Hello

Hi, I'm new here, I found this site while I was looking up information about Christianity and geocentricity. Anyway I'm an atheist/agnostic, just looking around.

Hi Oscar.
Welcome...make yourself at home.
Doc'll be around shortly.

zone

thank you for the welcome, and i look forward to engaging doc.

I must not be doing something correctly, cuz I've googled a bunch of different site subjects to get the wilderness to pull on a search page, and... nada. The wilderness has never popped up even when searching "christian wilderness".

oscarkipling wrote:thank you for the welcome, and i look forward to engaging doc.

It's too late oscar...I'm happily married.

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:I must not be doing something correctly, cuz I've googled a bunch of different site subjects to get the wilderness to pull on a search page, and... nada. The wilderness has never popped up even when searching "christian wilderness".

I recon it depends what country your in. This site maybe censored due to hateful material (sigh) in some countries. The end is nigh.

Strangelove wrote:

I recon it depends what country your in. This site maybe censored due to hateful material (sigh) in some countries. The end is nigh.

True. But I forgot the hyphen and the .forum awhile back and was frantically searching and couldn't get it to pull. But OscKip said he found it googling geocentricity. 30 pages out on a seach and I still couldn't get it to pull, even this morning.

I think some BFers tracked us back here.

If I google 'stationary earth wilderness' this forum is the first hit.

If I google 'stationary earth forum' its the fourth hit.

How about you?

Strangelove wrote:

It's too late oscar...I'm happily married.

ROTFLMHO!

Strangelove wrote:If I google 'stationary earth wilderness' this forum is the first hit.

If I google 'stationary earth forum' its the fourth hit.

How about you?

I'm using google.co.uk by the way.

Oscar...I've heard the term agnostic many times on forums...I've never known what it means. I'm not gonna look it up. You just tell me in your own words what the heck it means will ya please?

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:

True. But I forgot the hyphen and the .forum awhile back and was frantically searching and couldn't get it to pull. But OscKip said he found it googling geocentricity. 30 pages out on a seach and I still couldn't get it to pull, even this morning.

I think some BFers tracked us back here.

hi PPS - google doesn't show me the wilderness either (Kanada).
i have it fav'd or use another engine.
of course peeps track us back here.

that's how Eschalon works:|

Strangelove wrote:If I google 'stationary earth wilderness' this forum is the first hit.

If I google 'stationary earth forum' its the fourth hit.

How about you?

Okay. First hit both times. Had to know the forum name and combine it with a subject. But geocentricity pulls nothing. How would anyone else know to google subject/wilderness?

zone wrote:

hi PPS - google doesn't show me the wilderness either (Kanada).
i have it fav'd or use another engine.
of course peeps track us back here.

that's how Eschalon works:|

Exactly my point. :-)

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:Okay. First hit both times. Had to know the forum name and combine it with a subject. But geocentricity pulls nothing. How would anyone else know to google subject/wilderness?

Oh 4 shizzle...if you dont combine with the forum or summink then it would be hard to get here. Maybe oscar can tell us how he got here so quick.

Strangelove wrote:

It's too late oscar...I'm happily married.

the good ones are always taken hahah

PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:I must not be doing something correctly, cuz I've googled a bunch of different site subjects to get the wilderness to pull on a search page, and... nada. The wilderness has never popped up even when searching "christian wilderness".

I type in google "stationary earth christian" and its my 6th result, but I don't know if that's the original search terminology I used.

Strangelove wrote:Oscar...I've heard the term agnostic many times on forums...I've never known what it means. I'm not gonna look it up. You just tell me in your own words what the heck it means will ya please?

well, I generally use it to indicate that I dont claim to "know" that there is no god, this might be a more of a colloquial usage than whatever the rigidy philosophical definition might be..but that's how I use it..

Strangelove wrote:

Oh 4 shizzle...if you dont combine with the forum or summink then it would be hard to get here. Maybe oscar can tell us how he got here so quick.

haha, I suppose I could be some sort of agent using my untold resources to track this place down for nefarious reasons....or maybe when i find something interesting I obsessively Google it like a weirdo, and click through tons of pages because I have a crippling need to learn more about the subject. The agent explanation definitely makes me seem cooler and mysterious....like a nerdy James Bond.

oscarkipling wrote:

well, I generally use it to indicate that I dont claim to "know" that there is no god, this might be a more of a colloquial usage than whatever the rigidy philosophical definition might be..but that's how I use it..

okay. i reckon i'm called a believer cuz i know there's a God.


in my experience with my family who rejects Christianity, they use the term AGNOSTIC as a polite (PC) word for atheist. i think its actually a polite term for pagan. which is not a derogatory term in itself.

maybe you mean to say you're open to the idea there is a God, but you're not committed to accepting or admitting it - undecided? or are you decided.

cuz i like you oscarkipling, and i was like you in agnosticism once.

maybe i can fumble through explaining what christianity really is and was always meant to be. and to try to debunk all the embarassing stuff that passes for christianity but isn't. this'll take lots of posts, but the fakers are giving the real thing a black eye.

I'LL START A NEW THREAD AND NOT INTEREFERE WITH THE STATIONARY EARTH DISCUSSION.
i used to be an 'agnostic' too - bascially i was actually a tender-hearted hedonist/pagan. indulge, feel guilty or not so good after a time. but with long periods of 'happiness". but there was always that THING lurking ahead - death.

i'm still self-centered and a failure who sins. i'm changed though, and slowing changing more. i like me better than the old me thats for sure. and the changes weren't bootstrap behaviour mod - they were interventions from God, from the inside out.

cuz i have a Saviour, Who is God, The One who has numbered every hair on my head and formed me in the womb and knows me by name.

Who has promised to, and is able to, and absolutely will escort me from the moment of my death into His presence.

eternal life: and all arranged for me in spite of my prior inclination to scoff, ridicule, doubt, deny and so on. (and my ongoing inability to do what's right all the time or most of the time...only now now i know the DIFFERENCE and my spirit struggles to do what's right and good...i fail though).

only thing i had to do was stop silencing my conscience (God-given) which was telling me i had a far more serious problem than global warming or self esteem. i had a sin debt (sins and crimes against the Creator) that needed payment.

once i found out i couldn't pay it....i had a REALLY big problem.

then i found out the Creator and Judge had already taken care of that problem in the person of Jesus Christ on the cross, and that He had set me free to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness....for real, without fear, in expectation of a life eternal in a new dimension/world where all this other stuff like flesh and and hate and pain and death are gone.

what an amazing thing: to be on death row here, fully guilty and you know it. no hope. no way out. and the clock ticks.

then you get a call saying you didn't get a pardon, you got a full aquittal and were free to go in peace....(even though you were 100% guilty)....all because the Warden paid the debt Himself.

not a pardon, where everybody knows you WERE guilty but got off...no, this is a full acquittal - a declaration of total innocence. NOT GUILTY.
as if the crime never happened. and no danger of double jeopardy.

God is able to be completely Just, AND the justifier of the ungodly (me and you) because Someone else did everything on our behalf....and He was 100% innocent.

if we are willing place our faith in theoretical science that never really proves nor PROMISES anything...why not trust God?

anyways...back to empiric....i mean theoretical 'science'....

oscarkipling wrote:well, I generally use it to indicate that I dont claim to "know" that there is no god, this might be a more of a colloquial usage than whatever the rigidy philosophical definition might be..but that's how I use it..

How fascinating oscar. But now I'm confused. How can that possibly be used in conjunction with 'atheist'?

oscarkipling wrote:Anyway I'm an atheist/agnostic, just looking around.

Isn't an atheist someone who knows theres no God?

Nice post zonus.

Notice she didnt mention anything about reaching perfection, transforming this fallen world or erm.....wonderous gifts of the blabbering and such.

Nuttin but Christ and Him crucified. There really is not much more to it. All ya need to know.

Strangelove wrote:

How fascinating oscar. But now I'm confused. How can that possibly be used in conjunction with 'atheist'?



Isn't an atheist someone who knows theres no God?

well i suppose many people would say that an atheist is a person that believes that they know there isn't a god or gods, but I tend toward a slightly differnt definition. That is, an athiest is a person that doesn't believe there is a god or gods. To say it another way I have not found compelling evidence for the existence of most conceptions of God or Gods. There are some God that are contradicted by evidence, and on those gods I am not agnostic. However there are some conceptions of Gods which are constructed in such a way that they are opaque to scientific investigation, and on those Gods I am agnostic, yet without positive evidence I do not believe they exist. So I think you can see how both, either or neither of those descriptors could be applicable depending on what God(s) is being proposed.

zone wrote:
okay. i reckon i'm called a believer cuz i know there's a God.


in my experience with my family who rejects Christianity, they use the term AGNOSTIC as a polite (PC) word for atheist. i think its actually a polite term for pagan. which is not a derogatory term in itself.

maybe you mean to say you're open to the idea there is a God, but you're not committed to accepting or admitting it - undecided? or are you decided.

cuz i like you oscarkipling, and i was like you in agnosticism once.

maybe i can fumble through explaining what christianity really is and was always meant to be. and to try to debunk all the embarassing stuff that passes for christianity but isn't. this'll take lots of posts, but the fakers are giving the real thing a black eye.

I'LL START A NEW THREAD AND NOT INTEREFERE WITH THE STATIONARY EARTH DISCUSSION.
i used to be an 'agnostic' too - bascially i was actually a tender-hearted hedonist/pagan. indulge, feel guilty or not so good after a time. but with long periods of 'happiness". but there was always that THING lurking ahead - death.

i'm still self-centered and a failure who sins. i'm changed though, and slowing changing more. i like me better than the old me thats for sure. and the changes weren't bootstrap behaviour mod - they were interventions from God, from the inside out.

cuz i have a Saviour, Who is God, The One who has numbered every hair on my head and formed me in the womb and knows me by name.

Who has promised to, and is able to, and absolutely will escort me from the moment of my death into His presence.

eternal life: and all arranged for me in spite of my prior inclination to scoff, ridicule, doubt, deny and so on. (and my ongoing inability to do what's right all the time or most of the time...only now now i know the DIFFERENCE and my spirit struggles to do what's right and good...i fail though).

only thing i had to do was stop silencing my conscience (God-given) which was telling me i had a far more serious problem than global warming or self esteem. i had a sin debt (sins and crimes against the Creator) that needed payment.

once i found out i couldn't pay it....i had a REALLY big problem.

then i found out the Creator and Judge had already taken care of that problem in the person of Jesus Christ on the cross, and that He had set me free to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness....for real, without fear, in expectation of a life eternal in a new dimension/world where all this other stuff like flesh and and hate and pain and death are gone.

what an amazing thing: to be on death row here, fully guilty and you know it. no hope. no way out. and the clock ticks.

then you get a call saying you didn't get a pardon, you got a full aquittal and were free to go in peace....(even though you were 100% guilty)....all because the Warden paid the debt Himself.

not a pardon, where everybody knows you WERE guilty but got off...no, this is a full acquittal - a declaration of total innocence. NOT GUILTY.
as if the crime never happened. and no danger of double jeopardy.

God is able to be completely Just, AND the justifier of the ungodly (me and you) because Someone else did everything on our behalf....and He was 100% innocent.

if we are willing place our faith in theoretical science that never really proves nor PROMISES anything...why not trust God?

anyways...back to empiric....i mean theoretical 'science'....

well honestly i'm not too hung up on what anyone calls me in regards to my beliefs. I think it is generally thought of to be a bit more PC though. I am open to the possibility of thier being a god, I am currently unconvinced though. Thank you for sharing your testimony (thats the right word right?), and I'm genuinely glad that you feel that your life is better now. I dont place any more faith in science than I am able to reasonable assess its veracity. I think that science in general probably doesn't in itself promise anything, but scientific endevour has led to plenty of useful and practical stuff.

What would convince you there is a God oscar?

What kind of evidence would be required?

G'night.

Strangelove wrote:What would convince you there is a God oscar?

What kind of evidence would be required?

G'night.

well I've always said, if God or Jesus would come down maybe as an apparition and converse with me at breakfast time I'd probably become a believer if he was sufficiently knowledgeable, and I could confirm the information. I think another thing that could convince me is the biblical apocalypse, that is considering I'm alive long enough to watch it unfold. but i suppose it could be as simple a series of really fantastic arguements .

oscarkipling wrote:

well I've always said, if God or Jesus would come down maybe as an apparition and converse with me at breakfast time I'd probably become a believer if he was sufficiently knowledgeable, and I could confirm the information. I think another thing that could convince me is the biblical apocalypse, that is considering I'm alive long enough to watch it unfold. but i suppose it could be as simple a series of really fantastic arguements .

hi oscar.
that sounds reasonable.
what did you eat for breakfast?

kinda cool how grapefruit has the seed of itself inside.

all the information required to start-up another grapefruit right there in that seed. but....it has to have the information needed for a tree to grow first and produce a blossom, and then the fruit.

then you pick it with that amazing hand of yours...and eat it.

i wonder why a grapefruit seed will NEVER EVER EVER (i wish carl sagan was here to say eons and eons) produce a cauliflower...or a monkey...UNLESS SOMEBODY splices in the information to change it.

mr. rothschild's monsanto are busily doing that now...making nightmares. but they're not 'creating' anything. chimeras don't count. they're abominations. but the masons like that junk.

~

Jesus already came once. read His story.
start with Matthew and read through to John.

and you are living through the eschaton right now...you'll see it go down exactly as Jesus said it would.

ttyl oscar.
zone.

p.s: if you do some readin' up on the darwins you'll reject their inbred crackpot theories. if you're smart enough to reject their silliness....then what do we need those increeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedibly long periods of time since the big bang for?

zone wrote:

hi oscar.
that sounds reasonable.
what did you eat for breakfast?

I had a couple of miniature hamburgers.

zone wrote:
kinda cool how grapefruit has the seed of itself inside.

all the information required to start-up another grapefruit right there in that seed. but....it has to have the information needed for a tree to grow first and produce a blossom, and then the fruit.

then you pick it with that amazing hand of yours...and eat it.

yeah biology is amazing.

zone wrote:
i wonder why a grapefruit seed will NEVER EVER EVER (i wish carl sagan was here to say eons and eons) produce a cauliflower...or a monkey...UNLESS SOMEBODY splices in the information to change it.

There are perfectly good reasons why a grapefruit tree wont evolve into a monkey, but its not impossible for it to evolve into something that resembles a monkey or a cauliflower....I mean that is to say if evolution does occur then its not impossible.

zone wrote:
mr. rothschild's monsanto are busily doing that now...making nightmares. but they're not 'creating' anything. chimeras don't count. they're abominations. but the masons like that junk.

Monsanto is making grapefruit monkeys?

zone wrote:
Jesus already came once. read His story.
start with Matthew and read through to John.

I've done that already.

zone wrote:
and you are living through the eschaton right now...you'll see it go down exactly as Jesus said it would.

ttyl oscar.
zone.

I guess we'll see

zone wrote:
p.s: if you do some readin' up on the darwins you'll reject their inbred crackpot theories. if you're smart enough to reject their silliness....then what do we need those increeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedibly long periods of time since the big bang for?

well I doubt that I would reject Darwin's theory based on the personalities of Darwin or his family. I like to judge scientific theory on its own merits, and not based on who proposed it.

oscarkipling wrote:well I've always said, if God or Jesus would come down maybe as an apparition and converse with me at breakfast time I'd probably become a believer if he was sufficiently knowledgeable, and I could confirm the information.

Ok so, Jesus coming down as an apparition is obviously not good enough cuz it could be a hologram or you got spiked with acid. So you qualify it with "sufficiently knowledgeable, and I could confirm the information"

What knowledge?

And how would you confirm it?

Give us an example would you my new found buddy?

oscarkipling wrote:
I think another thing that could convince me is the biblical apocalypse, that is considering I'm alive long enough to watch it unfold. but i suppose it could be as simple a series of really fantastic arguements .

Define 'biblical apocolypse please.