gods spirit stoped manifesting in and through his children.

There were ALWAYS allot of evil sorcerors running around claiming to have the great power, or even BE that power. Since the begining of the Church. Prophesy is still active, Healings are still active. Tounges are as well. (as much as peopel hate to hear that...does everyone get them? no. Proof of salvation? No. )

KingdomSeeker wrote:I have to dissagree, having had a prophetic vison from God myself. I must dissgree. If you dont have, thats becasue you dont ask.

The following is from, Chapter 2 of "The Vision by David Wilkerson-published in 1974" Drastic Weather Change and Earthquakes

Earthquakes coming to United States
The United States is going to experience in the not-too-distant future the most tragic earthquakes in its history. One day soon this nation will be reeling under the impact of the biggest news story of modern times. It will be coverage of the biggest most disastrous earthquake in history.
It will cause widespread panic and fear, Without a doubt, it will become one of the most completely reported earthquake ever. Television networks will suspend all programming and carry all day coverage.
Another earthquake , possibly in Japan may precede the one that I see coming here. There is not the slightest doubt in my mind about this forthcoming massive earthquake in our continent.
I am not at all convinced that this earthquake will take place in California. In fact, I believe it is going to take place where it is least expected. This terrible earthquake may happen in an area that not known as an earthquake belt. It will be so high on the Richter scale that it will trigger two other major earthquakes."


This is the same David Wilkerson who is best known for his 1963 book “The Cross and the Switchblade”. He later founded Times Square Church in New York City.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wilkerson


I do beleive David wilkerson is a man Guided and lead by Jesus Christ, adn the Holy spirit. I have read his book "Hungry for More of Jesus"(which i recomend anyone and everyone to read) Which has truly helped me allot. And have read exceprts and chapters from others. This man IS working for the Lord. Dont buy into the Cessationism. Anyone. God has not changed. theres nothign in scripture to prove anythign ended. Just becasue ther are allot of evil sorcerors running around, doesnt mean Gods spirit stoped manifesting in and through his children.

Hi Rob.
Wilkerson. You mean this guy?

• During the message delivered on October 11, 2001, one month after the events of 9/11, and with a nation bearing a glimmer of repentance, Pastor David Wilkerson continued his vision: ―Right now, I believe God is speaking a warning to New York City and I wrestled with His severe word as I prepared this message and I prayed, Lord, is this really going to happen? Again and again I heard this still small voice, "Preach it and warn the people.
  
• Those who want the truth will receive it." Saint: This warning is not meant to scare you. It's meant only for you to take to the Lord and pray. This is what I believe the Lord has shown me. Thirty days of chastisement will fall on New York City such as the world has never seen. God's going to let down the walls. Unimaginable violence, looting, a thousand fires will be burning at the same time throughout the city and it's burroughs.
  
• Times Square will be ablaze and the flames that ascend into the heaven will be seen for miles. Fire trucks will not be able to handle it all. Trains and buses will be shut down. Billions of dollars will be lost. Broadway shows will stop completely. It will cause businesses to flee the city in an unstoppable hemorrhage. The violence will be ferocious. It will shock the whole world. Our streets will be lined not just with National Guard but the militia. The Los Angeles fires were confined to a few sections of their city but New York will be ablaze and its burroughs.
  
• Such things are expected in Third World countries but not in a civilized nation like the United States. Yet in not too long a time afterward New York City will go bankrupt. The city's Queen city will be cast into the dirt. A city of poverty. You ask, when will all this happen? All I can say is I believe I will be here when it happens. When it happens, no matter where we are, in your apartment or on the job, God's people are not to panic or fear."
  
• On March 7, 2009, Pastor David Wilkerson once more put forth an urgent message: one of warning, preparation: I am compelled by the Holy Spirit to send out an urgent message to all on our mailing list, and to friends and to bishops we have met all over the world. AN EARTH-SHATTERING CALAMITY IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN. IT IS GOING TO BE SO FRIGHTENING, WE ARE ALL GOING TO TREMBLE - EVEN THE GODLIEST AMONG US. For ten years I have been warning about a thousand fires coming to New York City. It will engulf the whole megaplex, including areas of New Jersey and Connecticut. Major cities all across America will experience riots and blazing fires—such as we saw in Watts, Los Angeles, years ago.
  

~

there's enough stuff on this site for me to make prophetic utterances also: I can predict iran will be targeted before the end of the year. Prior to that Lebanon.
Israel is preparing for another CastLead op there.

I can predict soaring inflation, food riots, hunger and pestilence.

I can predict earthquakes around the globe (diverse places).

I could have started a prophecy blog before the The Middle East "revolutions" and named the events IN ORDER.

~

The test for a prophet is 100% accuracy all the time.
One miss in the OT meant DEATH.

These guys do so much of it, so much of it can come to pass and the Church overlooks the stuff that doesn't.

~

I had a few dreams myself.

Does that make me a prophet?

KingdomSeeker wrote:There were ALWAYS allot of evil sorcerors running around claiming to have the great power, or even BE that power. Since the begining of the Church. Prophesy is still active, Healings are still active. Tounges are as well. (as much as peopel hate to hear that...does everyone get them? no. Proof of salvation? No. )

Rob did you listen to that sermon with an open mind or just dismiss it when you saw the title?

"tongues" (gibbering) has been thoroughly debunked.
It's never meant what charismatics say it means. EVER.

God is NOT revealing new things - prophecy ceased with the Apostolic era PROPHETS.

The prophets were given as temporary gifts to the churches after Pentecost to
1) assist the Apostles (to whom they were subject)
2) to provide new revelation for the New Testament (NEW REVELATION and prophecies were given until the last prophet and Apostle JOHN placed the last JOT on his book: The Revelation of Jesus Christ. and to provide insights or revealed events about to occur as God nourishedand protected his fledgling church.
3) i.e.: paul (as john) is named as both apostle and prophet - NEW things were revealed to him (the Mystery of the gentiles being joint-heirs/the mystery of the gathering and change ("rapture") at the Second Advent etc.... - those things are now known to us. Paul and the apostles has absolute authority given directly by Jesus Christ - are there any men today receiving personal visits from Jesus and being ordained as Apostles? NO. men are bestowing that mantle on each other, but they're all liars and crooks.

and yet, you have dispensationalists saying the church is a mystery because she was a gentile PLAN B hastily concocted when the jews rejected Christ. they hven't even read the letter to the ephesians which says the mystery was ordained from the foundation of the world, yet only revealed to paul - THE GENTILES ALWAYS TO BE JOINT HEIRS.

the very fact that those "mysteries" which haven't been mysteries for 2000 years are still not understood means only that the prophecies given way back then of false teachers and false prophets CAME TO PASS also.

anyways....we who have The Holy Spirit and the full Revelation of God of The Word have more than the early church had: they knew "in part" and prophesied "in part". We now have the WHOLE PICTURE. paul said they back then saw through a glass/mirror dimly....but that later (after the fullness of God's Revelation of Himself had been sealed in canon IN FULL) we would see "face to face" - meaning CLEARLY. we would "see" ourselves and who we are in Christ, and "see" and KNOW Him (as revealed) JUST AS WE ARE KNOWN (by Him).

having the full canon of God's Precious word means FAR MORE than just having it handily in one book. It is the sum of all that had gone before, all the way from Job (or whichever is the oldest book).

Ephesians 2:20:
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

you lay a foundation ONCE.
Jesus Christ was set as the cornerstone ONCE.

Pentecost happened ONCE.

The apostles and prophets of the Apostolic era built the foundation once.
They have ceased. There are no Apostles today.

Jude 1
3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

THE faith (there is a definite article attached to this use of FAITH meaning it is not just faith is it the FULL body of required inspired Scripture, all we need to have a saving and lasting faith and for living a christian life).

ONCE (one time: like the foundation)
FOR ALL: all who have the Word and Spirit have the benefit of the sum total of all the gifts of the apostolic era given to them IN ONE PLACE. We understand (with study) the apostle's writings, the prophecies spelled out in the Word, the structure of Church gov't, the guide for Christian living, the comforts and instruction the early church had only received IN PART.

DELIVERED: this word means more than just delivered, it means given to be received in full, fully completed (the meaning is the same as Jesus' Word's on the cross: IT IS FINISHED)

when that which is PERFECT is come: perfect there means the same thing it does when used in "just men made perfect" growing up into a "perfect man": not PERFECTION (as in Jesus Christ in Person or us in glorified bodies) but fullness/matured or finished/complete.

when Paul penned Corinthians he hadn't even penned his letters on church gov't etc!

We don't need Apostles to make the curcuit between our churches because everything they said for our istruction is available to every one of us! (though i wish sometimes old paul or john or the others were still around)

God can work miracles anytime He wants to. The miracles and signs that occured in the Apostolic era were for very specific reasons - the same as Jesus' healings and miracles.

God heals people today of course! IN ANSWER TO PRAYER, or as a Sovergein act for his own purpose (bringing that person to Calvary or whatever): but the people who suggest they have a "gift' of healing, that somehow it is their hands on someone which heals is stupid and blasphemy.

Revelation 11
³ And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
⁴ These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. ⁵
And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and
devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be
killed in this manner. ⁶
These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of
their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood,
and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.
⁷
When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the
bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.
⁸ And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Adstar wrote:Revelation 11
³ And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
⁴ These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. ⁵
And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and
devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be
killed in this manner. ⁶
These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of
their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood,
and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.
⁷
When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the
bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.
⁸ And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Hi Adstar.
this would clearly be another round of miraculous powers granted to men of God, this time, again for the jews - the signs are always for THEM.

The position I take is concerning the controversial twentieth century Pentecostal activity commonly called the "gifts" discussed at the corinthian church.

KingdomSeeker wrote:I have to dissagree, having had a prophetic vison from God myself. I must dissgree. If you dont have, thats becasue you dont ask.

How do you know it was from God?

KingdomSeeker wrote:There were ALWAYS allot of evil sorcerors running around claiming to have the great power, or even BE that power. Since the begining of the Church. Prophesy is still active,

Yes there are still many prophets FORTHtelling God's written Word.

KingdomSeeker wrote:Healings are still active.

Absolutely. Gos will always heal who He will according to His will.

KingdomSeeker wrote:Tounges are as well.

What ...you mean..like in Acts? I'd love to see a group of people or even an individual witnessing the Gospel to foreigners in an unlearned language. Can you document this?

Strangelove wrote:
Yes there are still many prophets FORTHtelling God's written Word.

Then that isnt a Prophet. A prophet hears and then immidiately speaks. Somthing Written is not something heard. If God told you to go out, adn tell others that an eathquake was comming to the very place you were standing. Would you Rebuke it? Would you run adn yell at God adn Tell him that He is Wrong, and Evil? Or would you do exactly what GOd says. God wont say "I am GOD" he will give you a dream, (maybe a vision...though...what qualifies as a vision is iffy) Or a Word, in your spirit(NOT audibly) Most of the Time God will tell you multiple times.(not always) IF you dont do it, you are doing a grevious Sin, that, well if you dont beleive in prophesies, then you cant repent For.

1 Thessalonians 5: 16-20
"Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies"

Strangelove wrote:Absolutely. Gos will always heal who He will according to His will.

Amen!! And to pray over a person so they are Well, is a healing Yes? We shouldnt do anythign out side of God telling us through the movement of The Holy spirit IN us. If we do, then that is a type of sorcery, adn NOT God. But if we truly ARE praying without ceasing, we are thusly abiding IN Jesus, and IN the Holyspirit, God is sti ldirecting, and speaking

Strangelove wrote:
What ...you mean..like in Acts? I'd love to see a group of people or even an individual witnessing the Gospel to foreigners in an unlearned language. Can you document this?

Read 1 Corinthians 14, prayerfully, and a Few times. Here is an EXELLENT comentery on the chapter. http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/4614.htm

KingdomSeeker wrote:Then that isnt a Prophet.

Rob, the word 'prophet' in New Testament scripture does not exclusively mean FOREtelling the future. It can also mean one who has a gift of preaching the gospel/explaining the scriptures. FORTHtelling. Look:

G4396
προφήτης
prophētēs
prof-ay'-tace
From a compound of G4253 and G5346; a foreteller ("prophet"); by analogy an inspired speaker; by extension a poet: - prophet.(Matthew 15:27) And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

(1 Corinthians 14:37) If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Gill:

1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet,.... Or "seems to be a prophet", and is really one; for the apostle does not so much design to strike at the pride, vanity, and appearances of false prophets, as to observe, that those that are really prophets, have the gift of prophesy, either of foretelling future events, or a peculiar gift of preaching the Gospel, and explaining the Scriptures, will allow what he had said to be right:

Clarke:

1Co 14:37
If any man think himself to be a prophet, etc. - He who is really a spiritual man, under the influence of the Spirit of God, and capable of teaching the Divine will, he will acknowledge that what I now say is from the same Spirit; and that the things which I now write are the commandments of God, and must be obeyed on pain of his displeasure.

In short, if you profess Jesus, the Gospel etc....you are a prophet.

KingdomSeeker wrote:A prophet hears and then immidiately speaks. Somthing Written is not something heard. If God told you to go out, adn tell others that an eathquake was comming to the very place you were standing. Would you Rebuke it? Would you run adn yell at God adn Tell him that He is Wrong, and Evil? Or would you do exactly what GOd says. God wont say "I am GOD" he will give you a dream, (maybe a vision...though...what qualifies as a vision is iffy) Or a Word, in your spirit(NOT audibly) Most of the Time God will tell you multiple times.(not always) IF you dont do it, you are doing a grevious Sin, that, well if you dont beleive in prophesies, then you cant repent For.

God talks to me through His Word. It is all we need to be 'perfect'.

(2 Timothy 3:16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(2 Timothy 3:17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If you claim God talks to you directly in some kinda mystical 'not audibly' but through the spirit (??) kinda way then I guess you should open up a prophecies thread and start writing it all down. It's very important that you share with the Body like real prophets always have.

KingdomSeeker wrote:Amen!! And to pray over a person so they are Well, is a healing Yes? We shouldnt do anythign out side of God telling us through the movement of The Holy spirit IN us. If we do, then that is a type of sorcery, adn NOT God. But if we truly ARE praying without ceasing, we are thusly abiding IN Jesus, and IN the Holyspirit, God is sti ldirecting, and speaking

Theres nothing wrong with praying for someone. And if they get healed then great. But it is not a 'healing'. If you meet a healer who performs 'healings' be sure to send them round to the nearest hospital as there are children with cancer there. And call the news it should be on the front page globally. A apostle like healer should be able to heal entire towns.

KingdomSeeker wrote:Read 1 Corinthians 14, prayerfully, and a Few times. Here is an EXELLENT comentery on the chapter.

Oh goodness. Your a tongue waggler? Rob, dear friend....I've done Corinth 14 up down and sidewayz. Heres a brief outtake of my position from a different forum:

14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Paul is saying here that if he prays in Hebrew or another language...then indeed he is praying to God. It's genuine. Thats what he means by 'my spirit prayeth'. He's REALLY praying. But when he says 'my understanding is unfruitful' he means his knowledge and understanding of that language (Hebrew or others) is unfruitful TO THOSE WHO MAY BE LISTENING TO HIS PRAYER because they don't know any foreign languages.

IOW....Him praying with the understanding of an unknown tongue is unfruitful when in the company of those who don't have that understanding. He qualifies this meaning in V16 where he says there may be people listening who dont understand. They cannot learn from him when he's talking Hebrew. It's unfruitful.

The verse doesn't mean...Tongues (gibberish) is for praying.

14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

So here he underlines that when he prays, he will do it in a fashion where there will be understanding. IOW...in a language where those around him will understand him. In THEIR language. whether he's praying or singing.

The verse doesnt mean...Tongues (gibberish) is for singing.

14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

Can you see how the verses are panning out? He continues the rebuke. Now he says if you are going to give blessings do that in a language understood by all too, otherwise they will not be able to say Amen with full understanding.

The verse doesnt mean...Tongues (gibberish) is for blessings.

14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

...becasue if you do it in a foreign language YOU will give thanks but it doesnt profit anyone else! It's a rebuke.

The verse doesnt mean...Tongues (gibberish) is for giving thanks.

14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

He's grateful God has blessed him with the ability to speak many languages that others are not learned of BUT.....:

14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

...he would rather say next to NOTHING in a language that carries understanding than a massive speach in Hebrew or another of the many languages that he speaks that the brethren in Corinth don't.

Rob, I will go through 1 Corinthians verse by verse if you want. Theres no gibberish in there...angelic language, speaking in mysteries whateva you wanna call it....its not gibberish.

Prophets & Prophecy
Chapter 15
Definitions
The verb "prophesy" means "to speak before" (from Greek pro, before, and phemi, to speak). The gift includes both the idea of foretelling and forthtelling, predicting the future and preaching. A prophet was God's mouthpiece: he spoke for God and gave His message. Sometimes that message was regarding the future. Other times it concerned the present, even the past, or simply doctrinal truth, but it was always God's message spoken forth.

The Issue
Some controversy arises at this point. Today's renewed interest and investigation of the spiritual gifts has seen many non-charismatics redefine the gift of prophecy. The Charismatics, of course, readily admit the revelatory nature of this gift and claim its operation today. Some modern non-charismatics have defined the gift in another way, resulting in an interpretation which allows the gift of prophecy today but not in its revelatory sense. They say that the gift of prophecy means only the ability to speak forth for God, to preach; it is not necessarily, they say, a revelatory gift, but the ability to preach the truth of God's Word with great power and insight.

The issue can be stated in the form of two questions:
1) Is it Scripturally allowable to limit the gift to only forthtelling (as opposed to predictive prophecy)? and,
2) Is there in that forthtelling nothing revelatory? That is, is it merely the ability to expound previously revealed truth?

So the question to clarify at the outset is one of definitions. The answer to this question will determine the course of the remainder of the study.

Evidence
First of all, it must be recognized that one who prophesies is a prophet. This would seem obvious enough, but there are those who seek to support this idea of non-revelatory prophecy by making sharp distinction between these two -- a prophet being the one with the revelatory gifts and the one who prophesies being merely the preacher of previously revealed truth. This distinction is both gratuitous and impossible to demonstrate exegetically. One who teaches is a teacher. One who preaches is a preacher. And one who prophesies is a prophet. There is simply no evidence of any distinction between a prophet and one with the gift of prophecy.

Old Testament
There is no question or debate at all, among Bible believers, that the Old Testament prophets received direct revelation and were able to foretell the future. Their function, in part, was to reveal what God would do in the days or years that lay ahead. Their prophecies also dealt with matters of present concern -- what God willed for His people at that time. Their prophecies further concerned matters of doctrine: God revealed truth to them so that they, in turn, would "prophesy" it to the people. There were also times when God would give revelation concerning the past, telling them about some event otherwise unknowable to them; Nathan's confrontation with David over his sin with Bathsheba well illustrates this fact (II Samuel 12:1-12). The fact is clear: the Old Testament prophets both foretold the future and forthtold God-given truth, but both aspects unquestionably involved direct revelation. Their prophecy, whatever it concerned, was clearly revelatory.

New Testament
Neither is there any indication of change in the character of New Testament prophecy, but rather its revelatory nature is clearly assumed. For example, when at His hearing before Caiaphas Jesus was spit upon and smote in the face while blindfolded, He was mockingly exhorted to "prophesy who it is that smote thee" (Luke 22:64). This prophecy would clearly involve direct revelation. When Jesus could tell the hidden past of the woman at the well, He was immediately recognized as a prophet (John 4:19). Agabas exercised the gift of prophecy in a predictive way: he foretold a coming famine and also Paul's coming sufferings (Acts 11:27-28, Acts 21:10-11). I Timothy 4:14 informs us of the same regarding Paul's gift of prophecy: God told him that Timothy was to receive his gift by the laying on of hands; it was direct revelation. Ephesians 2:20 and 3:5 clearly associate the New Testament Prophets with receiving revelation directly from God, and that revelation is not necessarily regarding the future but rather doctrine.

I Corinthians 12-14
Furthermore, it must be recognized that the only passage in the New Testament which treats the subject of prophets and prophecy in an exhaustive manner is I Corinthians 14 (in its context, beginning with I Corinthians 12). In this passage as well, the revelatory character of the gift is clearly present. In I Corinthians 12:28 prophets are ranked as more important than teachers. In I Corinthians 13:2 the gift of prophecy is explained as "understanding all mysteries and all knowledge." A "mystery," in New Testament terminology, is a secret, something unknowable apart from direct revelation. The underlying assumption is that the gift involved special revelation.

I Corinthians 14:1 states the theme of the entire chapter -- the superiority of prophecy to tongues. Verse 3 mentions prophecy but not in a definitive way; it only states the results of the proper exercise of the gift, namely, edification. In other words, verse 3 explains exactly why prophecy is superior to tongues. The following verses expand that argument: prophecy is intelligible speech, and tongues is not; hence, prophecy is superior. And in that sense prophecy is associated with other intelligible speaking gifts, such as teaching (verses 6, 9).

In the following section of chapter 14 prophecy and tongues are associated in this very respect -- that they are both revelatory in nature (verses 26-30; cf., verse 2). Finally, verses 29 and 30 clearly demand that the gift of prophecy being exercised in the church of Corinth was revelatory; it plainly states that the prophecy was something "revealed."

Summary
It is clear enough that the gift of prophecy is not to be confused with the gift of preaching or teaching. That there is overlap between prophesying and preaching is obvious, but the difference is important: A preacher must take a text of previously revealed truth and seek to expound it, and his authority extends only so far as the correctness of his interpretation of that text. But one exercising the gift of prophecy takes no such text but rather delivers a new text, as it were. He delivers truth revealed by God. His authority, then, rests in the message itself: it is the very word of God. Accordingly, prophecy is ranked above teaching (I Corinthians 12:28). The closest anyone could come, today, to prophesying is not preaching, but simply reading Scripture ver batim.

The gift of prophecy was the ability to declare truth received directly from God, truth obtained by special revelation. The prophets were mouthpieces of God, speaking His word, to their world, regarding either past, present or future truth. They were men of inspired utterance.

The Importance Of The Gift
The gift of prophecy was very important in that it met a real and unique need of the early church. They were at a loss without any of this new revelation yet recorded and available, so God gave His word "part by part" (I Corinthians 13:9) through these gifted men until that written Word was complete.

The prophets' importance also is seen in that, along with the apostles, they were the foundation of the church. Upon the truth revealed through them, Christ's church is built (Ephesians 2:20). Accordingly, they are listed second in importance in I Corinthians 12:28.

The Validation Of Prophecies
I Thessalonians 5:19-20 commands the Christian to prove, or test, all prophecies. How? The apostles were able by their miraculous gifts to vindicate their own message, but no such provision was given the prophets.

To serve as a check against men who would claim the prophetic gift falsely, others were given the gift of discerning of spirits (see chapter 16). This gifted person would stand up and pronounce judgment on a given prophecy, declaring whether it was of God or not. An example of this is given in I Corinthians 14:29 where Paul commands that after the prophets speak, "let the other judge." The message of the true prophet was absolute, but it had to be established that it was in fact from God. This was the function of the discerner of spirits.

There was still another check given to validate the prophecy: complete agreement with the apostles was mandatory. "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual," writes the apostle Paul, "let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord" (I Corinthians 14:37). This is the standard by which to "test the spirits" (I John 4:1). This test was final. If any man claimed to prophesy but was not in agreement with the apostles' teaching, that "prophecy" was not of God, no matter what else may have seemed to validate his claim. Agreement with the apostles was mandatory.

New Testament Examples
The gift is mentioned in all five New Testament lists (see chapter 2), but only a few New Testament prophets are mentioned. Agabus is one who had the gift. In Acts 11:27-28 he predicted a famine, and in Acts 21:10-11 he predicted Paul's coming sufferings, both of which came to pass as prophesied. (From this example it is clear that the gift of prophecy involved the ability to foretell as well as merely forthtell). Philip's daughters prophesied (Acts 15:32), but no details are given. Acts 13:1 mentions prophets and teachers in the Church at Antioch, although no details are given, nor does it say which men were prophets or which were teachers. Judas and Silas are designated prophets in Acts 15:32. Paul and the other apostles evidently had this gift as well (e.g., Acts 27:23-24).

Their Demise
Several factors demand that the gift of prophecy is no longer given to the church.

1) The most obvious reason that the gift is no longer given is that there is no need for it today. God has given a complete revelation which is altogether sufficient in all matters of faith and practice. The prophets met a unique need of that first century church, before this revelation was available. The church today does not need any prophets to give new revelation, only teachers and preachers to expose it to the Revelation already given.

2) No revelation is being given today (cf., chapter 13). No one today can add a verse to Scripture; no one today is receiving new truth.

3) The prophets were the foundation of the church (Ephesians 2:20), which is now complete (cf., chapter 13).

4) I Corinthians 13:8-13 specifically predicts their demise with the completed canon of Scripture. With a complete Scripture, the other prophecies are useless.

Summary
Prophecy was an important gift to the church and met a unique need in the early church, but it is no longer needed or given. Its "partial" messages (I Corinthians 13:9) have been replaced by the complete Revelation. The church today stands, then, at a great advantage without it.

http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/spiritualgifts/ch15.htm

Oh goodness. Your a tongue waggler?

No, im not. I once was praying and started speaking A language. It was not the Gibber jabber i have heard in pentocostal Churhces. it was diferent. I Actualy spoke a languge. Couldnt tell you waht that was...Couldnt tel you waht i spoke. I have told Zone this. She asked me once if i ever talked in toungues...I said yes, in my prayer closet. I wasnt sure if it was from God or not so i tried not to do it. And prayed about it some more. Well i have done it since. its not the

"IBoughtaHundaibutishouldhaveboughtaHonda"

Pentycoastl language either..it had specific diction, adn rolled off my tounge. I have no ideah WHAT i spoke. Its not all the time either. Anyway... yeah, bleive me if you wish to my friend. But Tounges are still in existance, as are prohesies. NOT just from the Scriptures. Very few have them(prohecies). But they exist. Again dont beleive it. It has NOTHING to do with all this "charasmatic" stuff either. But thats cool. It doesnt save you so if you dont want any gifts like that i dont think Gods going to force it on you.

But Tounges are still in existance, as are prohesies.

Then we all need to know about these miracles. Please document for the Body how and what God is speaking to the church that is extra-biblical. It may be important.

No More Prophets

8/11/2002 (SUN) | Bible: Ephesians 4:11

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=81102151228

total smack-down on modern prophets. 5 stars

~

i gotta bump this again.
UNCLEFESTER WILL KNOW WHY.
mind-numbing isn't it fester?



also:

Cessationism Demonstrated & Defended - Part 1
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=7150201117

Cessationism Demonstrated And Defended - Part 2
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=7250223327

zone wrote:

No More Prophets

8/11/2002 (SUN) | Bible: Ephesians 4:11

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=81102151228

total smack-down on modern prophets. 5 stars

~

i gotta bump this again.
UNCLEFESTER WILL KNOW WHY.
mind-numbing isn't it fester?



also:

Cessationism Demonstrated & Defended - Part 1
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=7150201117

Cessationism Demonstrated And Defended - Part 2
[url=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=7250223327

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=7250223327[/quote[/url]]

Can't access the link through my work puter.....otherwise I'd be listening to it right now. Tomorrow at home with my morning coffee though. Lookin' forward to it. Thanks for the bump.....

zone wrote:

No More Prophets

8/11/2002 (SUN) | Bible: Ephesians 4:11

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=81102151228

total smack-down on modern prophets. 5 stars

~

i gotta bump this again.
UNCLEFESTER WILL KNOW WHY.
mind-numbing isn't it fester?



also:

Cessationism Demonstrated & Defended - Part 1
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=7150201117

Cessationism Demonstrated And Defended - Part 2
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=7250223327

As I listened to the truth of this sermon Zone, I was reminded of the
many occasions that our opposition on that other forum were telling us
that it was our "pride" and our "carnality" that kept us from "truly"
seeing God at work through his "prophets" today. And they, in
all their "humility" were simply bringing God's latest revelation to
them and they in turn, to us......much to their chagrin because no "true prophet" really wants to bring tidings of damnation (that are contrary to God's Word, no less ). Meanwhile,the truth and majesty of God's divinely inspired
Word is downgraded to disgustingly sinful and corrupt proportion through these false prophets....because they "live" His Word while the rest of us merely read and study it (our head knowledge). If this isn't a prideful proclamation, I don't know what is. How does one live God's Word without first accepting
and understanding it in true humility ? (grace through faith). And as we already know, they speak directly to God Himself, naturally. Truly mind-boggling to
observe. Gonna listen to the other two sermons over the next couple of
days.

unclefester wrote:
As I listened to the truth of this sermon Zone, I was reminded of the
many occasions that our opposition on that other forum were telling us
that it was our "pride" and our "carnality" that kept us from "truly"
seeing God at work through his "prophets" today. And they, in
all their "humility" were simply bringing God's latest revelation to
them and they in turn, to us......much to their chagrin because no "true prophet" really wants to bring tidings of damnation (that are contrary to God's Word, no less ). Meanwhile,the truth and majesty of God's divinely inspired
Word is downgraded to disgustingly sinful and corrupt proportion through these false prophets....because they "live" His Word while the rest of us merely read and study it (our head knowledge). If this isn't a prideful proclamation, I don't know what is. How does one live God's Word without first accepting
and understanding it in true humility ? (grace through faith). And as we already know, they speak directly to God Himself, naturally. Truly mind-boggling to
observe. Gonna listen to the other two sermons over the next couple of
days.

i know Rob....
i just looked in over there.
the second i leave that certain "prophet" - you know the one is now PUSHING THAT GOD IS ANGRY WITH "AMERICA" THE BEAUTIFUL FOR ABANDONING GOD'S PEOPLE THE PHARISEES.

and you got new guys in there with hexagram avatars agreeing.

its OUTRAGEOUS.

and that other "prophet" (superman avatar) is an unashamed arminian, pushing the same dispensational trash (AND THAT WE ARE SAVED BY HOW GOOD WE ARE IN OUR COOPERATION WITH THE LORD...neat how it all fits together isnt it )

i nearly posted, but checked myself. they are on their own.

have a gander later.
what a deadly trap and the PEOPLE LOVE TO HAVE IT SO.
zone.

the young lady we were working with is learning FAST. she's been emailing me.
The Lord is leading her out of that charismatic nightmare!