Calvinism

ada wrote:
Oh yea you deny calvinism for yourself but this forum is called calvinism isn't it brothers and sisters?
So it does not mater what you saying you are still in the doctrine if you defend its tenets.Or am i wrong?

You can call me a calvinist if you like but I'm not defending 'calvinism' I'm defending the doctrine of predestination and election that is CLEARLY taught in the bible. Yes I'm in that doctrine. I've defended it..now its your turn to counter. Lets talk about what the bible says not what pigeonholes you wanna put people in.

ada wrote:
Listen i don't want to hurt anyone feelings i am here to learn.And please don't laugh at me.Your "Lol" and "Lolz" shows a kind of conduct.

Loosen up man.

ada wrote:
Studying the bible is not the only source of godly revelation its only a road map.It never reflect the whole fullness of Gods nature.

Oh here we go. Dont tell me the bible doesnt hold all truth. Please dont.

ada wrote:
In accepting tenets of calvinism it may have harden someones hearts.Depending on general tenets tends to listen to the many experts who are better educated and studied than yourself.

I have accepted the tenets of SCRIPTURE not 'calvinism' ok? I've never read a word by the man. Are you listening to me? Or do you just not believe me?

ada wrote:
So you are in a danger to merely listen to man than to listen what Jesus is saying directly to your heart.

God speaks to us through His Word. Or does Jesus actually speak to you ada? Like...audibly?

ada wrote:
So the bible alone is not the true logos the true word of God.The true logos the true word of God is Jesus Christ, God himself.We should never make a competition between biblical law oriented tenets and the fullness of Gods being. The foremost order is in "vertically" looking for Him to know him more and more day by day.

Is that just a roundabout way of saying "I dont want to talk about the scriptures"?

So your gonna call us 'calvinists' and say we're wrong and thats it, and not actually discuss what the bible says about the doctrines of predestination and election?

O-K then.

Rename the forum from calvinism to exclusive election and predestination
by rejection that the Gospel is for everyone or something like that; than i would believe you..
Seems this PREDESTINATION and ELECTION thing gives you a hard time.
Its the same old story christian judaizers never stop judaizing the gospel.
I tell you why.Its about control, priesthood pharisaic control.
They are obligated to do so,remember?
Further your emphasizing parts by simultaneously ignoring others is a license to sin,
meaning you not really lose salvation if you supposed to be elected.
But remember you have to be born again.
And yes i do not believe that the Scriptures hold all possible truths but only those
God wanted us to know about.

>>Loosen up man.
I am are you?

Just between the line commenting on my testifies is not noble.
How about your stance in words by your own?

ada
if calvin or luther or anyone else saw the 5 Solas in Scripture, i agree with them on that.

that is what is in the SoF.

you say salvation depends on God looking down the corridors of time, and seeing a heart that is devoted to Him, then He chooses that one.

i know you are aware that Scriptures says NO ONE SEEKS AFTER GOD.

you are also aware that the Bible says there is NONE righteous, NOT ONE.

i would ask you to name a SINGLE character in the Bible that is listed as God's friend or chosen to salvation who did not FIRST "find favour" with God: i.e.: Abram, Noah, etc.
the great men of faith in Hebrews (11) were ALL chosen by God. some of them were murderers.

He came to save SINNERS.

it is God who chooses. men find Grace (unmerited favour) unto salvation...through faith (a gift) when they receive the engrafted words of the Gospel and are raised from the dead to eternal life (in this world). >> these are all gifts.

you hold to a view that just isn't supported: that God grants salvation to men who first love Him, and love Him enough. He doesn't PROMISE them eternal life if they believe on Jesus (love Him)...it is only an offer, and the man must be good enough to be worthy to enter heaven.

could you talk a little about HOW the Bible explains that God justifies the ungodly?

please leave antinomianism (license to sin) out of this...i do not go for that at all.

what i do know, is that even after justification, during sanctification; ALL SAVED MEN STILL FALL SHORT.

since a single transgression of the Law is sin, and one sin means we break the whole Law, how will any men be good enough to enter heaven?

you say a reading which sees that it is through the Sovereignty of God that salvation is granted to men leads to PRIDE.

i find this perplexing, since only the OPPOSITE can be true.

~

SNIP

~

an armenian view such as you hold is one that will lead to boasting (pride), for the man will be able to say "but I LOVED AND WAS DEVOTED TO GOD SUFFICIENTLY, therefore i am worthy."

i can say with all my heart: i never knew God...i lived in sin...i was blind....i did not seek God. but He came FOR ME. and he washed me. and set me free.

and this is marvelous is my eyes, for it is ALL HIM.

love zone.

Zone did Solomon found favor in God after his heart turned away and opened it to
all kind of foreign satanic false gods and goddesses like moloch,ashtoreth astarte,
brought into his house by his seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines.

Developing kabbalistic black magic and so forth.The result was a dissection of Israel in the
northern and southern tribes.You know solomon not only build the first temple for god,
he build worship places for the many false gods as well.
For instance moloch whom they sacrified little children.Did they stop after God punished
them with enemies like the edomites.No they did not stop.
They scarified children to moloch further 350 year after all,so God send them the babylonians
after all the vicious places around Jerusalem were destroyed.

Your viewpoint is still the alleged chosen centric faith and thats the problem from the start.
Abraham was a father of MANY nations but the jews falsely tricked it as their exclusive covenant.

ada wrote:Zone did Solomon found favor in God after his heart turned away and opened it to
all kind of foreign satanic false gods and goddesses like moloch,ashtoreth astarte,
brought into his house by his seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines.

Developing kabbalistic black magic and so forth.The result was a dissection of Israel in the
northern and southern tribes.You know solomon not only build the first temple for god,
he build worship places for the many false gods as well.
For instance moloch whom they sacrified little children.Did they stop after God punished
them with enemies like the edomites.No they did not stop.
They scarified children to moloch further 350 year after all,so God send them the babylonians
after all the vicious places around Jerusalem were destroyed.

Your viewpoint is still the alleged chosen centric faith and thats the problem from the start.
Abraham was a father of MANY nations but the jews falsely tricked it as their exclusive covenant.

but ada.
all of those things are on the other side of Calvary.
if you want to believe that i will walk away from Jesus, or that he will cast me aside in that day because i didn't reach perfect holiness in the flesh, that's ok.

i trust Him to save to the uttermost those who are being saved.

i'l delete my previous post in T minus 60 seconds

answer for me if you can how you yourself will receive eternal life? what will your arrival in heaven be based on ada?

please keep it simple.

ada wrote:Rename the forum from calvinism to exclusive election and predestination
by rejection that the Gospel is for everyone or something like that; than i would believe you..
Seems this PREDESTINATION and ELECTION thing gives you a hard time.

It gives ME a hard time?? Wow...just wow. You wont address a SINGLE scripture I've posted while I've answered all of yours and this is what you have to say? Staggering.

ada wrote:Its the same old story christian judaizers never stop judaizing the gospel.
I tell you why.Its about control, priesthood pharisaic control.
They are obligated to do so,remember?

YOU are judaizing the Gospel ada. YOU are. For you, the Gospel is all about the stuff that YOU do that decides whether you are saved or not. It's all about YOUR performance. It's LEGALISM. It's the ULTIMATE judaization. Instead of giving all glory to God, you make it about YOUR works.

ada wrote:
Further your emphasizing parts by simultaneously ignoring others is a license to sin,
meaning you not really lose salvation if you supposed to be elected.

LOLZ! WHAT 'parts' have I ignored? Why do you keep saying that? I addressed every scripture you posted and you have considered NONE of mine. If anyone is ignoring it is you.

The old 'license to sin' argument eh? Yaaaaaaaaawn.

ada wrote:
But remember you have to be born again.
And yes i do not believe that the Scriptures hold all possible truths but only those
God wanted us to know about.

Huh?

ada wrote:
>>Loosen up man.
I am are you?
Just between the line commenting on my testifies is not noble.
How about your stance in words by your own?

Huh again?

Anyway...continue judaizing the Gospel and making it all about works if you want. Ya..ok....you are responsible for your own salvation. You materialized your faith out of thin air *poof* hey presto there it is. Man gives HIMSELF his measure of faith not God.

A bit hypocritical though.

Whenever you wanna talk about what the scriptures say I'll be here.

Please dont delete that post Zone. That was beautiful.

i'll leave it a few more minutes Doc.

i'll just leave this with the following:

if Jesus casts me aside in That Day, and orders thrown me into the Lake of Fire, it will be because HE HAS SAID IT IS RIGHT AND GOOD TO DO SO, AND THAT I DESERVE IT.

and i won't like it, i suppose, but i will AGREE. for He is Righteous, and i am not.

zone wrote:

but ada.
all of those things are on the other side of Calvary.
if you want to believe that i will walk away from Jesus, or that he will cast me aside in that day because i didn't reach perfect holiness in the flesh, that's ok.

i trust Him to save to the uttermost those who are being saved.

i'l delete my previous post in T minus 60 seconds

answer for me if you can how you yourself will receive eternal life? what will your arrival in heaven be based on ada?

please keep it simple.

Again this forum is called CALVINISM.
And of cause Jesus came to save sinners!
Rename the forum and i will stop arguing to your fault
of defending calvinism.

But i am afraid you won't cause you love
the cult of exclusive predestination and election
by rejecting the fact the Jesus mean ALL sinners who
have faith in Him.And again you only chose parts of
the bible that gave you the license to willingly sin again after
you gave your life to Jesus.

Elitist thinking is an anathema in Gods eye.
This is also known as talmudic thinking.
It leads to the wish to control others.
You know that do you?
Humble your heart and please do not harden
your heart and forehead with this cult.
Read Ezekiel 3 and you know what i mean.

Oh ada...stop being silly.

Anyone would think you've been seriously traumatized by scary Calvinists as a child.

Look, come here and lets hear your argument against assurance and election.

Doctrine of Election & Assurance

No one needs to mention the C word.

Strangelove wrote:Oh ada...stop being silly.

Are all calvinist that arrogant ?
There must be some evidence..
http://www.google.de/search?q="arrogant+calvinist"&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


James 4:6
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

This is just meant to urge you friendly not to be arrogant.
See how this also refutes parts of your doctrine.
Cause pride is a conduct or attribute is an act of man..

ada wrote:Again this forum is called CALVINISM.
And of cause Jesus came to save sinners!
Rename the forum and i will stop arguing to your fault
of defending calvinism.

But i am afraid you won't cause you love
the cult of exclusive predestination and election
by rejecting the fact the Jesus mean ALL sinners who
have faith in Him.And again you only chose parts of
the bible that gave you the license to willingly sin again after
you gave your life to Jesus.

Elitist thinking is an anathema in Gods eye.
This is also known as talmudic thinking.
It leads to the wish to control others.
You know that do you?
Humble your heart and please do not harden
your heart and forehead with this cult.
Read Ezekiel 3 and you know what i mean.

1) this THREAD is "Calvinism"
2) the forum is called Christian Wilderness forum.
3) you are a member of the forum - does that mean you believe in Calvin?
4) "And again you only chose parts of the bible that gave you the license to willingly sin again after you gave your life to Jesus."

are you my Judge? from all the way over in Germany?
do you know what i do each day ada?

what if i cast the same stones at you? from Canada over the ether waves.
i wonder....you may not run to the pub at night...but are you harbouring hatred in your heart?

this appears to come down to antinomianism for you, ada: and that's a legitimate concern. now, what OTHER objections do you have to ASSURANCE OF SALVATION?

i asked you previously, on what grounds will you enter eternity?

you are becoming very passionate about this debate, and that's fine with me.
before i continue, though, i ask you to answer ONE question:

QUESTION: ARE YOU STILL A SINNER ADA?

YES OR NO.

Zone i am only owe this answer my Lord Jesus and not to you.
Do question this yourself if you like. I am only here to question elitist general claims of calvinism.And if you or doc call me silly or laugh about be is not so crucial.As it is always the questions is what do you defend and why.Questions over questions..

zone wrote:
1) this THREAD is "Calvinism"
2) the forum is called Christian Wilderness forum.
3) you are a member of the forum - does that mean you believe in Calvin?
4) "And again you only chose parts of the bible that gave you the license to willingly sin again after you gave your life to Jesus."

are you my Judge? from all the way over in Germany?
do you know what i do each day ada?

what if i cast the same stones at you? from Canada over the ether waves.
i wonder....you may not run to the pub at night...but are you harbouring hatred in your heart?

Why do feel angry about me.Did i attack you directly like you do?
Most people accusing others of hatred mainly have it by their selves
same as the judging argument.Where did i judge you directly,but you do.
Please calm down i am not your enemy,ok?
When i ask doc whether calvinists may be arrogant this is general spoken.
If you feel your were meant thats not my fault.

Zone ok i read over my post again.
You was right,you could have had the impression
that i was attacking you directly.
That was not my intention.Sorry !
I left the general spoken way about my testify
against calvinism.

I take a break now.
And the best would be
i leave certain things out here.

From the beginning is did not
expect that this is such a hot topic
for you and may be you not too.

Oh wow i missed allot on this conversation.

Just a question for reformed/calvinism belivers. Hi zone Im not attaking...this is a crucial, honest question. And i havent really folowed this conversation since the last time. So maybe you kinda covered it. I know most here dont consider themselves calvanists...but bare with me...

According to the westminster confession, everything that has ever happened or ever will happen has been predestined by God to happen.

Right? Correct me if im wrong?

Every sinful act, every heinous act ever committed, was preordained by God and decreed by God to occur and there was no possibility it could have happened any other way? So that being said, every person who does evil acts are doing the will of God? SO how can it be that anyone is NOT doing the will of God? EVERYONE is doing what God predestined to occur, it cant happen any other way according to Calvanism. In the bible if you sin, are you doing the will of God? nooo...
But in Calvanism ALL acts, EVERYTHING is preordained. Yes?

ada wrote:Are all calvinist that arrogant ?

It's called rebuking.

And your doing it again. Calling people names instead of answering questions.

You duck scripture (But scripture isn't the issue for you is it...its the logos). You duck honest questions from Christians. So come back to that thread I linked to whenever your ready to talk about election and assurance.

I'll be waiting.

KingdomSeeker wrote:Oh wow i missed allot on this conversation.

Just a question for reformed/calvinism belivers. Hi zone Im not attaking...this is a crucial, honest question. And i havent really folowed this conversation since the last time. So maybe you kinda covered it. I know most here dont consider themselves calvanists...but bare with me...

According to the westminster confession, everything that has ever happened or ever will happen has been predestined by God to happen.

Right? Correct me if im wrong?

Every sinful act, every heinous act ever committed, was preordained by God and decreed by God to occur and there was no possibility it could have happened any other way? So that being said, every person who does evil acts are doing the will of God? SO how can it be that anyone is NOT doing the will of God? EVERYONE is doing what God predestined to occur, it cant happen any other way according to Calvanism. In the bible if you sin, are you doing the will of God? nooo...
But in Calvanism ALL acts, EVERYTHING is preordained. Yes?

Rob....the most heinous act ever committed was the crucifiction of our Lord Jesus.

Was it decreed by God to occur? The answer is obviously yes. Believers are saved BY HIS BLOOD.

People sinned in the act of doing this horrible thing. (Sin is OF THE DEVIL). Does that mean that God decreed every single sinful act along the way? Or did He just make some the vessels of destruction and lengthened satan's leash to tempt people to sin , thus pre-ordaining this event to occur?

Do we really need to break it down so far as to say that God DECREES SIN?

G'night.

ada wrote:
Zone i am only owe this answer my Lord Jesus and not to you.
Do question this yourself if you like. I am only here to question elitist general claims of calvinism.And if you or doc call me silly or laugh about be is not so crucial.As it is always the questions is what do you defend and why.Questions over questions..

hi ada.
i don't hold to any elitist views of salvation. i believe God decides.

i'll answer my own question: yes, i am still a sinner. God's Laws have not changed.

therefore, i am in need of a Righteousness that is not my own. the Righteousness i need imputed to my account must be Eternally Perfect and Perfectly Holy.

there's only One Man who is those things.

i didn't call you silly, and i'm not laughing at you.

doc and i have been through a lot together and he is my best friend. we share a certain form of humour.

i don't have all the answers to the Christian faith. i only know what i know at this time, and i am learning, and trying to help the church.

i fall short, and often make things worse than if i had not attempted to do or say anything at all. but this forum is my internet Home and i will express myself as clearly as i can.

in Christ,
zone.

ada wrote:
Zone ok i read over my post again.
You was right,you could have had the impression
that i was attacking you directly.
That was not my intention.Sorry !
I left the general spoken way about my testify
against calvinism.

it's okay ada.
no offense taken, and i meant none.
these are very important issues and its good we can talk about them.
zone.

KingdomSeeker wrote:Oh wow i missed allot on this conversation.

Just a question for reformed/calvinism belivers. Hi zone Im not attaking...this is a crucial, honest question. And i havent really folowed this conversation since the last time. So maybe you kinda covered it. I know most here dont consider themselves calvanists...but bare with me...

According to the westminster confession, everything that has ever happened or ever will happen has been predestined by God to happen.

Right? Correct me if im wrong?

Every sinful act, every heinous act ever committed, was preordained by God and decreed by God to occur and there was no possibility it could have happened any other way? So that being said, every person who does evil acts are doing the will of God? SO how can it be that anyone is NOT doing the will of God? EVERYONE is doing what God predestined to occur, it cant happen any other way according to Calvanism. In the bible if you sin, are you doing the will of God? nooo...
But in Calvanism ALL acts, EVERYTHING is preordained. Yes?

hi rob.
i don't know what the westminster confession says.
and i haven't read up much on calvinism.

i believe God is all powerful and calls things that are as if they were not and so on.

i do not know why He has not destroyed us all, i do not know why He allowed Adam to fall, and i do not know why He called me out of darkness to His marvellous Light.

one day we will see Him, and be like Him.

until then, i see through a glass darkly.

i believe in the 5 Solas.

i reject Moralistic Pietism which is Pharisaical/works righteousness
i reject Pentecostalism/Charismatic activity
i reject dispensational dual covenant theology
i reject dominionism of all kinds
i reject mystical and ritualistic religion.

zone.

Strangelove wrote:
the most heinous act ever committed was the crucifiction of our Lord Jesus.

Was it decreed by God to occur? The answer is obviously yes. Believers are saved BY HIS BLOOD.

People sinned in the act of doing this horrible thing. (Sin is OF THE DEVIL). Does that mean that God decreed every single sinful act along the way? Or did He just make some the vessels of destruction and lengthened satan's leash to tempt people to sin , thus pre-ordaining this event to occur?

Do we really need to break it down so far as to say that God DECREES SIN?

G'night.

wow.
that's a good answer doc.
way back in Genesis God declared the serpent's cult would bruise the Lord's heel, but that he would crush its head.

and to the day He followed through.

He keeps EVERY PROMISE, and he has promised to save to uttermost those who repent and believe in Him.

Matthew 10
Have No Fear

26“So have no fear of them, for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 27What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops. 28And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.^f 29Are not two sparrows sold for a penny?^g And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. 31Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows. 32So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, 33but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.