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Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by strangelove Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:26 pm
Please post quotes from 'Christians' in this thread that make you just drop your sandwich on the floor.
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by Son of Israel Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:00 pm
I dropped my toast butter side down for years...
Having been raised a jew of sorts, the idea of our "people" being "chosen" was taken for granted.
Then I began reading the Bible... rut rho!
I thank my Messiah Jesus to have delivered me from that apostacy of jewish fables
Now I really AM chosen, in my Messiah!
Since then I've learned that was the doctrine of dispensationalsim and that all the "futurism" I see in "christianity" is a grand delusion that God sends upon those who love a lie. I loved it too! God have mercy on us all!
Having been raised a jew of sorts, the idea of our "people" being "chosen" was taken for granted.
Then I began reading the Bible... rut rho!
I thank my Messiah Jesus to have delivered me from that apostacy of jewish fables
Now I really AM chosen, in my Messiah!Since then I've learned that was the doctrine of dispensationalsim and that all the "futurism" I see in "christianity" is a grand delusion that God sends upon those who love a lie. I loved it too! God have mercy on us all!
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by zone Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:31 pm
rut rho! indeed!Son of Israel wrote:I dropped my toast butter side down for years...
Having been raised a jew of sorts, the idea of our "people" being "chosen" was taken for granted.
Then I began reading the Bible... rut rho!
I thank my Messiah Jesus to have delivered me from that apostacy of jewish fables
Since then I've learned that was the doctrine of dispensationalsim and that all the "futurism" I see in "christianity" is a grand delusion that God sends upon those who love a lie. I loved it too! God have mercy on us all!
Son, your story sounds a little like Doc's.
how did you come to begin reading the Bible?
what made you question what you'd been taught?
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by zone Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:39 pm
hehehe...that's a tough one Doc.
here's some rank heresy, but your OP said "Christian"...oh well...
Extreme Prophetic: Raising the Dead Testimonies
here's some rank heresy, but your OP said "Christian"...oh well...
Extreme Prophetic: Raising the Dead Testimonies
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by Son of Israel Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:16 am
Oh zone, it was a nasty piece of work that a Christian man of God came across when He met me in my early twenties. He had been raised an SDA, in a family converted from Judaism. He was well equipped with the Word and loved it more than I. It was infectious. 
After a few more years of putting up with my stubborn dispensational/Jewish hybrid dumb self, I actually began to pray for knowledge wisdom and understanding. I promised God that I would trade everything for that. My marriage, my home, job, children, everything, if He would answer my prayer.
So of course, I lost all that. But came to that point where I was to ask Jesus to come and dwell into me as He Promised. So I did! Then He did!!
We rushed to the river to baptise me and no looking back from that point
I was disowned from all Jews in my family as well as relatives that were Christians. What I learned from God wasn't/isn't in any churches or synagogues. It took me 15 years to exhaust every church to realize that was true. I broke bread with them all lol, (if they let me) and didn't get polluted with guilt by association, I just don't understand hehe. I sure got the right foot of fellowship often hehe.
I learned that the Jews and the "christians" are all in the same bed of dispensationalism, which is the biggest apostacy that exists, robbing more souls than any other issue, except maybe sin itself.
I could go on and on but dinner is ready, I can see it Around here we say, where there's smoke, there's dinner
Blessings!
After a few more years of putting up with my stubborn dispensational/Jewish hybrid dumb self, I actually began to pray for knowledge wisdom and understanding. I promised God that I would trade everything for that. My marriage, my home, job, children, everything, if He would answer my prayer.
So of course, I lost all that. But came to that point where I was to ask Jesus to come and dwell into me as He Promised. So I did! Then He did!!
We rushed to the river to baptise me and no looking back from that point
I was disowned from all Jews in my family as well as relatives that were Christians. What I learned from God wasn't/isn't in any churches or synagogues. It took me 15 years to exhaust every church to realize that was true. I broke bread with them all lol, (if they let me) and didn't get polluted with guilt by association, I just don't understand hehe. I sure got the right foot of fellowship often hehe.
I learned that the Jews and the "christians" are all in the same bed of dispensationalism, which is the biggest apostacy that exists, robbing more souls than any other issue, except maybe sin itself.
I could go on and on but dinner is ready, I can see it
Around here we say, where there's smoke, there's dinner Blessings!
zone wrote:rut rho! indeed!Son of Israel wrote:I dropped my toast butter side down for years...
Having been raised a jew of sorts, the idea of our "people" being "chosen" was taken for granted.
Then I began reading the Bible... rut rho!
I thank my Messiah Jesus to have delivered me from that apostacy of jewish fables
Since then I've learned that was the doctrine of dispensationalsim and that all the "futurism" I see in "christianity" is a grand delusion that God sends upon those who love a lie. I loved it too! God have mercy on us all!
Son, your story sounds a little like Doc's.
how did you come to begin reading the Bible?
what made you question what you'd been taught?
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by strangelove Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:38 pm
Heres a recent quote from a forum I'm currently frequenting:
Oh boy.
1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath
both the Father and the Son.
1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him
not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
When I first joined CFS some years back, it was a friendly site. Would-be members were carefully screened before they were admitted, and by-and-large everyone was respectful of others' beliefs, and we were able to fellowship together in spite of the fact that we may have held opposing doctrines.
Oh boy.
1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath
both the Father and the Son.
1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him
not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by KingdomSeeker Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:07 am
Oooo I Got ONE. Its Ironic too.(considering the title of the thread here..and room...)
2 Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,"
So what some have done...is this:
646 apostasia {ap-os-tas-ee'-ah}
feminine of the same as 647; TDNT - 1:513,88; n f
AV - to forsake + 575 1, falling away 1; 2
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy
647 apostasion {ap-os-tas'-ee-on}
neuter of a (presumed) adj. from a derivative of 868;; n n
AV - divorcement 2, writing of divorcement 1; 3
1) divorce, repudiation
2) a bill of divorce
575 apo {apo'}
a primary particle;; preposition
AV - from 393, of 129, out of 48, for 10, off 10, by 9, at 9,
in 6, since + 3739 5, on 5, not tr. 16, misc. 31; 671
1) of separation
1a) of local separation, after verbs of motion from a place
i.e. of departing, of fleeing, ...
1b) of separation of a part from the whole
1b1) where of a whole some part is taken
1c) of any kind of separation of one thing from another by
which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed
1d) of a state of separation, that is of distance
1d1) physical, of distance of place
1d2) temporal, of distance of time
2) of origin
2a) of the place whence anything is, comes, befalls, is taken
2b) of origin of a cause
They Say that Paul is actually saying that Apostasy is not a breaking away of the faith....but a Departure...a RAPTURE..of the church.
Now, i used to beleive in a pre-trib rapture/dispensationalism..up until well, pretty recently...several months ago...But i NEVER heard this before...it made me think...and re-think even...Not change my mind...but truly ....this is WEIRD to me....
I even almost believed it...up untill I saw this:
"The scriptures about taken and left; those left are abandoned & forsaken, and will descend into apostasy during the seven year tribulation. "
I was like...hey...wait...you cant do that...go through all that work to show that the word means something...and though its pushing it...i see that you are correct...but then you just refute all evidence...by using it to mean a falling away from the faith!!
So to these people...the Apostasia is comming. Which will result in Apostasia. ...
..they make my brain hurt..
Heres the rest of the "Study"...actually...aside from being a vain attempt to prove themsleves correct...its actually a pretty good little study in the greek:
http://www.bibleprophesy.org/apostasia.htm
2 Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,"
So what some have done...is this:
646 apostasia {ap-os-tas-ee'-ah}
feminine of the same as 647; TDNT - 1:513,88; n f
AV - to forsake + 575 1, falling away 1; 2
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy
647 apostasion {ap-os-tas'-ee-on}
neuter of a (presumed) adj. from a derivative of 868;; n n
AV - divorcement 2, writing of divorcement 1; 3
1) divorce, repudiation
2) a bill of divorce
575 apo {apo'}
a primary particle;; preposition
AV - from 393, of 129, out of 48, for 10, off 10, by 9, at 9,
in 6, since + 3739 5, on 5, not tr. 16, misc. 31; 671
1) of separation
1a) of local separation, after verbs of motion from a place
i.e. of departing, of fleeing, ...
1b) of separation of a part from the whole
1b1) where of a whole some part is taken
1c) of any kind of separation of one thing from another by
which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed
1d) of a state of separation, that is of distance
1d1) physical, of distance of place
1d2) temporal, of distance of time
2) of origin
2a) of the place whence anything is, comes, befalls, is taken
2b) of origin of a cause
They Say that Paul is actually saying that Apostasy is not a breaking away of the faith....but a Departure...a RAPTURE..of the church.
Now, i used to beleive in a pre-trib rapture/dispensationalism..up until well, pretty recently...several months ago...But i NEVER heard this before...it made me think...and re-think even...Not change my mind...but truly ....this is WEIRD to me....
I even almost believed it...up untill I saw this:
"The scriptures about taken and left; those left are abandoned & forsaken, and will descend into apostasy during the seven year tribulation. "
I was like...hey...wait...you cant do that...go through all that work to show that the word means something...and though its pushing it...i see that you are correct...but then you just refute all evidence...by using it to mean a falling away from the faith!!
So to these people...the Apostasia is comming. Which will result in Apostasia. ...
..they make my brain hurt..Heres the rest of the "Study"...actually...aside from being a vain attempt to prove themsleves correct...its actually a pretty good little study in the greek:
http://www.bibleprophesy.org/apostasia.htm
Last edited by KingdomSeeker on Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by strangelove Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:11 am
KingdomSeeker wrote:They Say that Paul is actually saying that Apostasy is not a breaking away of the faith....but a Departure...a RAPTURE..of the church.
ROFL!
Thats a new one.
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by Hitch Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:50 pm
I reckon the DF notion of the 'parenthetical church age' is the worst thing American believers have falllen for in the last 100 years or so. Its based on an extremely low view of the work of the cross and the ministry of the Holy Spirit . This can lead folks into believing all knds of silly ideas , such as, the kingdom is in abeyance, God wants to restore bloody animal sacrfices, apostasy is inevitable,,,
Gag!But for the Church intercalation -- which was wholly unforeseen and is wholly unrelated to any divine purpose which precedes it or which follows it. In fact, the new, hitherto unrevealed purpose of God in the outcalling of a heavenly people from Jews and Gentiles is so divergent with respect to the divine purpose toward Israel, which purpose preceded it and will yet follow it, that the term parenthetical, commonly employed to describe the new age-purpose, is inaccurate. A parenthetical portion sustains some direct or indirect relation to that which goes before or that which follows; but the present age-purpose is not thus related and therefore is more properly termed an intercalation" (Chafer, Systematic Theology, 4:41; 5:348-349).
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by Adstar Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:51 am
KingdomSeeker wrote:Oooo I Got ONE. Its Ironic too.(considering the title of the thread here..and room...)
2 Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,"
So what some have done...is this:
646 apostasia {ap-os-tas-ee'-ah}
feminine of the same as 647; TDNT - 1:513,88; n f
AV - to forsake + 575 1, falling away 1; 2
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy
647 apostasion {ap-os-tas'-ee-on}
neuter of a (presumed) adj. from a derivative of 868;; n n
AV - divorcement 2, writing of divorcement 1; 3
1) divorce, repudiation
2) a bill of divorce
575 apo {apo'}
a primary particle;; preposition
AV - from 393, of 129, out of 48, for 10, off 10, by 9, at 9,
in 6, since + 3739 5, on 5, not tr. 16, misc. 31; 671
1) of separation
1a) of local separation, after verbs of motion from a place
i.e. of departing, of fleeing, ...
1b) of separation of a part from the whole
1b1) where of a whole some part is taken
1c) of any kind of separation of one thing from another by
which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed
1d) of a state of separation, that is of distance
1d1) physical, of distance of place
1d2) temporal, of distance of time
2) of origin
2a) of the place whence anything is, comes, befalls, is taken
2b) of origin of a cause
They Say that Paul is actually saying that Apostasy is not a breaking away of the faith....but a Departure...a RAPTURE..of the church.
Now, i used to beleive in a pre-trib rapture/dispensationalism..up until well, pretty recently...several months ago...But i NEVER heard this before...it made me think...and re-think even...Not change my mind...but truly ....this is WEIRD to me....
I even almost believed it...up untill I saw this:
"The scriptures about taken and left; those left are abandoned & forsaken, and will descend into apostasy during the seven year tribulation. "
I was like...hey...wait...you cant do that...go through all that work to show that the word means something...and though its pushing it...i see that you are correct...but then you just refute all evidence...by using it to mean a falling away from the faith!!
So to these people...the Apostasia is comming. Which will result in Apostasia. ...
Heres the rest of the "Study"...actually...aside from being a vain attempt to prove themsleves correct...its actually a pretty good little study in the greek:
http://www.bibleprophesy.org/apostasia.htm
Yeah i have come across that "falling away" = Rapture in a few discussions i have had with pre-tribbers. My eyes nearly rolled out of the back of my head when i first heard it.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by old_tractor Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:29 am
The most apostate thing I've ever heard from a so-called Christian? That's easy...about twenty years ago, I was a member of a Methodist church in a small town here in Indiana. The ministers we had were older gentlemen who were true Christians.
The time came when our church leaders had to find a new pastor for our church due to retirement of the minister at that time. The new one - a younger man - told us in his first sermon that Jesus really didn't feed the five thousand. He didn't have a "magic piece of bread" that he gave to everyone. Instead, Jesus was able to convince those who had food to share with others and that was the true miracle.
I resigned my membership in that church and, since that day, I have not stepped inside a Methodist church.
The time came when our church leaders had to find a new pastor for our church due to retirement of the minister at that time. The new one - a younger man - told us in his first sermon that Jesus really didn't feed the five thousand. He didn't have a "magic piece of bread" that he gave to everyone. Instead, Jesus was able to convince those who had food to share with others and that was the true miracle.
I resigned my membership in that church and, since that day, I have not stepped inside a Methodist church.
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by strangelove Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:11 am
old_tractor wrote:The most apostate thing I've ever heard from a so-called Christian? That's easy...about twenty years ago, I was a member of a Methodist church in a small town here in Indiana. The ministers we had were older gentlemen who were true Christians.
The time came when our church leaders had to find a new pastor for our church due to retirement of the minister at that time. The new one - a younger man - told us in his first sermon that Jesus really didn't feed the five thousand. He didn't have a "magic piece of bread" that he gave to everyone. Instead, Jesus was able to convince those who had food to share with others and that was the true miracle.
I resigned my membership in that church and, since that day, I have not stepped inside a Methodist church.
LOL! Maybe Jesus just convinced people that a blind man could see??
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by strangelove Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:41 pm
The remnant of Israel will consist of the dead who will be resurrected..but only into flesh
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by strangelove Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:05 pm
This ones a corker:
"I am free to interpret scripture in any way I see fit...until it conflicts with the teachings of Holy Mother Church. She is the final authority and I "humble myself" to Jesus' Church. On this we will part and lose our common ground. I understand that this can come across as arrogant in our discussion. True ecumenism is achieved when a non Catholic comes in to the fullness of Christianity present in Holy Mother Church."
"I am free to interpret scripture in any way I see fit...until it conflicts with the teachings of Holy Mother Church. She is the final authority and I "humble myself" to Jesus' Church. On this we will part and lose our common ground. I understand that this can come across as arrogant in our discussion. True ecumenism is achieved when a non Catholic comes in to the fullness of Christianity present in Holy Mother Church."
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by Son of Israel Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:22 pm
The single most apostate unholy publication that exists by far, is the Scofield refernce Bible.
It is the bastard son of McDonald/Campbellites/Wesleyan/jewish workers of iniquity.
It is the most singular and world wide influential source of this century's explosion of Hal Linsey type dispensationalism there is. hal Linsey being just one of the demons of thousands upon thousands of false prophets who've bitten off and swallowed the "futurism" stuff.
It is where the ideas of a future "millenium" and "rapture" and "tribulation" and all that crap came from.
It declares war on the seed of the woman in the wilderness, seeking to wash her away with the flood of false prophecies spewing forth from the mouth of the dragon.
That's my vote.
It is the bastard son of McDonald/Campbellites/Wesleyan/jewish workers of iniquity.
It is the most singular and world wide influential source of this century's explosion of Hal Linsey type dispensationalism there is. hal Linsey being just one of the demons of thousands upon thousands of false prophets who've bitten off and swallowed the "futurism" stuff.
It is where the ideas of a future "millenium" and "rapture" and "tribulation" and all that crap came from.
It declares war on the seed of the woman in the wilderness, seeking to wash her away with the flood of false prophecies spewing forth from the mouth of the dragon.
That's my vote.
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There are many but all Gods lead to the same place.
by bblessedtoday Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:57 am
It doesnt even make sense but how can all gods and religions lead to the same place? Even with common sense this doesnt work. It makes me have a puzzled face at the amount of people who actually think this. I do like to enter Yahoo chat rooms and Ive seen so many things but there are things that pop up over and over and I am not in the majority with my conservative views about God. I'm called a "fundie" and even today, Im not joking, I asked someone if they read the bible and he got upset with me and proudly said, "Im a liberal Christian and I think I smell some judgement comming from you." I just asked if he reads the bible, I was just trying to make friendly conversation and I wanted to know if he wanted to read a little with me. The bible offends people! Many people are falling away from the truth, this is true, the connect the dot bible prophesies are making a clear picture that we are in end times. There are many apostate ideas but I think the one that is the most popular and the one that bothers me the most is that all religions lead to the same place and even Allah of the Arabs is the same as Jehovah God of the bible. The Christians are buying it and are confused who God really is... so much deception.
Leah
http://bblessedtoday.blogspot.com
Leah
http://bblessedtoday.blogspot.com
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by strangelove Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:58 am
bblessedtoday wrote:It doesnt even make sense but how can all gods and religions lead to the same place? Even with common sense this doesnt work. It makes me have a puzzled face at the amount of people who actually think this. I do like to enter Yahoo chat rooms and Ive seen so many things but there are things that pop up over and over and I am not in the majority with my conservative views about God. I'm called a "fundie" and even today, Im not joking, I asked someone if they read the bible and he got upset with me and proudly said, "Im a liberal Christian and I think I smell some judgement comming from you." I just asked if he reads the bible, I was just trying to make friendly conversation and I wanted to know if he wanted to read a little with me. The bible offends people! Many people are falling away from the truth, this is true, the connect the dot bible prophesies are making a clear picture that we are in end times. There are many apostate ideas but I think the one that is the most popular and the one that bothers me the most is that all religions lead to the same place and even Allah of the Arabs is the same as Jehovah God of the bible. The Christians are buying it and are confused who God really is... so much deception.
Leah
I agree Leah. Christians who believe in the Bible as the true and perfect Word of God get called all kinds of names by others who's faith is lukewarm. Indeed the Word of God and the true faith is an offence and a stumbling block to many.
(1 Peter 2:6) Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
(1 Peter 2:7) Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
(1 Peter 2:8) And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
(1 Peter 2:9) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
(1 Peter 2:10) Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
Interesting also we notice in V.2:8 that God MADE them that way. Interesting.
I had a quick look at your blog Leah. BEAUTIFULLY designed!
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by jerry Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:55 am
http://my.news.yahoo.com/metal-books-found-jordan-cave-could-change-view-20110329-234814-336.html
Has enyone researched this?
Has enyone researched this?
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by strangelove Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:33 am
jerry wrote:http://my.news.yahoo.com/metal-books-found-jordan-cave-could-change-view-20110329-234814-336.html
Has enyone researched this?
Well, if the dead sea scrolls are anything to go by...we'll never get to see whats inside.
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by Consumed Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:55 am
That's Jesus while he was in the hands of the Romans being scourged and such was gang raped by the Romans since homosexuality was nothing to them. The guy preaching was giving the sermon on how Jesus can relate to every kind of hurt and pain we go thru having physically gone thru it.
The "pastor", who was a guest speaker, was politely told to stop preaching and led from the pulpit.
Never went back to that church, how did they let him in to start with
The "pastor", who was a guest speaker, was politely told to stop preaching and led from the pulpit.
Never went back to that church, how did they let him in to start with
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by zone Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:22 pm
Jesus did not obey for us or take our wrath or punishment on the cross, He came to free mankind from the bondages of sin, once and for all not gradually, not in steps, and not provisionally, but practically.
...................
1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
And he is the propitiation for our sins - The word rendered "propitiation" (ἱλασμός hilasmos) occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, except in 1 John 4:10 of this Epistle; though words of the same derivation, and having the same essential meaning, frequently occur. The corresponding word ἱλαστήριον hilastērion occurs in Romans 3:25, rendered "propitiation" - "whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood;" and in Hebrews 9:5, rendered mercy-seat - "shadowing the mercy-seat." The verb ἱλάσκομαι hilaskomai occurs also in Luke 18:3 - God be merciful to me a sinner;" and Hebrews 2:17 - "to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." For the idea expressed by these words, see the notes at Romans 3:25. The proper meaning of the word is that of reconciling, appeasing, turning away anger, rendering propitious or favorable. The idea is, that there is anger or wrath, or that something has been done to offend, and that it is needful to turn away that wrath, or to appease.
...................
1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
And he is the propitiation for our sins - The word rendered "propitiation" (ἱλασμός hilasmos) occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, except in 1 John 4:10 of this Epistle; though words of the same derivation, and having the same essential meaning, frequently occur. The corresponding word ἱλαστήριον hilastērion occurs in Romans 3:25, rendered "propitiation" - "whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood;" and in Hebrews 9:5, rendered mercy-seat - "shadowing the mercy-seat." The verb ἱλάσκομαι hilaskomai occurs also in Luke 18:3 - God be merciful to me a sinner;" and Hebrews 2:17 - "to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." For the idea expressed by these words, see the notes at Romans 3:25. The proper meaning of the word is that of reconciling, appeasing, turning away anger, rendering propitious or favorable. The idea is, that there is anger or wrath, or that something has been done to offend, and that it is needful to turn away that wrath, or to appease.
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by unclefester Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:51 am
" I haven't sinned since I've been saved " 
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by zone Fri May 11, 2012 1:31 pm
"I'm just tired of seeing denominationalism every way I turn. I mean, if salvation depends on the formula by which we believe, Heaven's gonna be a dang empty place, because the only one who's gonna have the formula RIGHT is Christ Himself! There's gonna be Protestants in Heaven, and Catholics, and Orthodox, and Mormons, and probably even a few Muslims that strayed a little too close to Issa.
Salvation is not built upon perfect doctrine, nor even on PROPER doctrine---it's built upon Christ, and our relationship with Him. Only HE can say whether or not we pass the test, and even the ol' mossybacks of the faith don't have a 100% indisputable litmus for what constitutes a passing grade. Even the most intuitive, most discerning third-party saint is still on the outside looking in."
.............
Acts 16
29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
Salvation is not built upon perfect doctrine, nor even on PROPER doctrine---it's built upon Christ, and our relationship with Him. Only HE can say whether or not we pass the test, and even the ol' mossybacks of the faith don't have a 100% indisputable litmus for what constitutes a passing grade. Even the most intuitive, most discerning third-party saint is still on the outside looking in."
.............
Acts 16
29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by zone Fri May 25, 2012 10:40 pm
this isn't THE most apostate thing i've heard...but check it out:roll:
"Imputed Righteousness is not nor has ever been a license to sin. However, imputed righteousness (ie. the Holy Spirit Himself) is the means through which God delivers us from our sinfulness."
i wish people who reject Imputed Righteousness would just leave it alone.
this guy teaches the RC INFUSED RIGHTEOUSNESS dogma.
he's a finneyite and a continuationist (super-Charis) so whatcha gonna do? he makes me krazy! LOL.
a bag of doctrines from every cult going and blending in orthodoxy when he senses he's gone too far or has been caught waxing eloquent on matters he doesn't know about.
Infused righteousness refers to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Justification, i.e. right standing before God. Within the Roman Catholic view, Justification is seen as a "process" as contrasted to the Protestant view of a moment-in-time forensic declaration by God that the sinner is righteous.^[1]^ The instrumental cause of infused righteousness are the sacraments of baptism and penance^[2]^, where as the instrumental cause of imputed righteousness is faith.^[3]^ Roman Catholicism maintains that the righteousness of the saints and of Christ is gradually "infused" into the believer through the sacraments. For the Catholic, infused righteousness either gradually dissipates as the believer takes part in worldly sins or is enhanced by good works. If the believer dies without having the fullness of righteousness, coming in part from the last rites, he or she will temporarily spend time in purgatory until the sinful status is purged from his or her record.
For the Roman Catholic, the believer is made righteous by cooperating with God's grace. For the Protestant, the believer is declared righteous when he comes to faith, based on the righteousness of Christ credited (imputed) to him.
theopedia
"Imputed Righteousness is not nor has ever been a license to sin. However, imputed righteousness (ie. the Holy Spirit Himself) is the means through which God delivers us from our sinfulness."
i wish people who reject Imputed Righteousness would just leave it alone.
this guy teaches the RC INFUSED RIGHTEOUSNESS dogma.
he's a finneyite and a continuationist (super-Charis) so whatcha gonna do? he makes me krazy! LOL.
a bag of doctrines from every cult going and blending in orthodoxy when he senses he's gone too far or has been caught waxing eloquent on matters he doesn't know about.
Infused righteousness refers to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Justification, i.e. right standing before God. Within the Roman Catholic view, Justification is seen as a "process" as contrasted to the Protestant view of a moment-in-time forensic declaration by God that the sinner is righteous.^[1]^ The instrumental cause of infused righteousness are the sacraments of baptism and penance^[2]^, where as the instrumental cause of imputed righteousness is faith.^[3]^ Roman Catholicism maintains that the righteousness of the saints and of Christ is gradually "infused" into the believer through the sacraments. For the Catholic, infused righteousness either gradually dissipates as the believer takes part in worldly sins or is enhanced by good works. If the believer dies without having the fullness of righteousness, coming in part from the last rites, he or she will temporarily spend time in purgatory until the sinful status is purged from his or her record.
For the Roman Catholic, the believer is made righteous by cooperating with God's grace. For the Protestant, the believer is declared righteous when he comes to faith, based on the righteousness of Christ credited (imputed) to him.
theopedia
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by zone Sun May 27, 2012 11:21 pm
"We shouldn’t become entrenched in legalism. There are two things we have to do:
Quote:
[34] But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sad'ducees, they came together.
[35] And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:34-40 RSV
Love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves, and we will do just fine."
.....................
OMG
*face palm*
it doesn't get any more LEGAL than that.
that's THE LAW!
why? why won't people read that passage in context, see who Jesus is talkiing to and what He is REALLY SAYING!
and please...please stop teaching it as THE GOSPEL!
ITS THE LAW!!!!!
Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
here's the passage in context - POINTING TO CHRIST WHO DID INDEED FULFILL THOSE COMMANDMENTS AND THE WHOLE LAW....the ONLY one without sin, the Only One Who did all the works of the Law perfectly, and yet the Only Righteous One Who was MADE to be sin FOR US.....and CURSED, hanged on a tree....for us.
Galatians 3
Faith or Observance of the Law
1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
6Consider Abraham: “He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a 7Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”b 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”c 11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”d 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.”e 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”f 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
Quote:
[34] But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sad'ducees, they came together.
[35] And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:34-40 RSV
Love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves, and we will do just fine."
.....................
OMG
*face palm*
it doesn't get any more LEGAL than that.
that's THE LAW!
why? why won't people read that passage in context, see who Jesus is talkiing to and what He is REALLY SAYING!
and please...please stop teaching it as THE GOSPEL!
ITS THE LAW!!!!!
Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
here's the passage in context - POINTING TO CHRIST WHO DID INDEED FULFILL THOSE COMMANDMENTS AND THE WHOLE LAW....the ONLY one without sin, the Only One Who did all the works of the Law perfectly, and yet the Only Righteous One Who was MADE to be sin FOR US.....and CURSED, hanged on a tree....for us.
Galatians 3
Faith or Observance of the Law
1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
6Consider Abraham: “He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a 7Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”b 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”c 11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”d 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.”e 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”f 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by PneumaPsucheSoma Mon May 28, 2012 4:07 am
"Tithing is the New Testament standard of giving, confirmed in and from Malachi."
(Often on Stewardship Sundays.)
(Often on Stewardship Sundays.)
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by zone Mon May 28, 2012 2:28 pm
PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:"Tithing is the New Testament standard of giving, confirmed in and from Malachi."
(Often on Stewardship Sundays.)
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by SarahM777 Thu May 30, 2013 8:40 pm
PneumaPsucheSoma wrote:"Tithing is the New Testament standard of giving, confirmed in and from Malachi."
(Often on Stewardship Sundays.)
I wonder what a pastor would do if someone actually tithed the same way they did in the old?
Farmer: Pastor,I was really moved by your sermon on tithing and I really believe that I am suppose to do it.
Pastor: Well Praise the Lord I am so glad you saw the light.
Farmer: Well Pastor I am not so sure those the board of trustees are really gonna want it.
Pastor: Of course they will it is the tithe after all.
Farmer: Well I sure hope you have the storehouse ready.
Pastor:What do we need a storehouse for?
Farmer: Trust me,wait till you see what's in the truck and trailer.
Pastor: Truck and Trailer?
Farmer: I did follow what the old testament tithe was.
Pastor: Well then what's the problem?
Farmer: Well,there is one cow,two goats,one mule,a flock of chickens,50 lbs of spinich,two bushels of turnips,100 lbs of rutabagas,and a whole of lot okra. (Bumper crops you know) So I sure hope you have the place to store it before it goes bad.
UMM If I remember correctly the tithe at that time was produce and livestock,not money
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by PneumaPsucheSoma Fri May 31, 2013 6:25 pm
Forbidden to be money (except as exchange for goods to money and back to goods via the money changers in the temple; or for certain tithes instructed to be converted to money and spent in celebration).
Forbidden to ever change, under penalty of curse.
Required partaking with a Levitical Priest.
Tithing was part of a Theocracy, and applied to a Promised Land that was freely bestowed upon them by the grace of God's unmerited favor. It was the first-fruits of the land already flowing with milk and honey that they didn't cultivate, just as they didn't build the cities which were freely given into their hands by their faith in going to battle at God's command.
It was all typological of Jesus Christ. He is the Promised Land. God provided the dust of the ground as our provision of salvation by His Logos being embodied in flesh, born of a woman. Everything was to show HIM as the first fruits that were to be of the yield of God's grace in total provision that we didn't and couldn't earn.
No money. No changing. No Levitical Priesthood. The tithe was fulfilled in Christ, just as the Law was fulfilled in Christ.
The New Testament standard is cheerful giving of the heart, led by the Holy Spirit which we should not quench. And the idea of "income" being our gross intake is a purely humanistic concept of usury from fractional reserve banking and taxation.
It was the IRS that defined income using the term income, and to insist on it as the means of taxing total gross receipt. It isn't about the first and best of something that was provided. It's a concept of extracting from earnings. Earnings have nothing to do with net income. And earning has nothing to do with relecting the grace of God illustrated in tithing as the forerunner to the Gospel and Jesus Christ fulfilling ALL.
So even the conceptual foundation of WHAT to tithe on is fallacious. Income is NOT gross receipts of earnings. That's a formulation for usury. So tithing is ridiculous 100 ways from Sunday. It doesn't even reach UP to qualify for legalism. It demeans the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
And none of this is an excuse to not give. Giving has nothing to do with tithing, and should be a matter of one's faith and relationship. No minimums, no maximums, and no indexes. Give as has been given to you. That seldom produces a stingy attitude.
And notice the only time an outraged Savior is recorded as going all FUBAR on anyone in scripture. His scourging of the money changers is strong evidence of how much God hates dishonest weights and measures of usury. And that was when there WAS a valid Theocratic tithe before the New Covenant of fulfillment by our God and Savior.
No thanks on the curse of tithing. I'll just adhere to the New Testament standard of giving.
Forbidden to ever change, under penalty of curse.
Required partaking with a Levitical Priest.
Tithing was part of a Theocracy, and applied to a Promised Land that was freely bestowed upon them by the grace of God's unmerited favor. It was the first-fruits of the land already flowing with milk and honey that they didn't cultivate, just as they didn't build the cities which were freely given into their hands by their faith in going to battle at God's command.
It was all typological of Jesus Christ. He is the Promised Land. God provided the dust of the ground as our provision of salvation by His Logos being embodied in flesh, born of a woman. Everything was to show HIM as the first fruits that were to be of the yield of God's grace in total provision that we didn't and couldn't earn.
No money. No changing. No Levitical Priesthood. The tithe was fulfilled in Christ, just as the Law was fulfilled in Christ.
The New Testament standard is cheerful giving of the heart, led by the Holy Spirit which we should not quench. And the idea of "income" being our gross intake is a purely humanistic concept of usury from fractional reserve banking and taxation.
It was the IRS that defined income using the term income, and to insist on it as the means of taxing total gross receipt. It isn't about the first and best of something that was provided. It's a concept of extracting from earnings. Earnings have nothing to do with net income. And earning has nothing to do with relecting the grace of God illustrated in tithing as the forerunner to the Gospel and Jesus Christ fulfilling ALL.
So even the conceptual foundation of WHAT to tithe on is fallacious. Income is NOT gross receipts of earnings. That's a formulation for usury. So tithing is ridiculous 100 ways from Sunday. It doesn't even reach UP to qualify for legalism. It demeans the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
And none of this is an excuse to not give. Giving has nothing to do with tithing, and should be a matter of one's faith and relationship. No minimums, no maximums, and no indexes. Give as has been given to you. That seldom produces a stingy attitude.
And notice the only time an outraged Savior is recorded as going all FUBAR on anyone in scripture. His scourging of the money changers is strong evidence of how much God hates dishonest weights and measures of usury. And that was when there WAS a valid Theocratic tithe before the New Covenant of fulfillment by our God and Savior.
No thanks on the curse of tithing. I'll just adhere to the New Testament standard of giving.
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Re: Whats the most Apostate thing You've Heard from a Christian?
by zone Fri May 31, 2013 11:34 pm
http://revisionisthistorystore.blogspot.ca/2010/03/michael-hoffmans-online-revisionist.html
For most of the first 1500 years of Christianity usury, the lending of money at interest, was unanimously condemned by the Fathers of the Early Church, and by popes, councils and saints, as a damnable sin equivalent to robbery and even murder. Any interest on loans of money, not just “exorbitant” interest, was defined de fide as a grave transgression against God and man.
This pioneering study of the rise of the Money Power in Christendom confronts the reader with a startling datum: the overthrow of magisterial dogma and the approval of scripture-twisting heresy occurred inside the Church centuries before the Enlightenment and the dawn of the modern era, culminating in the overthrow of divine truth; an epochal act of nullification
.
Usury in Christendom resurrects the suppressed biblical, patristic and medieval Catholic doctrine on interest on money, provides new information on the record of early Protestant resistance to the usury revolution, and the discernment, by Dante and other visionaries, of usury’s sub-rosa connection to a host of abominations that continue to plague us today.
Western civilization was profoundly disfigured by the exculpation of the charging of interest on debt. The result has been a pursuit of usurious profit unconstrained by the Word of God, the dogma of His true Church, and the consensus patrum of fifteen centuries.
Hoffman's history of how a den of thieves robbed the followers of Christ of their patrimony is grounded in an extensive study of rare and primary sources, and represents a landmark revisionist history of how the breeders of money gained dominion over the West.
For most of the first 1500 years of Christianity usury, the lending of money at interest, was unanimously condemned by the Fathers of the Early Church, and by popes, councils and saints, as a damnable sin equivalent to robbery and even murder. Any interest on loans of money, not just “exorbitant” interest, was defined de fide as a grave transgression against God and man.
This pioneering study of the rise of the Money Power in Christendom confronts the reader with a startling datum: the overthrow of magisterial dogma and the approval of scripture-twisting heresy occurred inside the Church centuries before the Enlightenment and the dawn of the modern era, culminating in the overthrow of divine truth; an epochal act of nullification
.
Usury in Christendom resurrects the suppressed biblical, patristic and medieval Catholic doctrine on interest on money, provides new information on the record of early Protestant resistance to the usury revolution, and the discernment, by Dante and other visionaries, of usury’s sub-rosa connection to a host of abominations that continue to plague us today.
Western civilization was profoundly disfigured by the exculpation of the charging of interest on debt. The result has been a pursuit of usurious profit unconstrained by the Word of God, the dogma of His true Church, and the consensus patrum of fifteen centuries.
Hoffman's history of how a den of thieves robbed the followers of Christ of their patrimony is grounded in an extensive study of rare and primary sources, and represents a landmark revisionist history of how the breeders of money gained dominion over the West.
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